Tempted by the Dark Side, I now have a Commodore 128 | Hacker News Reader

Tempted by the Dark Side, I now have a Commodore 128

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66 pointsrbanffy22 comments

"I knew the Commodore 128 was released in 1985 as a sort of bridge between the Commodore 64 and Amiga ..."

That may have been Commodore's intention, I don't know, but technically the C128 is merely a modest step from the C64 and very far from the Amiga in every way. All the same the C128 offers a lot to explore, whether you run it as a C64 or as a C128, and I wish you lots of fun with it!

I remember drooling over one and the Plus/4 in the store at the time. Didn’t realize they were mostly smaller C64s with double the RAM. But compared to my ancient Vic-20 (C-5? :-) it was very advanced. So it did cp/m as well? Oh well, had no money for software anyway.

I (VIC-20 owner) drooled over the C128, too. 80 columns! Mo memory!

Then I realized I could get an Atari ST with 512KB of RAM, 68000, 3.5" drive, mono monitor for the same price. The C128 made no sense, price wise.

So I followed Tramiel over to his new venture, too.

The Plus/4 had 64KB but absolutely no software available, because it wasn't C-64 compatible... at least the C128 has a C64 mode.

It’s odd that the C128 had the same kind of C64 mode that the Apple /// was so criticised for - it could emulate an absolutely unimproved C64 despite being able to run twice as fast as its predecessor.

I really wanted a C128, but now that I know more about it, it feels like a meh computer. It’s kind of Commodore’s “C64gs” but without the 16-bit processor and with a Z80 for CP/M.

In retrospect, the Plus 4 looks like a much more interesting computer, with great graphics at the price of minimal sound.

It strikes me as odd that Commodore developed the TED without an 80-column text mode or that the C128 80-column mode couldn’t be overlaid on top of the VIC2’s output. Those would be small changes that could mean a lot of other applications for both computers.

I'm surprised some of the C64s still work. I had to return mine (for exchange) many times. I remember seeing huge signs at the return counter that said "NO RETURNS ON COMMODORE EQUIPMENT". As a kid it didn't set off any alarm bells. But apparently quality wasn't a goal at all. I remember seeing a talk by a former employee where he saw a stack of C64s and a sign that said "bad". He walked by the same spot a little later and someone had shipped them. Apparently the 1541 drives were even worse. I could never find one to buy, as anytime they were in stock people would bring theirs back for exchange, so not a lot of motivation for stores to stock them.

MOS chips are notorious among system restorers even today. Commodore's power supply design that made the most common failure mode one that increased the voltage output so it fried the attached machine is another stellar design decision.

That said, Commodore sold a ton of hardware in the 80s. There is a cottage industry around getting C64s up and running again, and since they're so plentiful and well known it's almost always possible to fix them. There are replacement chips for everything on the board, even the weirdo custom stuff like the PLAs. Everything on the C64 has been reverse engineered and well documented.

And with the whole industry around small ARM microcontrollers, you can get a small 64-bit RISC computer with more memory than any C64 that emulates a dozen different variations of an audio chip.

> I'm surprised some of the C64s still work.

The C64 PSU are notoriously flimsy but the C128 PSU is known to be exceptionally good (and not to be mistaken for an Amiga 500 PSU: physically they look the same but the pinouts are different and shall fry your machine!).

My C128 (the one I had back when I was a kid) still worked last time I tried it: during the Covid 2020 lockdown.

Not only it still worked, with the sound and everything, about 2/3rd of my 5"1/4 floppy disks were still working too (I know that that won't last though).

Obviously the disk drive was still working (a 1570 in my case, a weird hybrid between a 1541 and a 1571).

>The C64 PSU are notoriously flimsy

Gross understatement. They should not be used under any circumstances, as the design is not safe.

Left alone C64 PSUs will fry C64 after C64 with high voltage until someone puts a stop to this by destroying the PSU (knife to the wires).

First of all, the later "short board" models (including C64C, most popular in Europe) run much cooler, which makes them less prone to failure. Second - we got pretty good[1] at fixing the faults.

[1] https://www.pictorial64.com/

It's likely the actual problem you had was with the epoxy-encased "wedge" PSU model. Most of them have lasted fine through decades of use but there were some batches that kept giving people problems.

Growing up, I used to get 321-contact magazine. They had computer programs that could be copied over for Commodore, Atari and IBM.

I sat with a friend for hours on a Atari, but could not get the thing to run. (I guess it wasn't too traumatic, as I have since written programs with millions of users.)

The best looking programs were always for Commodore, but my parents wouldn't dream of it. Sure is nostalgic.

I assumed this would a Spectrum user. How wrong I was: don't remember any Atari machines from that 80s 8-bit generation.

The Atari 8-bits were introduced in 1979 and were moderately popular in the early 1980s at least in the US because they had considerably better graphics and sound than their competitors. This was due to (unlike most other early 8-bits) they used custom chips similar to those later used in the Amiga -- and in fact one of the primary engineers for the Atari 8-bits was Jay Miner, who also played a big role in the Amiga.

Ah, it may never have reached the UK. Conversely you've probably never heard of the Oric-1 or Dragon 32. The 8 bit boom was quite a time.

I had one friend in the UK who had an Atari 8-bit computer and I remember being awed by a game I'd never seen anywhere else and only worked out what it was many years later, in the internet days - Rescue on Fractalus.

It certainly blew the socks off anything my Acorn Electron was capable of... .

It's always fun to see young industries where there are dozens of different competitors all vying to be the one that wins in the end. So many wacky designs that ultimately don't survive.

That said, times like this are also a nightmare for third party people like software developers, accessory developers, administrators, etc... who all have to design their stuff to work on only a portion of the market or put loads of development effort into porting to more of the platforms. It is no wonder that the natural state is for most of the competitors to die off and for users to rally behind either one platform or one standard.

In Belgium, before my C128, I had an Atari 600 XL. Very good looking 8-bit Atari machine. And some Dragon 32 were to be found in Belgium too.

I don't think the Atari 600 XL and 800 XL somehow made it to France, Belgium, etc. but not to the UK.

As an American I love hearing all about machines that we completely missed from overseas. Little parallel universes to learn about and experience. (Helps that a lot of my favorite retro gaming YouTubers are British, too. ;))

Atari missed the 1982 Christmas season with their cost-reduced XL models that were potentially competitive with the C64. The 8-bit line never recovered from that.

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