Researchers find Alzheimer's-like brain changes in long Covid patients
uknow.uky.edu
uknow.uky.edu
I also have the profound cardiovascular deconditioning described in other comments. So many hopes dreams flushed down the toilet, but people assume that I'm just lazy and stupid. My heart goes out to the millions with this condition who aren't as privileged as I am. At least I have savings and family to fall back on (as well as a large cognitive reserve).
AMA, I guess!
Reminds me of:
> The culprit behind “the germ of laziness,” as the South’s affliction was sometimes called, was Necator americanus —the American murderer. Better known today as the hookworm, millions of those bloodsucking parasites lived, fed, multiplied, and died within the guts of up to 40% of populations stretching from southeastern Texas to West Virginia. Hookworms stymied development throughout the region and bred stereotypes about lazy, moronic Southerners.
* https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/how-a-worm-gave-the-so...
Oddly I got COVID this past July and most of my heart/lung symptoms disappeared the day before being sick, and did not return until a week or two after I recovered. I have heard this before in the LC community going back years.
good luck!
Are they improving?
As for physically, I just get winded much more easily -- and it's not the kind of winded I used to get, where if I pushed through, my body might complain but gear up to meet the challenge anyway. I just hit a brick wall where my heart and lungs won't give any more, either immediately or over the long run.
I've seen a mild improvement cognitively lately, though not sure why.
I'm getting better, but I feel like I relapse occasionally. Extra sleep seems to help me a lot.
I work from home, and I'm generally pretty careful, I got it the other times in places you wouldn't really expect like drive throughs.
The first case was by far the worst though.
I went for a very short very slow walk with one of them. She wears a fancy Garmin which beeps when her heart rate goes over 100bpm. We walked for 15 mins and it went off.
I really hadn't realised quite how real and quite how incapacitating long covid is.
Also your anecdote aligns with the fact that it's more women than men who get it.
How is a doctor, who could see hundreds of patients a week supposed to know ?
I really truly don’t want to be rude. I only want to point to the existence of literature on this.
There are results from molecular biology, from the various medical specializations, from population-scale studies.
There are certainly symptoms and biomarkers. There are documented changes to physiology, and there exists at least some information on how to help the body recover.
Personally I think our relationship with flu tells us a lot about the difference between our claimed ideals and our actual behavior as a society. We didn't want to know anything about it for curiosities sake and we invented all sorts of higher priorities to not study the mundane diseases between pandemics.
I got tested for other stuff - low T which I thought it might be or prostate cancer which the doc thought but neither of those. I'm recovering a bit through normal passage of time.
Of course there's no substitute for working with a PT who specializes in post TBI recovery.
I've gained a lot of my recall back (though not at 100%).
Do you mean synonyms, or something else? Can you give an example of a category and A, B, C please? Thanks.
I have been using it all week. It concentrates the mind but on random things.. which helps with boredom and sleep. It also avoids spiraling down on a single topic which typically makes sleep harder.
They suggested not only thinking the word but also visualizing it. I have found it fairly effective this week
Hard to say whether the rest was actually necessary, but there’s reasonable evidence that it can help.
"Strong arguments support the thesis that, through various mechanisms, COVID-19 infection can contribute to the development of hypertension." [1]
At least some of the literature points in that direction. Have your doctors read the literature and concluded it's not a thing or did they just wing it because Googling is hard?
Maybe try fixing that by regenerating part of your thymus glad with growth hormone—-either endogenous via HIIT workouts or externally administered (see the TRIIM trial).
It is not plausible to propose that 69-96% of patients, including children, had undetected brain disorders and that was the direction of causality.
If they’re only testing people with symptoms, the causality could easily go either way.
These are participants whose health is being followed long term. They had brain scans before and after COVID, and abnormalities were detected in the scans post-COVID.
Funnily enough I was watching a vid yesterday on a potential breakthrough in another tricky illness - alzheimer's - where a researcher looking at passing on epigenetic information in nematode worms tried the same experiment in mice, knocking out a particular enzyme, and quite by chance produced alzheimer effects in the mice. Which now looks like it may have hit on the mechanism in humans. So maybe something like that? https://x.com/ydeigin/status/1828961739934695831
Everyone in my life disregarded me or didn't understand the severity of what I was dealing with. Looking back, returning to ADHD medicine back then might have been the best course of action, however a specialized treatment would be very welcome. Regardless of how others perceive the disease, people like me would greatly benefit.
Perhaps you can get a single attack of MS but not get (many) more. Certainly fatigue is one symptom of MS. Blurred / double vision is another.
Almost all of my friends had contracted it as young children, when the virus apparently is less destructive. Thus, my experience of mono at 18, and with a compromised immune system, was considerably more severe than anything experienced by those I spoke to.
