A $10k stipend is available for anyone moving to Cumberland, MD
ci.cumberland.md.us
ci.cumberland.md.us
Man does SV have stories to tell that will be lost to us old BOFH ilk:
Qwest communications came about when the railroad realized they had rights to the easement lanes on either side of ALL their train tracks, that allowed them to basically do anything they wanted with that strip of land.
So Qwest Communications was born to run fiber along all the tracks and built a huge fiber infra.
There was a huge scandal with the telecom giants, and Qwest's CEO was convicted:
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Dossier: Qwest Communications
Creation and Early Years
- Qwest Communications was formed in 1996 as a spin-off from the Southern Pacific Railroad Company. The railroad company had been granted easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along their tracks, which Qwest leveraged to build a massive fiber-optic network.
Fiber-Optic Network Expansion
- Qwest used the easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along the railroad tracks, expanding their network across the western United States. This strategic move allowed Qwest to:
- Reduce costs: By utilizing existing railroad easements, Qwest avoided the need to purchase or lease land for their fiber-optic cables.
- Increase efficiency: The railroad tracks provided a direct route for fiber-optic cables, reducing the need for detours and minimizing signal degradation.
Scandal and Conviction of CEO Joseph Nacchio
- In 2005, Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio was convicted of insider trading and sentenced to six years in prison. The scandal involved Nacchio selling millions of dollars' worth of Qwest stock while aware of the company's financial struggles.
Scale of Fiber Plant
- Qwest built an extensive fiber-optic network, spanning over 190,000 miles across the United States. This massive infrastructure enabled Qwest to offer high-speed data and voice services to customers.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...
https://www.npr.org/2012/10/15/162963607/sprint-born-from-ra...
China is an interesting example, in that it was so well ahead of the curve until around 1700s. In the 1800s, when telegraphs were connecting the Western world together, the Qing dynasty China would not have been able to participate unless pictographs could be encoded as easily as letters (let alone the century of uprisings, rebellions, and civil war).
But look at Tang Dynasty China. The Silk Road was a part of a global trade network reaching through the Middle East, and into Africa, along with maritime routes from India.
It wasn’t just trade goods that travelled. Ideas — religious, cultural, technological, flowed along the network. But they travelled only as fast as trade goods.
I think it is when information is able to flow faster than the physical items that, we might find some insights about what is going on now.
A rural community based on a single industry is always high risk for economic sustainability.
Silicon Valley is has cities older than the USA, was grown by the gold rush, the early movie studios, the defense industry (plus some world class universities), NASA contractors, microelectronics, etc. The most recent iteration is software startups.
Cities are always more resilient than isolated rural communities because they are inherently more diversified in both economy and workforce.
Longnow.org has a lot of material about the resilience of cities over very long time scales (like, millennia).
Here’s an example on the resilience of cities versus corporations: https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-gr...
Another example, from a longnow podcast, is the tendency of people to think of themselves as citizens of a particular city (I’m from San Francisco, I’m from Venice, I’m from Helsinki), perhaps even more so than a state/province or a nationality in some cases.
It's gotten way better, though. The main problem with using it on the go is that campgrounds have trees and Starlink hates trees. If you're in one place, that problem doesn't exist, so long as you have a clear northern sky view.
The disconnection thing is a non-issue. I use it for video meetings every day at work. It never disconnects for more than a second or two, and I almost never notice it. Connections always recover on their own and almost instantly.
I wonder if it's geographically variable. How often do satellites switches happen?
I'm working on a project[0] where I sourced this from the FCC Broadband data and am curious about what people are looking for in that respect.
[0] https://www.exoroad.com/us/Maryland/Allegany-County/housing
For someone who relies on a internet connection for their professional work I'd say 100 Mbps is the floor of "good" in 2024. I think that's what the FCC updated their definition of broadband to earlier this year.
Unfortunately, knowing that fiber is a mere 0.5 miles from my house doesn't help me in the slightest.
