It's disheartening to see so much thought and deliberation going into an obviously toxic idea (taxing unrealized gains) when the obvious solution (removing the cost basis step-up when assets change hands) is being ignored.
Inherited wealth is the least earned, so it should be politically palatable to change this. But presumably because such a change would acutely affect the people who make laws in the country specifically, it is never seriously considered.
We have a limit on gifts and according to this is 13 million. Just make it that.
What would be the downside here other than extremely wealthy having to pay some taxes upon death?
It's your home. It's no more free or unfree, earned or unearned than anything else.
The home that I grew up in is.. hell, I'd consider it to be "mine" and my siblings more than almost anything else I have.
If you got a home worth that much, you can pay some taxes on it.
https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/more-than-1-500-homes...
1,500 homes sold for over 10m in a year. We're talking about the richest of the rich. That's exactly who should be paying some taxes. The people bitching about losing 'their' home this way... are either a) delusional or b) looking for a way to protect their incredible wealth.
Is your family home worth more than 10 or 20m dollars?
In my country our threshold is significantly lower by the way - it's around a million, so bog standard houses get hit by it.
I think that inheritance taxes are wholly equivalent to wealth taxes, e.g. "you have a thing, I like that thing, give me that thing", and therefore morally wrong.
I could agree with them on the basis that the money were minimal and solely used for security e.g. police and military, it's an insurance policy against theft, the Government has a monopoly on force and that's better than warlords.
It's not used that way though, so I reject the premise.
Instead of trying to analyze hundreds of different what-makes-house-above-bare-minimum aspects we can simply use the price as a good indicator of the underlying value.
And 1mil house is definitely not bare minimum. It is clearly above average.
Everything started with another account saying "In my country our threshold [for inheritance tax] is significantly lower by the way - it's around a million, so bog standard houses get hit by it."
So my point is that 1mil house is not a "bog standard house", whether we look globally or in the USA-only.
Sure, there are some spots in the world in which the average price of the house is going to be higher. But that's irrelevant. It only means that the location is what making that house exceptional.
I understand your practical considerations/explanations about living in an extremely costly place where everything (housing, food, etc) is expensive. But the decision to stay there is on you. "if I sell here and move to North Dakota I'll be a wealthy individual there, but I am not going to be doing that" - is the crux of the issue.
That's exactly what the ultra wealthy seem to generally believe too. Sorry that many of us reject your premise that you should be freely protected to screw over everyone else and think that's a moral decision (it's not, but I won't waste my time).
More or less having to do that would be good for society and mildly annoying for the like five dozen existing corporate dynasties on the planet.
Second, it is irrelevant. The capital gains tax that would be due on a normal step-up in basis during life is independent of the estate tax.
Assume there was no exemption and you bought stocks 20 years ago for 100 K$ that are now worth 1 M$. If you die, then your estate would need to pay estate taxes on 1 M$.
However, if instead you sold it the day before you died, you would need to pay capital gains on 900 K$. Then you pass away with N $ = (1 M$ - taxes) in cash. Your estate would then additionally need to pay estate tax on N $.
The step-up in basis is the difference between these cases. Your inheritors get your capital gains (step-up in basis) tax-free, but you still need to pay the estate tax.
A - In a universe with cost basis step-up on death, they die with gains taxed at 0% and then pay 40% estate tax on everything.
B - In a world without cost basis step-up on death, they die with gains taxed at the 20% long term rate and then pay 40% estate tax on what remains.
Thus:
The step-up causes less tax revenue by percentage from the >$300M crowd who use the BBD strategy, but it causes more tax revenue by percentage from the $13M<crowd<$300M who do not use the BBD strategy. The latter pay more tax with option A! 20% on a chunk and 40% on the remaining chunk is less government revenue than just 40% unchunked, especially if the capital gains being realized on death are a majority of the net worth.
I wonder which crowd has more worth-at-death in aggregate (in the absence of BBD and the like -- if estate tax were to be paid by all, no loopholes), given that the less wealthy crowd is a much larger population.
N is your cost basis. M is the gain. E is the estate tax. G is the gains tax.
((N + M) * E) is tax on the automatic step-up, option A.
(M * G) + (N + M - (M * G)) * E is the tax on the non-automatic step-up, option B.