I was unable to do anything but lay on someone's couch for 6 months. I was homeless and couldn't work due to the severity of the disease and risk of spreading it, and so I had to steal food in order to live. It's unsurprising that the aftermath was equally unpleasant.
The irony of warning not to take medical advice on HN, and then proceeding to offer alternative medical advice...
This, despite the fact that Doctors do actually prescribe stimulants for CFS.
Medical information couched as "I'm not an expert, here's my experience and some supporting references, your mileage may vary" tends to fly far better than doubling down on dissing opposing viewpoints or wildly novel and unsubstantiated information.
Dang's somewhat adjacent commentary: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20078667> (in the context of someone requesting that bad medical advice be flagged).
My view is that at best HN might raise potential treatments / practices which people should evaluate with a qualified medical professional. And yes, I'm aware that both access to and quality of same varies tremendously and can well be its own massive challenge. Particularly when capacity to seek out and engage with providers is itself limited.
So you "catch" a flu. Before you know you've caught it, suddenly you want to go out to dinner, or go to a meetup of friends that you weren't planning on, or go to the movies / a concert.
Your misrecognizing faces seems like it might have felt the onus was on you to go up to people you saw and say "hey how've you been!" which, if you were infectious, would be detrimental to other people but beneficial to the virus. maybe long-covid or whatever left that part of your brain miswired and it took however long for the brain to fix the feature.
Many common viruses like HSV are passed down to children do I'd say exposure is nearly impossible to avoid.
From 2021: “Biological markers of brain injury, neuroinflammation and Alzheimer’s correlate strongly with the presence of neurological symptoms in COVID-19 patients.”
[1] https://aaic.alz.org/releases_2021/covid-19-cognitive-impact...
I had some weird virus a couple weeks ago that didn't seem like it could possibly be contagious, there was no outward symptoms like coughing or whatever. But one of the symptoms was the inability to sleep. I think i got my personal best "without sleep without any chemicals" - i wasn't eating much because i wasn't hungry - like at all, so no caffeine or sugar, no medications that would cause sleeplessness. I was up very nearly 43 hours. And i had to force myself to go to sleep, because i knew the auditory hallucinations were going to start soon - i get em, they're more annoying than tinnitus, at around the 45-48 hour mark, and they get progressively worse. Prior to being awake 42 hours, i had maybe 4 hours of sleep total, and leading up to that i had been up over 20 hours - so my sleep was completely ruined.
Due to the lack of sleep, i cannot remember anything that happened that week, or the week prior. Nor what i read (i read two books), who i talked to or about what. It's just blank - not fuzzy, not hard to recall, just nothing there.
How do i remember any details? i was live-posting about how poorly i felt and why, went back and read them, committed my posts to memory.
But it seems likely it's something that could be from any virus.
That is, by what mechanism does covid cause "brain fog" after the fact?
That symptom, from a different disease, only caused a serious problem after persisting for over a decade. Count on it going away, if you work, and rest, your brain. - Crosses fingers
Gradually, I began to get better, and this was in lockstep with my garmin's reporting of my HRV which had massively declined immediately after onset. At my worst, walking up one flight of stairs or showering would have me out of breath and send my heart racing.
Before all of this, I was an extremely fit young person (very high VO2 max and exercised daily). Im only just starting to get a resemblance of my former life back and I fortunately only had a mild case but it has really woken me up to the seriousness of post viral syndromes. I now actively avoid _any_ sick people, no matter how mild - my initial infection barely registered as a sore throat and sniffles.
I hope we really ramp up investigations into this field as I know there are a lot of people suffering in silence being fobbed off by archaic medical thinking in this area of medicine. Who knows what long term lasting damage has been done to my body
> To provide causal as opposed to merely correlational evidence on this question, we take advantage of the fact that in Wales eligibility for the herpes zoster vaccine (Zostavax) for shingles prevention was determined based on an individual’s exact date of birth. Those born before September 2 1933 were ineligible and remained ineligible for life, while those born on or after September 2 1933 were eligible to receive the vaccine.
Basically, the people born around that date are about as perfect a control-vs-experimental group split you can get in a large population.
Also mold causing mold toxin load, like e.g. ochratoxin A which causes cell death in the memory centres of the brain
This one theory that currently doesn't have a lot of hard evidence supporting it. It is a promising theory, but I don't think it is good to state it as if it is established fact.
In my unsubstantiated opinion it's likely to be herpesviridae that make their way to the brain due to their affinity for nerve tissue and the fact up to 80% of Americans have HSV1. Separately 50% of Americans have cytomegalovirus, another herpes virus. And yet more have HSV6 and HSV8. It's safe to assume over 90% of Americans have some latent herpes-family virus.