I actually asked some of the neighbors about it and called local ISPs.
More generally, there is a little funkiness with the exoroad site. I guess this project is still in the assembly stage?
- When I search for a US county, say Culpeper or Fairfax in Virginia, I get the map and then some very stock images. The images are on things that don't exist in the specific county. E.g. Fairfax doesn't have a cathedral and a giant stately home.
- The crime stats are also a bit weirdly presented. If a county is "9 of 10" for crime that makes it sound terrible...but I think you render it in green to show that it's good? And what does the statistic actually mean? "out of 10 equivalently populated counties?" say, or something else?
Images have quality problems, like you described, as I haven't got accuracy figured out across the 3k+ counties.
Crime stat is awkward because everything else 9/10 (schools / snow) sounds like good or a lot. But with crime, it's a feature that people want less of. Since there's so many features I went with 10/10 is consistently good, but I do keep getting feedback about this that maybe I should change it.
Out of 10 is a percentile: 10/10 = top 10%, 9/10 = top 20%, 1/10 = bottom 10%. I'm trying to figure out the right granularity between showing the most important info for quickly figuring out the stat, vs. showing all the details about it, because there's 50 features, with another potential 50, and many have multiple ways of thinking about it. So it can quickly become a deluge of info without the right UI to surface <-> deep.
I really appreciate the feedback and my email is eric@exoroad.com in case this is off topic.
While that’s slower than my cable service in the city, for him, it’s a significant improvement and a big quality of life upgrade.
No one's getting worse than DSL performance in the US especially not with regards to speeds
They also have various speakeasies fully in the classic unlicensed since but for obvious reasons I won't say where. I would call it a "deregulated" region. Whereas in most of MD you have vehicle emissions and all that redtape, none of it in cumberland.
there are methheads about but police force and community are hand in hand and highly functional
if you're in cumberland proper all you could want is walkable, including an amtrak station that links you directly to DC and chicago, walking distance
there is an aspect of xenophobia but generally if you live there a while, well, if you're willing to live in cumberland that's good enough for most people to welcome you. it does have a small town vibe as far as saying hello to everyone on the sidewalk as such
the other point people who visit may miss about appalachian culture (it is appalachian culture very much so, not maryland culture) is everyone dresses like a methhead, even people who aren't methheads, so take appearences softly.
Edit: speak up, annoyant... "Distance" is "standing apart". It is not confined to space - in fact, the original meaning is that of "diverging in stances" (i.e. a quarrel), and the geometric one comes one century later. And there exist languages where speaking of "distance in time" is language in use - so, if in your neighborhood they don't speak this way, it is a problem of your neighborhood.
What you don’t appreciate is that it’s not just the added distance, it’s all the extra uncertainty. Losing an extra hour due to getting stuck on the highway behind an accident is a thing you have to account for.
So in the end you end up having to leave like 4 hours or more before your flight.
I live 400 miles in a straight line and I can drive to downtown Atlanta faster than I can fly to the Atlanta airport.
And then … they come back to the city. Because the older you are the more medical care you need, and there just aren’t enough doctors down there, or in any other regional area.
Hospital chains and healthcare systems have been consolidating like crazy for decades and it's still going strong - 80 or so hospitals merge every year. PE has also been snapping up private practices like crazy, too.
https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/ten-things-to-k...
I was rather impressed with the nurse practitioner at a CVS Instant Clinic a couple of months back. I could have tried to get an appointment with my primary care when I got home. But when I actually saw her a few weeks later for a scheduled appointment, she basically shrugged and said she'd have done exactly the same thing the nurse practitioner did. (Keep taking Tussin and there's a prescription for an inhaler at the pharmacy counter.)
Pre-COVID (and the test I took was negative for what little that was worth), it would have been eh you have a virus. Which ended up basically the diagnosis.
