Everyone seems to be saying this but whenever I get quotes they are always the same, for every dollar the hardware goes down the labor seems to go up the exact same amount… strange how that works.
As the statista.com report says
>...Rooftop solar photovoltaic installations on residential buildings and nuclear power have the highest unsubsidized levelized costs of energy generation in the United States. If not for federal and state subsidies, rooftop solar PV would come with a price tag between 117 and 282 U.S. dollars per megawatt hour.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/493797/estimated-leveliz...
Looks like that report is a year old, but I doubt the installation costs have really gone down much since then. (Panel prices come down, but labor costs, etc don't.)
Sure, but they are not in most places. IMO subsidies made sense to kickstart the industry given the external costs imposed by climate change, but I agree that they don't anymore.
> >...Rooftop solar photovoltaic installations on residential buildings and nuclear power have the highest unsubsidized levelized costs of energy generation in the United States.
I don't think levelized cost for generation is the correct metric here. That ignores the costs imposed by grid transmission (and utility profit margins). It's also worth noting that installation costs in the US can be much higher than those in other countries (even other wealthy countries).
In general, if a dollar of subsidy spent on utility based solar will go much further than a dollar of subsidy spent on consumer rooftop solar, then it makes sense to spend that dollar on where it will go the furthest. That is true now, and was true 10 years ago.
>...That ignores the costs imposed by grid transmission (and utility profit margins).
But aren't those installations also attached to the grid? If not, the costs go very very high if you have enough battery that you don't need to attach to the grid.
>...It's also worth noting that installation costs in the US can be much higher than those in other countries (even other wealthy countries).
I wouldn't be surprised if some or all the OECD countries also subsidize rooftop solar, so it might be hard to compare actual costs.
282 U.S. dollars per megawatt hour
So it seems like solar would be cheaper even without any subsidy?
https://www.lazard.com/media/xemfey0k/lazards-lcoeplus-june-...
You seemed to disagree with that? I'm pointing out that, at least where I live, it appears this commenter was correct.
If rooftop solar costs me $300/MWh, that's a third cheaper than the $450/MWh charged by my local utility provider. So, even without any subsidy or feed-in tariff, it would be rational for me to install solar, use it when available, and fall back to the grid when it's not.
Again, the only point I'm making is that this this statement appears to be true:
The thing with rooftop/local solar is that it doesn't need to compete with wholesale electricity prices, it only need to compete with retail prices. It's already competitive there [without any need for subsidies]
If you want the capability of using your own rooftop solar, you need to install a much more costly battery backup system. With a typical solar system, the electrical output is sent to the grid. (So, if there is an outage on the grid, it will also shut down your panels since they don't want you to possibly electrocute the electrical workers.)
https://help.pge.com/s/article/Will-I-still-have-power-durin....
>If rooftop solar costs me $300/MWh, that's a third cheaper than the $450/MWh charged by my local utility provider.
The $300 is an estimated LCOE for the intermittent power produce by rooftop solar, not some charge you get in the mail. Utilities can buy or produce that power for much less than that cost.
>So, even without any subsidy or feed-in tariff, it would be rational for me to install solar, use it when available, and fall back to the grid when it's not.
Except as I pointed out, you can't "use it when available" unless you have a battery backup system which the LCOE will be much higher than what you will pay your utility over the life of the system. That might change in the future, but that is the reality today.
>Again, the only point I'm making is that this this statement appears to be true:
>> The thing with rooftop/local solar is that it doesn't need to compete with wholesale electricity prices, it only need to compete with retail prices. It's already competitive there [without any need for subsidies]
I guess you should ask yourself why you think that statement was true? The person who made that comment adjusted their comment to add that actual battery systems weren't competitive at this point:
>>"They're not quite affordable yet, but I'll eat my hat if they home batteries don't hit affordability in the next 5-10 years."
Except as I pointed out, you can't "use it when available" unless you have a battery backup system
https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/01/ca...
While solar panel costs have dropped very low, the soft costs for installing rooftop solar (labor, permitting, etc.) have only gone up, so one off rooftop solar will always be more expensive than utility solar.
- Installing rooftop solar
- Retaining the existing grid connection but not connecting the solar to it (or not connecting it in such a way that power is sent back to the grid).
- Running household electrical loads off of the solar when available, falling back to the grid connection when it isn't.
You don't necessarily get full utilisation of the solar energy this way, but you can often still save a whole bunch of money compared to not having the solar. Especially if you are willing/able to load shift energy intensive things like washing/drying to times where the sun is shining.
You can also potentially gain additional savings by having a smallish battery that gains you some additional utilisation without it necessarily having to cover your entire daily usage.
Your energy bill has a fixed daily rate to be connected to the grid. That pays for poles and wires, maintenance etc. To oversimplify a bit there’s also your cost per kWh to buy energy and to sell it. Someone using their own PV system during the day and buying from the grid at night isn’t “free riding” like you think. The connection is paid for by the fixed connection fee.