Alcohol is one of the most boring psychoactive experiences there is, it's the safest, the most predictable and the most repeatable. There's nothing challenging about it - happy drunks are going to be happy drunks, angry/emotional drunks are going to be angry/emotional drunks, people who use the context of alcohol to excuse behaviors that they feel they would otherwise be judged for (promiscuity, "I love you guys! no I really do!", etc. etc.) are doing just that. The only drug with more predictability than alcohol is caffeine, with the common opiates being next in line for being absolutely predictable - do X get Y.
Alcohol is boring. Even pot or tobacco are more interesting, but they lack the social context that provides behavioral permissibility which is really what drives the ritual-lite use - going drinking on the weekend.
For one, to claim that most developed countries have purged ritual feels more like you are referring to some specific rituals. Or have amusing cuts on what you consider developed countries.
You also sort of undercut yourself by noting that alcohol hits people in different, if repeatable ways; but you seem to think that will not be true for other drugs? From my experience, I would expect the same for pot. Tobacco, I confess I never really saw it impact anyone. Outside of getting them addicted.
Simply stated, why do you think you would not see such variability of how other items impact people?
They most likely mean all kinds of overt rituals societies used to have and some non-western societies still have.
What kind of rituals do we have that you have in mind that we still have, and that are not either very peripheral to everyday life or have not been diminishing in importance and attendance year by year?
Do we still do the same rituals as we did in the past? Of course not. Which is why I would largely agree. I suspect the evidence will be such that there are still more rituals than folks admit to. Graduation ceremonies. Weddings. Etc.
The predictability is a FEATURE. And btw, it's not boring at all.
You are conflating boring with predictable.
meanwhile 2-3 beers with friends I haven't seen in a while is a good time, good convo, and we can chill out and sip water for 30 min to make sure we're safe to drive. like, I'm looking to have a pint with the lads and have nice conversation, not undergo ego death.
Setting aside alcohol addiction, the costs of alcohol abuse to your health (e.g., brain damage, liver disease, etc.), and the risk of killing yourself by drinking too much in a sitting, there's also the way it drastically increases the risk of drunk driving and domestic violence.
I'm not saying we should ban it or anything, but we should not be underplaying the very real risks and costs associated with it.
Think of alcohol as ancient painkiller/antidepressant that helped people to get through the challenges of their lifes and make it through the life without walking out of the window
Yeah, no. According to CDC data, more than 150,000 people die from excessive alcohol consumption per year [1], which is about how many people died of heroin overdoses in the past 20 years [2].
By and large, the labels "safe" or "dangerous" are subjective and highly cultural, at least when it comes to substances.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/facts-stats/index.html
[2] https://www.cdc.gov/overdose-prevention/about/heroin.html
Easy, everyone drinks, almost nobody shoots up. There you go, explained.
My body has a hard time with it. So it’s rare that I seek it out. A small container of sake early in the evening might be my indulgence from now on.
For me it seems to correlate with having had COVID back in 2021, where prior to that I could still have 2-3 drinks and feel okay the next day. My suspicion/intuition is that it has something to do with a shift in my gut microbiome - from what I understand, alcohol can very easily disrupt one’s microbiome, and the state of my microbiome seems to have a significant influence on my mood.
I haven’t missed the alcohol though. It’s actually been a blessing for my general health and wellbeing.
However, I've also heard mention of people drinking less in general which could suggest a link.
A change that came along with this is some kind of sensitivity to sugar. I love candy and baked goods. A short stack of pancakes with maple syrup and berries is the best, but that kind of carb bomb can leave me feeling almost hungover.
I was also in my early 40s when this happened for what that's worth.
Note that I largely resonate with the idea that aging reduces tolerance to alcohol. Love the Oatmeal's https://theoatmeal.com/comics/hungover. Hasn't quite hit me that hard, yet. Thankfully.
[0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/drastic-molecular...
Also kept a clear mind and mindful awareness throughout. Just euphoric & more social.
Then at 53, after some extreme stress, that completely changed. One drink slowly is usually fine. 2-3 drinks will upset my sleep. Any more and my next day suffers.
At 4-5 drinks my body feels like it has a slight fever over night. I feel overheated, whether I really am I don’t know. Just can’t process it efficiently.
More than that & I get socially sloppy. Not bad, but not welcome either.
But my very petite daughter in her mid 20’s inherited my relevant genes. Since high school she has to down two hard cocktails within ten minutes to start an evening of (more paced, but still steady) drinking with friends just to feel the effects, like I did most of my life.
She can out drink companions 2x her weight.
Also in common, neither of us is at alcohol addiction risk. Drinking is completely social/situational, no cravings or problems with abstention. We both enjoy the taste of alcohol. Scotch, neat, tastes like candy to me.
