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Comment by itohihiyt | Hacker News Reader

I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime, at least not where I live. But facilitating a crime, which is something you could accuse telegram of is.

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CSAM is different - in the US, as well as france, the law designates the service provider as a mandatory reporter. If you find CSAM and don't report the user who posted it to authorities (and Telegram have phone numbers of users) then they are breaking the law.

https://www.icmec.org/csam-model-legislation/

> I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime

That heavily depends on the jurisdiction. It's explicitly a crime in Germany, for example: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__138.html

On top of that, if you can be shown to benefit from the crime (e.g. by knowingly taking payment for providing services to those that commit it), that presumably makes you more than just a bystander in most jurisdictions anyway.

That link you posted is 1) about very specific crimes (treason, murder, manslaughter, genocide etc.) and 2) it applies only when you hear about a crime that is being planned but which has not been committed yet (and can still be prevented).

It is only for specific crimes not all crimes and there are exemptions when you don’t have to report the crime in Germany. For example family members don’t have to report if they try to convince the other party not to do it. Priests and other religious figures don’t have to do it. Lawyers, physicians, therapists etc. are also exempted.

It is also only for upcoming not yet accomplished crimes. Crimes already happened don’t have to be reported.

Also it has to be proven that you received the plan in a plausibel manner.

You're technically right (I think). However, I believe if you witness a murder and know the murderer and the police asks you: "Do you know anything about X murder?" Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.

> Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.

Or you can just not respond, at least in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination

I don't think it's necessarily self-incrimination to report a crime you witnessed, though I think it's dependent based on the time from when it occurred to the time of reporting.

That only applies if you're the defendant.

If you're the witness to a murder and you're subpoena'd to court and refuse to testify then you are committing contempt of court. There was a guy in Illinois who got 20 years (reduced to 6 on appeal) for refusing to testify in a murder.

https://illinoiscaselaw.com/clecourses/contempt-of-court-max...

Contempt of court usually has no boundaries on the punishment, nor any jury trials. A judge can just order you to be executed on the spot if you say, fall asleep in his courtroom. Sheriffs in Illinois have the same unbridled power over jail detainees.

i think in actual practice you will rarely get contempt for refusing to testify or taking the fifth for questions that could only tenuously implicate yourself in practice.

Usually if you let the prosecutor know up-front that you're not willing to cooperate they will tend to save themselves the hassle of trying. It can go wrong if they subpoena a belligerent witness, then they don't turn up on the day they're supposed to testify, and now the jury is empaneled and they start doing a dance where they demand the sheriff finds the witness, but then the clock runs out on holding the jury and it's a mistrial all round.

That guy needed a better lawyer. He could just have said "I don't remember. Can't say for sure" repeatedly

Yes, "I don't recall" is the oft-heard phrase in the witness stand. I don't remember the specifics of that case and why the guy decided to martyr himself.

Such laws exist in most countries. I'm not aware of any that provide such a right to business entities though.

I think in most modern democracies you aren’t legally required to tell the police anything. Courts are a different case though.

As a suspect. At least in court, as a completely non-involved bystander you have no right of refusal to testify in most jurisdictions.

Not sure whether that extends to police questioning though.

It doesn’t extend to police questioning, i also pointed out it’s a different thing when you are in a court. For the police an innocent bystander can turn into a suspect real fast.

The English common law tradition has a crime called “misprision”. Misprision of treason is the felony of knowing someone has committed or is about to commit treason but failing to report it to the authorities.

It still exists in many jurisdictions, including the UK, the US (it is a federal crime under 18 U.S. Code § 2382, and also a state crime in most states), Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Ireland.

Related was the crime “misprision of felony”, which was failure to report a felony (historically treason was not classed as a felony, rather a separate more serious category of crime). Most common law jurisdictions have abolished it, in large part due to the abolition of the felony-misdemeanour distinction. However, in the US (which retains that distinction), it is a federal crime (18 U.S. Code § 4). However, apparently case law has narrowed that offence to require active concealment rather than merely passive failure to report (which was its original historical meaning)

Many of the jurisdictions which have abolished misprision of felony still have laws making it a crime not to report certain categories of crime, such as terrorism or child sexual abuse

If someone says I need a cab for after I rob a bank and you give them a ride after waiting then you’re almost certainly an accessory. If they flag a random cab off the street then not.

Depending on the jurisdiction and the crime and the circumstances an act of omission (like ignoring a murder) would be suspicious and may get you charged with aiding and abetting.

Generally, there is no general legal obligation for bystanders or witnesses to report a crime, but there are exceptions.

To what jurisdiction are you referring?

As far as I know all western judicial systems, both civil and common law. But as I said, there are exceptions for certain professions, and situations.

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