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sitkack

Yes

The pallet price of solar panels in the US is below 30 cents a watt.

https://a1solarstore.com/wholesale-solar-panels.html

And from alibaba, it is below 15 cents a watt.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Longi-solar-Hi-MO-X6-...

With full systems below $1/watt. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Moregosolar-hybrid-so...

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The price to get solar installed in the US is insanely high compared to the cost of the materials. I've seen my extended family get quotes north of 40k for modest installs. I got a modest system with batter for around 9k in the EU, and id say I'd install the same for under 5k at today's prices.

A kitchen remodel in a high income city in the US is 75k-100k for something basic. The lopsidedness of US prices for light construction projects is a huge problem.

And there I was, thinking spending ~£€10k each for two kitchens recently was extravagant.

What country are you based?

One is in the UK, the other is in Germany.

Did that net you a dishwasher?

Dishwashers cost 300-500 EUR in Europe.

In the German one, yes. The UK kitchen didn't have one, and while I'm not 100% sure why — was handled by my rental agency, with me deferring to them entirely for whoever they suggested for the work and whatever design they suggested for the layout — I suspect it may have been too small.

But the cost of a dishwasher is a small fraction of the rounding error, and I was rounding up quite a bit in both cases — even the (more expensive) German one is EUR 8903 with dishwasher, hob, sink, delivery, installation, and all taxes.

Germany has commoditised kitchen installation. Perhaps because kitchens are often not included with the apartment?

That causes kitchens here to be often modular and removable — I've literally seen someone take their kitchen sink with them on a tram here.

The kitchen I got here, is a permanent installation, because my partner didn't want the normal German style.

You got to get multiple bids. I had a small remodel job. I got three bids. One was for 3x the lowest bid, one was about double the lowest bid. After evaluating, I contracted with the company that did the middle bid and they did a great job. Not getting multiple bids on something that pricey is really financially irresponsible, IMHO.

Ikea will sell you kitchens for 4k including appliances and set everything up for 2k. In Europe. (without electricity and plumbing)

You forgot that in US kitchens are huge. Could be bigger than typical studio apartment in a crowded EU city.

True. 40k is the most I can think that 98% of people would ever spend on a kitchen in Europe.

Ingenious question, huge to do what, exactly? I manage to cook for 4 people in my tiny kitchen, what's the purpose of such big kitchens?

11k for my house in MA net of a few thousand in subsidies last year.

I don't think I really believe your quote of 40k. Does that even break even on energy bill savings?

Exactly, it makes no financial sense, you'd never get payback on it at that price. The company offering it had payment plans and all, with 0% interest, to make it more attractive, but that's just part of the grift.

I'm in the Seattle metro area and 25K to 40K is very common. They tell you all kinds of subsidies and payback periods but the out of pocket or loan is always in that range. And payback periods are terrible here given the weather.

My parents spent $18K on rooftop solar in the Boise metro area. One Tesla powerwall battery and install on top of that will be another $15K.

And the Powerwall is also a ripoff vs many other options. 5kw battery module can be for for 1.2k, so 3 modules give 15kwh for under 5k

depends on the market. The 5kw options i was quoted were Enphase 5p batteries, average price from multiple installers was $5k per battery installed.

Compared to this, 15kwh for under 5k https://midlandbatteries.com/products/dyness-15kwh-dl5-0c-ba...

Needs an inverter though, but if you have solar you already should be ok

It's very real. I was recently quoted 30k-43k for 7kw of panels, 13.5kwh of battery, along with reworking some electrical panels. The one coming in at the top of the range were baking in a ton of profit and willing to negotiate down once shown the other quotes. In the end i completely passed, it just doesn't make sense to pay 30k to avoid 3k a year in electric bills.

Well, a battery is going to boost it substantially

with how pricing works here battery is basicaly a necessity. They will pay 3-8c /kwh during the day for extra production, and charge 50-65c/kwh when you don't have enough production. Well, maybe necessity is a bit strong. That's only a $5-$8/day swing on a 13kwh battery. But it adds up.

5kwh battery module for 1.2k in the EU. 13.5kw should be under 5k. Any system north of 15k is price gouging, unless the system is huge.

Where do you get batteries that cheap? I’ve been following the market here in the Netherlands and it is about €1000/kWh, going down a bit for batteries approaching 10kWh. Although, I haven’t checked for the last 6 months.

