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Comment by djtango | Hacker News Reader

I don't much like cruises but I do really enjoy being out at sea and would be more than happy to "raw dog" (in gen z parlance) some trips out at sea.

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> "raw dog" (in gen z parlance)

I had to google that......

I'm afraid 'raw dogging' means something very different in Blighty!

Means the same "very different" something here in the US too... Maybe doing it in a cruise ship adds to the excitement ?

The term has been "repurposed" by gen z/alpha to mean having an experience in real life without filters.

Well...... shagging in a car whist a bunch of blokes stand around watching and wanking certainly is an experience in real life without filters!

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dogging

"raw dog" and "dogging" are two different sexual slang terms. "raw dogging" here is to be understood as to raw dog in present tense, not dogging in a manner that is raw.

This is what I love about HN, you can find an expert on anything.

yolo

A supposed expert in anything, yes.

I'm not an expert, just someone who's heard the slang...

Wiktionary agrees with you... https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/raw_dog#English

What does one call dogging in a manner that is raw?

"dysphemism": https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P0k3foBDm14

IMO it is a complete bastardization of the phrase.

The genz/alpha version is a noble form of asceticism, while the 'original' meaning is more a hedonistic indulgence without regard for consequences to yourself or others.

I think they both share the "disregarding consequences" part.

I don't see it.

What are the consequences of, for example, staring at the live flight map and only the live flight map for a 7 hour flight [1]? Sounds boring as hell but you're not going to like bore yourself insane

[1] https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/erling-haaland-raw-dogs-7-h...

There are many ways to enjoy seas, cruise ships are by far the worst. As per people who worked on those, they are mostly for people who simply don't know how to enjoy life well but have money, are quiet alcoholics, and/or suffer massive loneliness.

You can do amazing traveling experiences for less, you are in control of your own life and what happens next and you will feel like spending much more time when discovering world, culture, history and people compared to same white box with same things at same places.

But its the same mentality of going to some properly amazing exotic place and then spending 2 weeks in luxury bubble of some 5 star resort. I don't complain - those folks leave interesting places and experiences for rest of us, but respecting that I cannot.

There’s times I want to explore, and there’s times I just want to do nothing.

Cruises are good for when I want to do nothing for a while.

> Cruises are good for when I want to do nothing for a while.

Weird way to spend not-insignificant money on but to each their own

I find I get somewhat anxious being at home and not doing anything, whereas it’s just psychologically easier in the middle of the ocean.

I’m happy to pay the cost to be in an environment that I can actually relax in.

Hear me out but maybe spend the cruise money for getting coaching from a psychologist/therapist to help you with feeling anxious at home? That doesn’t sound like a great overall attitude, having stress responses at home and work related

In a less serious way there is the possibility (and therefore a potential expectation) of being 'productive' when at home. Chores, errands, unfinished projects and all the other daily life that surrounds you.

For me, any time off spent away from home has a different timbre of rejuvenation and I say that as someone who loves being at home.

I think that's totally fair. I tend to like fairly active vacations for the most part. But it's also the case that, when I'm at home, I also feel the pull for all sorts of tasks that are pretty much endless.

I think this is overstating the power of psychological treatment and therapy. Getting away from the normal routine for a bit is probably an ancient therapy for restless humans. I'd rather pay the cruise line than the doctors office.

Train rides across the country?

Actually though, road trips scratch that itch for me as well. I don't plan them out except to say — let's wander off to the Great Lakes or lets follow the Mississippi River south — see all the river towns along the way. I've used AI to throw out ideas of things to see while on the road, or the wife and I fall back to looking for antique stores as an excuse to wander through the small downtowns of towns no one has heard of.

That’s still doing something though. On a cruise ship you can wake up, walk out of your room and stop for breakfast on your way to the deck where you sit in a chair and watch the ocean for hours. It can be way more chill.

Driving is very unpleasant for some. Trains in the US are not exactly luxurious by any stretch: compare the food on a nice cruise to the food available on a train.

This was the biggest shock when seeing Europe, their trains are so much better. Considering how sprawling the continental US is, it's a shame we don't have more and better quality trains.

It’s because the US is so sprawling that trains lost out to planes there. Almost all of Europe is accessible in a day on a train. Only planes can do that in the US. So the US trains don’t have their costs amortized over a large fraction of business travel as well as vacationers.

High speed trains could still help connect a lot more hubs in the US. And more low speed trains and trolleys could reduce local traffic. IMO car culture took root, and we dove in head first with little thought to the long term consequences.

> Almost all of Europe is accessible in a day on a train. Only planes can do that in the US.

The US isn’t that much larger, I don’t think this argument holds. The geography and locations of population centres seem more of an issue.

Yeah, NYC to Chicago is about 18 hours over a continental divide. You do out west and things get even further. Outside the Northeast corridor and a few other city pairs, train trips are pretty long in the US.

I've been tempted to do at least part of one of the long distance US train routes but I think I'd get pretty bored, I'm guessing the food isn't very good, and I've spent a lot of time out West.

"The US isn’t that much larger"

Just search for one of the many pictures of the state (state!) of Texas superimposed over Europe.

The US is freaking huge compared to Europe.

> The US is freaking huge compared to Europe.

I have compared them, and I don’t see what you’re seeing. Depending on how you measure (do you include European Russia, ie the bit west of the Urals?) Europe is larger.

https://www.worldatlas.com/geography/are-the-usa-and-europe-...

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/unit...

The EU is 1.5 million square miles of land area. The continental US is 3.1 million square miles of land area. Continental Europe incl. non-EU countries is over 4 million square miles of land area.

And there's very little day-to-day train travel across that area.

Based on what he said he's from the Midwest where driving across a state is a short trip. I assume they are in the Minnesota/Iowa/Wisconsin tri state area. 2 hours is normal to get to any bigger city.