It also explains why acyclovir and valacyclovir dramatically reduces the risk of developing dementia.
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55423-9
[2] https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/news/antivirals-for...
Curious, would this be hard to verify? To a layman that sounds like something that would be easily detectable under a microscope using samples of brain.
Sounds fascinating, where could one read more about this? I don’t think I’ve come across this before.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7882534/
[2] https://alzres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13195-021...
And here's a clinical trial that's been running since 2018, scheduled for conclusion at EOY 2024.
[3] https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03282916
This is a very in-depth hypothesis paper that explains more.
[1] https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/caution-advised-with-low-his...
MCAS is particularly over diagnosed right now. The number of patients who think they have MCAS based on TikTok and Internet forums is so bad that most doctors have no choice but to assume it’s not a real diagnosis unless the patient has actually supporting test results in their file. Usually when you ask an “MCAS” patient how they were diagnosed, you get a long story about how their vague symptoms can be explained by MCAS according to something they saw on the internet.
The saddest part of the internet MCAS phenomenon is all of the people on Reddit and TikTok who have been convinced they have MCAS and can’t understand why all of the antihistamines and mast cell stabilizers and special diets aren’t fixing their problems. The fact that they probably don’t have MCAS and histamine doesn’t explain their symptoms just can be accepted after they’ve become immersed in online MCAS communities.
My own research was the only way I got clear of an illness I had after what the doctors gave me didn't work.
It's easy to feel like stupid people are falling for reddit bullshit (and if course some are), but reddit is a potentially huge sample of empirical reports. Even if their reasoning is wrong it doesn't always mean they csn't find cures. That's how we got most medicines in history anyway.
Secondly reddit etc are full of highly motivated, desperate people. You might become one yourself one day too. The saddest part is their illness, not their trying to do something about it.
NO this is not a survey and it is not even an invitation to a flamewar. I would urge everyone to consider correlation themselves and privately and honestly, and consider the possibility.
In 2021 after years stable on his meds, my 83 year old Dad died 10 DAYS after his first Moderna, COVID negative. Pulmonary thrombosis. Ironically, an earlier vaxed friend who took on a bizarre errand to try to convince me that was likely a 'coincidence' and angered me so much I un-friended him, just died of 'heart complications'.
mRNA particles and spikes are too small. Lipid mRNA always escapes the injection site, even into unborn babies. There is delay before mRNA infected cells become active factories, and then a further delay before there are tiny spikes as well. Then finally depleted factories become scar tissue and clotting in the most sensitive regions of the body including the brain. None of these things are directly harmful by themselves. There's just too many, too quickly. I believe the phenomenon would be a delayed onset, whole body anaphylaxis reaction. If the heart or lungs are affected there is danger of mortality, as there was for Dad. But there could be long term effects too.
Another danger is corruption of medical science, when a particular "highly possible cause" goes without mention or further study, and existing studies make assumptions to tiptoe along a tightrope.
The first question I would have for researchers on long COVID topic today is, is it controlled for vaccination/booster status? And what are the results of the specific classes of patient?
Just think about it.
Beta blockers seem to have helped a little bit, at least my pulse doesn't just sit at 80 all the time. I find myself angry at getting so little done... until I do something... and then WHAM... that was a mistake.
Brain rot in the form of social media. Cognitive decline from possible long COVID. Constant exposure to microplastics from various sources (water contamination, water bottles, plastic wrapping, cars via tire breakdown).
This timeline fucking sucks.
Hot water can be taken for granted, as can indoor toilets. And central heating.
With modern electronics and circuitry you can’t even kill yourself with a toaster in the bathtub since it will trip the central breaker.
Every generation goes through the same shit in one version or another.
Polio was diagnosed in an unvaccinated man in upstate NY (2022) [1]
The anti vax movement and distrust of science has exploded since social media.
> of the west there isn’t much of a concern about a mother dying giving birth.
Depends on the state, or country. In the US, legality of abortion is left up to the states due to repeal of Roe v Wade by SCOTUS that’s hell bent on this Christian crusade.
Women have resorted to unsafe methods of abortion where traveling to an abortion clinic is not viable. In one case of a TX women, state courts refused to allow abortion to save mother [2]. She was fortunate to be able to travel to another state and get the medically required abortion.
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/21/health/new-york-polio/index.h...
[2] https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/11/texas-abortion-lawsu...
It’s important context because of the insular nature of these types of communities - the splash damage of a polio or measles outbreak has limited impact outside of the community.
