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Comment by datahack | Hacker News Reader

You think this is bad? Try swimming pool equipment.

I think home EV charging equipment is heading in the same direction as well. Very few have local and open APIs and instead depend on the vendors cloud service for control.

Yeah, but EV chargers are not that complicated. They are just smart contactors, with maaaybe some load management (EVSE can command the vehicle to reduce the charging rate).

Worst case, you just buy another one. It'll set you back a couple hundred dollars. Unpleasant, but not a big deal.

Air conditioning systems can easily cost more than $10k.

> (EVSE can command the vehicle to reduce the charging rate)

That's just a PWM signal on one of the pilot pins, it's not even that complex.

Agreed, I couldn’t find a reasonable choice and ended up making https://github.com/jagheterfredrik/wallbox-mqtt-bridge

I don't know where you live, but in Europe there is a standardized backoffice management protocol that you can link up to basically anything in modern chargers. Except the cheapest of the cheapest.

I have mine running through EVCC.io, setting it up was as simple as throwing that thing in a docker container and figuring out the IP address of the chargepoint.

Does this necessarily go through a third party server, or can it all be run locally?

I am confused - aren't these boxes basically fancy three phase outlets? They probably have some safety fuses and some comms equipment, but the 'core' of the system is basically copper wire that connects you to the grid.

Here in the UK at least they're generally single phase and required to moderate the power delivered to the vehicle based on the current electrical load in the house because most properties have quite low main cut-out fuse ratings. Bonus complications if you have solar or want any kind of access control.

> aren't these boxes basically fancy three phase outlets?

That entirely depends LOL

So for AC chargers you are correct - 1 or 3 phases that go through a relay and, where required by code such as in Germany, a DC-sensitive RCBO, plus a small control board negotiating with the vehicle and monitoring voltage/current on one side and, again depending on where required by code, negotiating with the grid operator.

DC chargers are one hell of another beast, these have to contain all of the above plus powerful rectifiers, smoothing capacitors, EMI compliance...

There is OCPP (Open Charge Point Protocol). There's quite a bit of choice in supported wallboxes. Here is Europe at least.

At least swimming pool equipment is mostly just turning things on and off. If you look at the controller board for any given pool "timer" it's just a bunch of relays (for the pump, lights, and valves/servos).

Temperature sensors are all standardized for the most part (well, they don't seem to be anything special) but I'm not sure about chlorinators... Mine has a strange (electrical) connector and 100% proprietary threads on the PVC connectors (that were easy enough to reverse engineer in OpenSCAD: https://www.printables.com/model/24144-t-cell-cleaning-stand).

Fortunately there's plenty of 3rd party competition for things like that. Even though I had a Hayward system I was able to purchase a compatible chlorinator off Amazon for a fraction of the price Hayward was charging.

I just spent an afternoon recreating the custom threads on a Hayward chlorinator for my dad so I could 3D print a temporary replacement part. These don’t even use standard pipe fitting thread. -_-

Both of these examples, and others, sound like an underserved market.

Exactly. This is what happens when a market is so small they can overcharge for terrible technology.

I figure a couple of SWEs could make a startup that completely disrupts these industries with objectively superior technology.

Technology doesn’t matter, it’s all about relationships between dealers and manufacturers (or dealer/distributor/manufacturer, I am unfamiliar with this particular industry.) That holds true both for HVAC and pool equipment (and fire alarm systems, irrigation, etc etc)

If you can’t sell your product to the dealers because there in bed with the incumbents and the incumbent products generate service call work for the dealer, it doesn’t matter how good the tech is.

This is a people problem, not a technology problem. It can’t be solved by a couple programmers.

You offer direct to consumer sales and cut out the dealer-distributor corruption pipeline - like Tesla, Nest, etc.

Pool equipment isn’t usable out of the box like a car or a thermostat, someone has to install it and service/maintain it.

Unless you want to build your own nationwide network of installers, you’re relying on third parties who already have existing relationships with pool equipment suppliers, which is why I said it’s a people problem and not a tech problem.

You think that’s bad? Try tanning bed control equipment.

Tell us about that!

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