Drinking has always been at least as much about the gourmand exploration of flavors and varieties as the psychological effect.
I got my DNA analysis and one chromosome is 68% Caribbean pirate, 32% Viking, the other is split equally Russian/Irish.
Joking - but would be interested if relevant genes could be identified. I would happily sign up for gene or epigenetic therapy to resume my old life of refined epicureanism in excess.
Drinking mixed with lots of sparkling water, diet sodas, and a powder mixture of creatine, minerals, protein & fiber, before & after, reliably helps a bit.
Also, liver health remains excellent.
Genes!
I used to like wine, but the older I got, the more I started noticing having a terrible hangover the next day, even if it wasn't enough to get actually drunk or even buzzed. Type/brand of wine didn't seem to matter. But whiskey or vodka mixed with soda, no problem.
I can’t recall the last time I was asked “why” after telling someone I don’t drink. All in all, I was fortunate that during university a close friend of mine also didn’t drink. Being the “odd one out” seems harder than being the “odd pair out” lol.
edit: culture plays a role as well in how acceptable it is. I’m from a country that is heavy on alcohol usage though (Belgium).
However, in society at large, social influence (excuse the bit of circularity) is an extremely powerful force driving people's lifestyle.
People often don't understand that not everyone experiences a thing the same way. That what it's like for you isn't the same as what it's like for me.
People think you experience alcoholic beverages exactly the same as they do and don't understand why you dislike them as a result.
Personally, no. Statistically, yes, at least enough for the difference to affect a study like this. That's the point of those comments.
Obviously the study result is BS. Because if the the same people, drinkers with higher than their abstinent peers cognitive scores, didn't drink, their performance would be THE SAME.
But it's impossible to find out. They should totally continue to study all that, tho. Maybe at some point in the future we can cut people open alive and look properly inside, fuck around & find out, and then close them up and send them back to work again.
That liquor consumption part of the study result.
Stupid (cognitively easy) stereotypes, backed by "everybody's gotta drink!" machismo/insecurity/conformist culture, backed by "all the people I know" (who aren't silenced by stereotypes and peer pressure) experience, backed by decade after decade of massive advertising by the alcohol industry (and adjacent industries).
I grew up in a blue-collar rural area where alcoholism wasn't just common, it was flat-out normal. Anyone who could get away with nursing a beer or 12 the whole day long and not get fired, usually did. My dad drank a lot and it caused a ton of problems with his marriage (leading to divorce) but at least he wasn't abusive.
I am also somewhat lucky in that I never could acquire a taste for beer. Based on my family history and upbringing, I could have very easily slid into alcoholism otherwise. I'll never know for sure, but to keep even the possibility at bay, I have two hard rules: no drinking during the day and no drinking the night before work or having to be somewhere the next day.
Because it does appear to appeal to 90% of the population
- there are tens of thousand drinks on the planet,
- all with their different nuances in how they alter mood and thinking patterns.
Not appealing just can't be true except if you 'score' low in novelty seeking/curiosity ... except if you were only exposed to bad drunks and pathetic alcoholics ...
Something like that. But it might also be because marketers see people like you as a challenge, a trophy to collect, and the non-marketing types just want to 'seduce' you.
They do the same to babies and minors all the time. "Say this or that, do this or that." And BAM, some brain cells practically useless forever.
This is honestly not true unless you are including absinthe. Ethanol is the only active ingredient and it has one of the most well understood dose-response curves and one of the most heavily studied effects. The rest is all in your head.
There just isn't that much to the alcohol, it's very one note, moreso than any psychedelic, moreso than even smoking (where dose control significantly varies the effects) or even cannabis which is also relatively one note.
I am quite certain that if you talked to a variety of people who like to drink, they will tell you that tequila hits different than a single barrel rye whiskey or champagne, for example. And it's more than just the amount of sugar. There are amounts of hints of various aromas in different liquor and these small differences do quite a bit in the brain, which you did propose yourself when you said
> The rest is all in your head.
Brains are incredible. The "sensitivity and specificity" of receptors goes way beyond what we understand for now, both hardware and software-wise, and that is true on the level of synapses as well as within any metabolism anywhere in their chains in the body and in how they work together to achieve their own objectives, as well as the ones they share.
Take any approach within the range of broken - buggy - normal - amplified and apply it to any sphere of single and networked mechanism. Wear and tear and age change all this even further and never forget that we are still evolving, over very long time spans in very small changes.
It's an insane ride from bio-chemistry to character in different states of mind and body/brain and that ride morphs quite a bit based on anything we consume via active and passive channels.
And that's just part of the story as it evolves in my head.