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Comment by throwaway8481 | Hacker News Reader

I think the opposite side of this coin is that the company should clearly define the minimum lifetime of the product and it support, including what services they will provide upon its sunset (such as a partial refund and disposal if the product folds before that date). I want to make an informed decision, and like you I would shop for another product beyond this crap we subscribe to.

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The Elkjop electrical goods store in Norway supplies an environmental impact statement which often includes the manufacturer's estimate of the lifetime. For instance the Ankarsrum Assistent (successor to the classic Electrolux Assistent) kitchen machine it's 30 years with spare parts available for 12 years.

https://www.elkjop.no/product/hjem-rengjoring-og-kjokkenutst...

Unfortunately for electronic items the lifetime and spares information is usually blank because the manufacturer doesn't supply it.

Off-topic, but I've got an Ankarsrum Assistent (in the US). It's a ridiculously good machine. Much better design IMO than the KitchenAid stand mixer. The rotating bowl means adding ingredients doesn't require stopping the mixer & lifting the head, you can just pour things in.

>including what services they will provide upon its sunset (such as a partial refund and disposal if the product folds before that date)

This might be OK for a huge company like Google, but for many others, what good is it? If the product folds, it's probably because the whole company folded, and when that happens, you're not getting a refund, regardless of what any contract says.

Why people like me buy iphones? Not because they've got the best hardware or have the best camera or the best apps (though they're pretty damn good at those), not because they are open for hackers (they're basically the worst), but because the manufacturer provides de facto support for at least 5 years after release. My kids all have iPhone 8s and they still get security iOS updates.

Did they promise that anywhere? No. Did they kept on their unwritten and unspoken promise? Yes, for years now. Do you have to be Apple to do this? I don't know, would love it if the answer was no, but looks like everyone else treats this as cost and Apple treats it as value added?

I mean that's fine? If you still exist then your obligations remain. Maybe we will have some sort of "digital rights bankruptcy"

Defining minimum support period is already required by law in UK and will also be mandatory in EU as of next year.

This is the same problem as packaging. I think we should have a designated escrow service for the disposal costs of packaging that is taken off the front end, similar to the pension benefit guarantee corporation.

Imagine if there were a product support guarantee corporation which took, say, 4% of the cost of retail electronics sales, in order to guarantee their long term support.

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