Outside of these isolated areas, most of the slow burn is within the MAGA cult of personality, which will likely start to break and fade over the coming years, along with the pandemic memory.
We must fix that construct: "«distrust [] has exploded since social media»". Which makes some sense, it is expectable in broad terms.
In 2021 a large wave of communication appropriated the banner of Science, through voices that had clearly never seen science in a postcard. (It probably varied with regional communication.) So, distrust spread.
What you are seeing is a crisis in authority - which also causes the first phenomenon of the rise of ignorant voices.
distrust of science comes from the fact that something that had nothing to do with Science was called Science and used against people. Mind you that the scientific method is all about debating hypotheses not censoring dissenting voices, which is exactly what happened during the Covid era. Of course distrust will spread.
The problem is that the direction of improvement in lives has changed.
Compare today to the 90s and there’s very little reason to believe that today is better than the 90s in a developed country.
What’s frustrating is that we have MORE tools to be in a much better shape right now. We have things available to us today that people wouldn’t have dreamt of in the 90s, including smartphones. But unfortunately, those tools are being used almost entirely for the concentration of wealth in the hands of the few and for disinforming and misleading people to accelerate the concentration of wealth.
Be careful where you get your data - news is biased towards sensationalism and negativity.
https://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2011-005.pdf
Today it is at 5 per 1,000.
Please read a history book before you start supporting a reset to what we used to have.
> would have been in clover to have just those problems
off-topic but this is the first time i've seen the idiom "in clover" before and had to look it up... interestingThe wisdom of the wise men will perish. Isaiah 29:14
For it is written: "I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectuals I will reject." 1. Corinthians 1:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: "He catches the wise in their own cunning." 1. Corinthians 3:19
The wise have been put to shame. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the word of Jehovah, And what wisdom do they have? Jeremiah 8:9
Corinthians, in the New Testament, as far as it is relevant has a better standing, coming from the standpoint of illustrating that Wisdom as it is to the Almighty looks entirely different to Wisdom according to mortals, for things happen in Eternity, that a population of transient mortals may not see or recall for generations. At best though, the scripture isn't indicating this is God's active intent/doing, but taken at face value Human Wisdom != God's Wisdom. Not necessarily useful on our timescales except as a reminder that things can happen that can completely turn established order on it's head, nothing is set in stone and impossible to see change, and that in those Times, it is important to remember we are not perfect, and to meet the adversity in question with humility, and a courage underpinned by faith. Regardless of the particulars of your faith, it isn't terrible advice or Scripture. Certainly more timeless than the Isaiah verse. 3:19 is much the same schtick.
Props for casting where angels fear to tread. It will largely land on deaf/unprepared/unwilling ears however. Then again, you got me to actually look at the book, so you might consider that a win I suppose. Given the room, don't be surprised if there is a poor reception.
its ridiculous to use such a thing to degrade modern intellectual persuit.
please keep your 1st century book of wooly mumblings in the tax free echo chambers where it belongs, adults are talking.
But for sure if you focus yourself on all the negative since its so juicy it will easily drag you down the pit of despair. At any point of time in mankind's history there was plenty of bad stuff happening, often cataclysmic compared to our times.
Hear me out.
Cat poop has something in it ("Toxo") that makes mice less afraid of cats. Win for cats.
I see so much scientifically-unsound* anti-vaxx hysteria from people who used to be otherwise quite intelligent and rational, that I suspect that Covid has done a number on them (like "Toxo" does a number on mice).
* IMHO, there can be rational hesitation to vaxx (Precautionary Principle, etc.) but I'm seeing "science-based mumbo jumbo".
I'm against COVID "vaccines". What are COVID "vaccines"? An injection of mRNA genetic material that spreads around the body and reprograms your own cells to manufacture bits of the disease, so the immune system can blah blah etc.
Now please explain to me, why is the mRNA experimental gene therapy a required component of vaccination? Why couldn't they just inject bits of the virus like literally every single vaccine has worked since their invention? Why did we need to reprogram healthy people's cells to manufacture spike proteins that are like tiny little knives stabbing them from the inside, forever?
Well because vaccinating the population against the disease was never the goal. The goal was to push a mandatory genetic experiment and see if people react. They didn't. So get ready for your next round of mandatory gene therapy under the guise of "vaccination"!
The best evidence available suggests most cases of "long COVID" are misattribution:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
https://jamanetwork.com/searchresults?q=long%20covid&allSite...
For example, I had two extremely mild cases of covid, but also long-not-covid symptoms from something worse (probably rsv, flu, or ???).
Similarly, there are a ton of psychological/developmental issues among covid-generation kids. For many, the lockdown and school closures were probably the main cause, but some probably have issues from covid itself.