This is a local supplier of Dyness batteries, 15kwh for under 4.5k

https://midlandbatteries.com/products/dyness-15kwh-dl5-0c-ba...

Just look at the r/solar for similar quotes.

Here’s a $51k quote for 12kW with 5kW battery: https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/s/Fema45FkDx

That's obscene. Less than 10k of materials (and they can probably source it cheaper than a regular joe like me), 5k labour. 35k profit is a bit much....

I paid $50k for 24kWh nameplate capacity with no battery, fully installed and integrated, a year ago at 2% interest (the only reason it made sense to even do the deal). My electric bill went from an average of $350/mo to $16/mo (the minimum to stay connected), while the loan payment is ~$300. My cost for the materials alone would have been ~$30-35k (I needed higher power individual panels to get the capacity I needed, and went with a micro inverter setup for higher reliability). Equipment rental would have been another $3k because I had to dig a trench out to my detached garage to fit the entire system, and I don't own a 30 ft ladder to reach my roof. Electrical work has to be signed off on by a licensed electrician. Engineering schematics of the electrical system have to be created. Permits with the city have to be filed. Another $1-2k. For another $10k: I got to keep the week of vacation I would have needed to burn, someone else is responsible for fixing defects in the system, and I didn't have to spend the mental bandwidth on all the ins and outs of the whole shebang. The installers finished the system in a day, and had it turned on generating power after all the bureaucracy hurdles were cleared a few weeks in.

When I can afford it, the next project is add enough battery capacity to effectively go off grid.

Do you mind saying what company and which end of MA?

I did a system earlier this year with My Generation Energy, coincidentally while I was interviewing for the CPO role at Aurora Solar (where I am now).

Highly recommend MGE if you’re in the Cape Cod area. Not sure how far off Cape they’ll go if not.

Looks like they're based in Hyannis, but the website says they cover Greater Boston, so I'll give them a call.

Thank you for responding!!!

Your $40k price is the high end and only in some markets, and has a whole lot more to do with regional labor costs than anything else. The same system would probably be $15k installed in another market. And that's before the enormous subsidies that are on offer in many states.

Or if you're at all handy and willing to educate yourself, you can DIY it for a fraction of the cost. That's obviously not for everyone, but you don't need any professional skills. You could hire an electrician if you want to be grid-tied.

Yeah, holy balls. My neighbor got theirs installed for $11k all-inclusive $9k after the Biden subsidy. And that included a complete replacement and expansion of their electrical panel to to accommodate it. $40k sounds unreal they better be gold plated.

Probably just in California. Everything there is gold-plated pricing.

My FIL has basically decided to just install his own solar from now on after getting quoted 10's of thousands of dollars in install labor cost for a job that he ended up doing himself in less than a day. And yes, it was done to code and spec (he's an engineer who runs a small manufacturing company, so the job was well within his skill set).

> I've seen my extended family get quotes north of 40k for modest installs.

They got the "fuck off" price because there's far more demand that supply at the moment. When businesses have more work than they can handle, they'll give customers quotes with absurd markups like that. It's enough money that it's worth the disruption if the customer actually wants it that bad, but they also don't really want the customer.

It's super annoying to me to be paying $250 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment in Texas for electricity when $2200 of panels, which would be 8000 watts, would be more than enough for my needs during the day (as long as I didn't run the dryer at the same time as the AC, and also accounting for a 400W panel not usually making full power). Obviously other expensive hardware is needed too, but still.

Do you have a balcony facing south? You might be able to just buy some solar panels, a battery, and a microinverter and set it up on your balcony. You won't be able to sell your electricity back to the grid, but you can perhaps greatly reduce the amount of grid electricity you use.

wholesale it's €0.07/watt (peak) https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

I have used to https://www.solarpricewatcher.com/ to find panels.

Misses the point of the article, which is to explore far beyond that cost.

It doesn't, this is a snapshot of the costs now, you know what they were 5 years ago you can extrapolate a curve. The costs are still falling and will continue to fall.

I should be able to supply a data point of the cost of panels today without getting admonished as being off-topic, rtfm.

Yes it does miss the point. Panels are no longer the expensive part of solar. The expensive part is now things like labour, installation, and land acquisition, and bringing those costs down is going to be hard.

My links showed that panels are demonstrably not the primary cost.

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