Reorganized to ((N + M) * E) + (M * G) * (1 - E), it is clear that option B is strictly more taxes for any estate tax less than 100%.
Of course, it would be long term (20%) and estate (40% but on slightly less), not one or the other. Mea culpa.
If farms and ranches are the best place to hide family wealth, then family wealth will pour into agricultural land. That inflates values and pushes out the actual ranchers and farmers. If farming is just a byproduct of your tax-avoidance strategy then you are unlikely to try too hard at it. We actually need farms, and nobody wants them to become tax-avoidance shells.
Even public businesses are not trivial to value for very large shareholders who don’t have the ability to easily sell all shares at once without moving the market quite a bit. But in any case, removing this loophole would just encourage the ultra wealthy to put their money into opaque businesses and then try to “value” them as low as possible. So it’s not so easy to fix.
You would pay an estate tax (on the total value of something, regardless of its cost). And then you'd still (when you eventually sold it) owe capital gains tax.
Regardless of whether you think that particular reasoning makes sense, it definitely doesn't make sense if there's no estate tax (which there effectively isn't for most due to the multi-million dollar exclusion) since there's no risk of double taxation.
Step up basis was actually repealed in 1976. But there was immense pushback at the time around record keeping and Congress eventually agreed and retroactively cancelled the new law.
Whether the answer would be different today in this age of computerised record keeping .... ?
Let's be real. No wealth is 'earned'. It's almost entirely luck and social connections. No different from inheritance.
Besides, inheritance can be hard work, psychologically. Your parents may be in a very different socioeconomic group than you for most of your adult life. Your baseline expectation for a 'normal' lifestyle is somewhat elevated (due to the lifestyle you experienced in your childhood) but, for most of your adult reality, you're broke and you feel guilty knowing that your child (the only one you can afford to have) can't have the same childhood that you had.
You work like crazy just to try to earn a living to get back to 'normal' (what you experienced in your childhood) but, deep down, you know you that your best shot at getting there is inheritance in about 30 years' time when you're at death's door (because, with all the stress you experienced, you know you're not going to live as long as your parents). Your biggest worry is that your government will fall to communism and there will be no inheritance.
Your life was basically ruined since the start of adulthood as soon as you were confronted with the ugly reality that labor of any kind is worthless and capital is everything. A reality that your parents will never have to face.
If the government wants to be perfectly consistent and tax people based on how easy it was for them to earn money, then it should impose wealth tax since the amount of wealth tells you the amount of luck and social connectedness at play... And this will also impact inheritance to some extent, but to a fairer extent.
Sure you could call a long life and decent job luck, but a lot of people live into their 90’s.
What about the crazy hours that doctors often work?
If the system was fairer and doctors experienced close to 'free market' competition, then I would agree 100%, but it's not the case.
I'm sure it's very difficult but doctors have it really good compared to other professionals who also work late and have to compete on a global marketplace with no professional protections/regulatory constraints.
1. Allow unrealized losses to be deducted.
2. Once a certain percentage of the gain is taxed, step up the cost basis by the amount of tax paid. That way you avoid double taxation (once under the unrealized value and again when the asset is sold).
3. (optional) Keep the tax rate on unrealized gains low. Even 3% would be significantly higher than what we have today.
Under this logic, it almost seems like a no brainer. People who have a ton of wealth in unrealized gains would pay taxes progressively over time instead of being hit with a massive tax bill when they sell (or potentially no tax bill when they die due to the step up in cost basis). Feel free to poke loopholes in this idea.
Also, there is a real debate to be had about if housing should be primary considered an investment or a basic need by society. Many argue that the focus on housing as an investment in the US is a primary driver of our housing problems.
Property taxes are a use tax (roads, police, fire, schools, etc), apportioned base on property value, it is not a capital gains tax.
This seemed really reasonable to me until I started thinking about how it might work in practice. The sequence of returns can make this proposal ineffective in practice, even if it makes sense on first blush.
By way of explanation: Let's say you're the founder of Pets.com in an alternate universe where unrealized gains have always been taxed (and correspondingly unrealized losses can be deducted). It's 2000, and you've just had an incredible run. You have also paid incredible taxes along the way.
Then your company blows up and goes to zero.
