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Comment by vasco | Hacker News Reader

The difference is that math is the only field of study of things that are 100% true about the universe. It's the most pure knowledge that humanity has, so it's normal people recognize it. You can read 100 philosophy books and maybe you will learn a few things that are correct among all the rambling, but everything you learn from the basics of math proof by proof all the way "up", you can be assured everything is true. There's something special about this field of knowledge that nothing else has.

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In a sense even this is not true, as in any sufficiently complex (which turns out to be quite simple) formal system you can create proofs that are true and untrue at the same time creating a contradiction. In other words, mathematics works by setting up useful axioms and following up on the logical consequences, but they usually can be used to create contradictory proofs even if useful in many problems.

I recommend learning about Gödel’s incompleteness theorem behind it all.

For a pop science book that explains it nicely I recommend ”I am a strange loop”. The wiki intro is also quite good

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompletenes...

Math is not about the universe, it would be true even if the universe didn’t exist at all.

It is, however, about turtles.

There must be a word for everything, so just replace with whatever you want instead, if universe triggers you.

Wait a minute, the universe as we know it, is a model of a universe, the way we humans understand it today.

That model is flawed, this is in fact the basis of science.

The latest scientific finding is considered true until... a more advanced model proves that there are cases where it is not true. A thrown object on earth follows a parabole? ... no it follows a straight line, the space around it is bent by a force that is known as the gravitational field.

What about math itself, no universe considered?

Math itself follows axioms which cannot be proven. Since we found no contradictions in the maths built upon those axioms, we consider those axioms to be true. You can think however of axioms on which you can build equations that are true and untrue at the same time.

My point being, whether we like it or not, the Truth with a capital T does not exist or at least cannot be proven.

Cannot be proven, physically. Mathematical truths prove themselves with their application to physical motion, e.g. Fourier Transformation, such extension of logical principles unto physical body sensations in contact with an external world is great evidence for myself that mathematical reasoning self-reliance in its ordering is great.

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