The Roman siege of Masada lasted just a few weeks, not several years
phys.org
phys.org
I find this sort of statement very odd in what otherwise sounds like a lightweight but timeless telling of what they've found.
> I find this sort of statement very odd in what otherwise sounds like a lightweight but timeless telling of what they've found.
Correct. Times of Israel [1] shares some other quotes and connects this particular purpose statement not to the research but to the response:
> Since the study results were publicized last week, there have been hundreds of “interesting reactions” on Hebrew social media and news sites, Stiebel said. [...] “It is interesting how personally people take this. These are events that happened 2,000 years ago! Masada is a kind of mirror into Israeli society – how we look at Masada shows a lot of the political and social changes society has undergone.”
Where the quote in question is in the [...] above, with some other remarks.
So the comment that this is part of “Israeli DNA and the Zionist ethos” I think is not meant to necessarily denigrate those ideas, but just to comment on the fact that stories are important, we take them as part of our identity, these research results don’t have to threaten the soul of the narrative (i.e. there's no claim that the siege didn't happen or wasn't brutal or didn't last longer than expected), but you do have these kinds of nationalist conservative factions who register even the slightest tweaks to their internal narratives (3 years to 3 months) as personal attacks on their own identities. He's just labeling the group that is most prone to this, but I don't think he means the labeling to be pejorative. (Roughly the Christian equivalent is that I know a lot of folks who use “fundamentalist” and esp “fundie” as pejorative, but I also know a bunch of Christians who bear that title proudly.)
[1]: https://www.timesofisrael.com/masada-legend-upended-the-roma...
zionism is the belief that the jews have the right to live in their ancestral homeland (ancient judea), which is not at the expense of anyone else.
any jew that's gone on birthright visits Masada, it's a right of passage. the vast majority of jews around the world are zionist and believe israel is the original homeland of jews, which historically is true.
now if there's an argument to be made that there should be no religious centric nations, well then we should hold the christian and muslim majority states to the same standard, no?
I think that's the contentious part, as the establishment of modern Isreal has come at great expense to many others- I don't think their religious nature in and of itself is much of an issue with most of their critics. Though I'm not sure that's what the original commenter was implying
However, not all left; those who remained within the borders of what became Israel after 1948 were granted citizenship.
If you're referring to the Nakba, Palestinian Arabs were instructed by their own leadership or neighboring Arab states to leave their homes temporarily to facilitate military operations against the newly declared state of Israel.
The displacement of Palestinians was a consequence of war, not solely a deliberate act by Jewish forces
This is a myth. Vast majority of left at gunpoint. Please read about operation Dalet and histories of that era by the “new historians” eg Benny Morris, Ilan pappe, etc.
Sometimes the mob wants to buy up real estate. And if people are willing to sell, it's just a transaction with varying shades of exploitation (knowing that it will be worth more when they resell).
But if those people don't want to sell, the mob doesn't just offer larger sums. There are then elements of intimidation. Strange cars drive past your home at night. You see big ugly men staring at you in a menacing fashion when you're out in public, then they wave and walk away. Bricks through windows. Anonymous threats of grave harm or murder. The escalation is constant. Anyone who sells at that point knows better than to start blabbing that they did so only because their lives were in danger... the people who extorted them don't much like being in the news even after the fact.
But that's the mob. I'm sure it was different in the first half of the 20th century in the place now known as Israel.
Somewhat dubious.
why do you believe zionism is at the expense of other religions?
If you were an actual concerned taxpayer, you'd want to understand what America gets in response from 24b - what do we get?
Israel is America's strongest partner in the ME your belief that it's a one-sided relationship is ridiculous.
the anti-Israel bias on HN is absurd.
I'm also disapointed that the posts for this submission were immediately mired in politics (due to one off-hand remark in the article) instead of discussing the history of this siege or even the fascinating life of Josephus, but I guess I shouldn't complain if I'm part of the problem
The ability to retake a small shred of moral high ground, I guess, given its role in turning Afghanistan in to a failed state.
I actually agree with the second part of this sentence, but it is worth explaining what this means in a material sense.
https://www.israel21c.org/made-in-israel-the-top-64-innovati...
Romans: Git 'er done.