Now you've payed an incredible amount of taxes on your paper gains, and have realized no gains whatsoever. So the entire enterprise only resulted in an enormous real loss to you. Sure you can now carry forward those losses, but so what? You're never going to make up the difference, unless we're also letting your heirs carry forward those losses into the next century or two.
Given the exposure to massive tax bills without any actual profits, who in their right mind would start or invest in a business under that tax code? Who would dare invest a large portion of their personal worth in public equities given the risk that they plummet, as they did in 2022, 2020, 2008, 2001, 2000, 1987, 1962, 1929, 1907, etc.? Who would take a gamble on a big real estate development? And so on.
It seems to me that a tax on unrealized gains massively disincentivizes investment and the creation of anything new, and therefore the only way to tax capital gains that makes sense is if we calculate the tax due based on when chips are taken off the table. Issues like Buy, Borrow, Die are better addressed with other changes to the tax code that undo the weird incentivizes presently in place (e.g. eliminating the step-up basis, possibly at some threshold if the goal is to make the tax code more progressive). Unless, that is, your goal is to actively disincentivize entrepreneurship and investment. Which if it is, I guess fair enough, but then none of us should be surprised to find ourselves with a lower standard of living in a decade as a result.
That said, I don't see why there's a need for a deduction here. There isn't one for property taxes. Sure there is one when you sell your property at a loss, and that's also already the case when selling stock. Additionally such a tax like this won't ever cause you to lose your entire stock ownership as it's always based on a fraction of your ownership. And, last but not least, you could also impose caps or progressions.
And property taxes are deductible in the US. I’m not sure where you got the impression they aren’t.
In all seriousness, that is extremely unlikely to be the case, especially in broad terms. I mean, to purchase public stock at all you already must do so from a licensed broker, who mind you, is already required by law to report the cost basis of shares purchased by investors. To require them to regularly move 2% of shares owned by investors, to the government's ownership, would be rather trivial in cost to do. Hell, it could be completely automated.
And the cost of it doing that would likely be much less than property taxes, which, is a far less liquid asset, and much more costly to assess than equities, but is nonetheless profitable to tax. I mean the SP500 alone has a market cap of ~$47 trillion, which is, surprising almost the same exact value as the entire US real estate market, but much more liquid.
Additionally, whether it is even profitable at all could be besides the intent of the tax here. It doesn't necessarily have to be profitable, from which perspective, poor liquidity and changes in outcomes isn't a problematic at all. It could be even the intent.
> And property taxes are deductible in the US. I’m not sure where you got the impression they aren’t.
Okay fair. I suppose you could do something similar, but also don't see why it's necessary, just because we do so for other taxes.
Otherwise, when do you expect the government to actually realize its gains? If I have a house I intend to live in until I die and the govt take 2% of my stake away each year, when would it be allowed to force a sale to realize it?
Do I just lose my house once it has a majority stake? Does it just wait until I die? If it does, how is this better than an inheritance tax that is significantly easier to implement?
Not as simple as it sounds...when you can set up original ownership of an asset into a trust and have control of that trust change hands.
We need the political will, the legal problems are solvable.
Taxing unrealized gains in general I think is impractical since many assets simply don't have well-defined valuations, but if you take out, say, a $10 million loan using, say, shares in a privately traded company, then those shares are apparently worth $10 million dollars because the owner and the bank agreed they were.
Why should inheriting a property reset the basis?
What a ridiculous notion. Someone's already getting an asset for free (inheriting it), and we're further subsidizing the tax liability on it. Taxes that were due to the government are wiped out.
If an asset was worth $50k in 1950, and is now worth $100k, it would feel really weird when capital gains tax is collected on an asset that actually lost more than 80% of it's value over the years.
But whether it's on you or not is beyond the point. Being taxed on top of a loss is not a good thing.
Also there are plenty of reasons not to sell a depreciating asset. For example, CEO willing to maintain control over company, or simply not wanting to send bad signals to the public by selling their shares (because that would depreciate the asset even more).
A better argument would be to adjust basis for inflation instead of resetting it.
Presuming you can continue to service your debt payments as interest rates and your income varies over time, and are never subject to a margin call due to a drop in the value of your collateral, something even the most powerful are at risk of: https://www.ft.com/content/cf78d815-7ade-40fc-a68d-ec73accb7...
It’s not really any different than what the average American family does with their home.