I think you are mentioning a dichotomy that is more important than most people realize: those who like driving and those who don't.

Driving is relaxing or interesting for me, almost no matter what. Even when it gets stressful I don't mind it. But I feel for those who don't have that same predilection, because everything would be blocked behind a chore.

> Cruises are good for when I want to do nothing for a while.

I've never been on a cruise, but for me renting a beach house does the same. Sleep, eat, watch the ocean from the beach and do totally nothing.

Camping with friends also does it. Let all the kids play together, just sit and watch, doing nothing.

When I was a bit younger I would have considered "doing nothing" hell on earth, but with a busy life it's good to just do nothing once in a while.

Catering included is big part. No need to cook or to clean up.

I did a trans-Atlantic crossing earlier this year. There were a lot of interesting entertainment options and good food--and I had plenty of time. Not something I would routinely do as a travel option but given flexibility and the need to get across the ocean in some manner as part of another activity definitely something I'd consider again.

Renting a beach house is very similar to cruising. It's literally a beach house with builtin amenities, restaurants, and no weird trips to the local Walmart.

Sounds like a very expensive way to do nothing. I can do nothing at home virtually for free.

I don't get this kind of vitriol toward cruise goers. I like to plan trips as an adventure like you and 6 years ago had zero desire to ever go on a cruise. I ended up going on one because my in-laws wanted to do a European cruise with extended family for their retirement celebration. They don't drink, they enjoy their life and got to celebrate with family so no loneliness. They are just older and don't have the physicality or mental desire to plan and go on adventures anymore. They wanted a more catered experience for their celebration.

I actually enjoyed the cruise way more than I thought I would. The cruise allowed people to do what they want. My in-laws and others with less physical ability could go on bus tours or taxi around. People like me that preferred adventure can spend 8 hours walking through different nooks and crannies of the city. Being on deck in an open sea was nice and peaceful. I had been to Europe a few times before, but the cruise allowed me to go and walk around port cities that I wouldn't have been able to go to otherwise, without substantially more cost. Each with some interesting bits to walk through and good food to eat. It was a good, quick, demo for whether I wanted to plan a future trip to that city.

If I were planning a trip now for my immediate fanily, I wouldn't do a cruise. I do not spew vitriol and insults at those that do though. Most of them aren't as pathetic as you have been led to think.

Look into what life is like for the staff.

A previous commenter mentioned that cruises (paraphrase) “lack the colonial feel of mexican resorts” which is a testament to the power of consumerist illusion.

That’s why you tip generously and often.

Yea, I know the staff can be treated terribly. I can see how the OP I replied to can get the impression that all cruise goers are bitter/terrible people if their anecdotes are mostly staff complaints. I never talked or dealt with staff other than ordering food/drinks. I saw plenty of people talking rudely to staff with petty complaints. I saw one of the entertainers yelling because one woman grabbed his crotch as they passed by. The staff have to deal with the worst/rudest/entitled cruise goers and get paid way too little for it.

Do you apply the same scrutiny to other leisure activities in your life?

If you've ever been to a chinese restaurant or hired a landscaper you are dealing in the same or similar unpleasantness that you attribute to cruise staff. Assuming you are American FWIW.

I am being downvoted, wee:

https://www.dw.com/en/the-truth-about-working-on-a-cruise-sh...

The cruise industry is indeed shitty to staff.

An all inclusive resort in the caribbean is also likely to be shitty to staff. Most people are drinking coffee or eating chocolate that has slavery somewhere along the supply line.

I think you can make the case that cruising is an unethical industry, either because of exploitative labor practices or environmental damage. But almost nobody who is criticizing cruising as a vacation is starting here. Instead, cruises are called trashy and fake in comparison to "authentic" travel experiences.

Same here. My elderly parents love cruises, but I didn't see the allure. Went on one and it was "OK." I spent most of the time in one of the hot tubs where "Tommy From Boston" was a permanent fixture. He had an infinite number of stories in the queue that he had to tell anyone who climbed into the tub, and probably drank over 100 beers a day. It wasn't bad, and I wouldn't go out of my way to plan a cruise, but it wasn't the pure torture and torment that some people are posting here.

I can’t tell, are you Tommy?

Tommy from Boston is the reason I host an open mic and frequent the bar around the corner from my place. Well said.

Yeah agreed. They're quite a solid and easy choice when you need to cater to the lowest common denominator (not meant at all in a derogatory sense!)

If you're planning a holiday for ages spanning 2-75 for 3-5 families. What other holidays will have food that satisfies everyone's particular tastes, has activities for all ages and has a full suite of excursions or equally ringfenced "nothing" time. Its also comparatively safe.

All without putting the onus on someone to organise a huge trip with lots of competing interests and spending habits.

Sure, there are probably alternatives but I can understand the appeal even though I'm still pretty happy planning my own adventures when its me and my wife.

As a person who definitely has big issues with the cruise industry as a whole this was the best pro-cruises comment I read in the whole thread, especially this bit :

> but the cruise allowed me to go and walk around port cities that I wouldn't have been able to go to otherwise, without substantially more cost

However, I still note that it was written by a person who identifies as someone generally uninterested in cruises i.e. not the typical cruise-ship enthusiast.

For some reason cruises bring out a lot of judgment in people. But at the end of the day, some people like cruises, others don't. Some people like exploring cultures, other people enjoy entertainment at sea. Some people like roughing it in an exotic foreign place, others prefer luxury hotels. The same person's preferences might change over time. Why do you think your preferences are better than someone else's?

This kind of judgmental attitude is the thing that's not worthy of respect, imo.

Perhaps but also it has the best metal festivals every year. I even get my own toilet and clean bed.

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