Why would you think this is sarcasm? The availability of capable surgeons is already limited; when looking geographically, they are extremely limited.
You would have surgical assistants and nurses on the ground, but the actual expertise for surgery shouldn't be location dependent.
Drive down any number of the "hollars," and you'll see an active smokehouse, yard litter, and an (often abused) wife sitting on the porch.
There are neighborhood kids endlessly circling the streets. An otherwise innocuous occurrence, however in this case the child is pushing 30 years old.
As other folks have commented, there’s some beautiful architecture and the old part of the city seems like it could be a bustling place. There’s a train station and easy access to the great outdoors. But the jobs have long gone and drug addiction has taken root for so many there. I don’t know the best way to revive a place like that but I hope something eventually works.
You don’t. Times change, and what used to provide utility may no longer provide utility, and the only option is to move on.
Let's say some big software company wanted to build second HQ. Even if Cumberland was attractive in workforce, education options and so forth, the architects would say "Building your HQ2 is going to be rough. There isn't enough flat land, flooding could be problematic, fiber companies are screaming about the trenching" Not to mention, where are you going to put all your workers since housing will run into same problem. So if you wanted to stay in MD, somewhere like Hagerstown or Salisbury would be a better choice since usable land is plentiful.
Wrong. Seattle, Oakland and Los Angeles are mostly built on much flatter parts of those areas. California entire geography is about "Hey, check out these massive valleys or coastal land we can build in." Same thing with Washington State, Seattle is in between Cascades and Olympics where there is all this flat land to build on. Yes, they running out of land and building into mountains now. That problem is like having FAANG scaling problems. It sucks but it's good/manageable problem to have and you have massive checkbooks to help solve it.
Have you been to Appalachia? It's not on the coast and does not have these benefits. If you want to compare it to West Coast areas, it's more like Sierra Nevada. Inland Mountains with only small valleys to build infrastructure in.
Seattle was MADE flat by literally using fire hoses to flatten hills and mountains [0].
That said, I disagree with the role geography has with developing a tech industry - most of it can be directly related to investment put during WW2 and the 1950s into innovation clusters.
For example, Seattle and aerospace (Boeing), Bay Area and computers+electronics+nukes (HP, IBM Almaden, LLNL, LLBL, Los Alamos managed by UCB), San Diego and Biotech+Defense Tech (Salk Lab, Navy), Portland and electronics (INL, PNNL, Tektronics, Intel), etc
The Bay Area really benefits from Stanford and Berkeley being there. You need a steady stream of educated new grads to grow from.
Love that museum. Paul Allen really made Seattle such a great city - amazing museums, good sports, amazing biotech research, strong entrepreneurship scene. It's like Boston but better.
> Bay Area really benefits from Stanford and Berkeley
Also UCSF (major biotech hub) and SJSU (major electronics hub - imo EE@SJSU makes EE@Stanford look like child's play).
[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Sausalit...
[2] https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/9...
Cumberland, MD vs San Francisco. Wow, when I overlay urban areas of Bay Area, it's heavily built up in much flatter areas and gets much less dense as elevation change gets steeper. Not to mention, sea access gives you massive advantage since you are not having to move as much over really tall mountains.
Cumberland, MD has none of these. It's in a valley between two larger ridges of mountains but is heavily constrained. Also, not having sea access means transporting goods there is much more difficult and requires more infrastructure. And since we are one nation, you could just move west to much flatter Ohio and Great Lakes or East to flat parts of Maryland and Chesapeake Bay.
Sure, Bay area built up with creating really excellent schools that created really high paying industries but thinking it was "We lifted ourselves up by our bootstraps" and instead "Our geography and World War with Navy on our coast desperate to win really did help us."
Other strategies have worked to gentrify depressed neighborhoods, like attracting bohemians or entrepreneurs with lower rents and tax relief, based on a strict qualification process.
But say, 10 acres of land, with utility access/hookups? I may really consider it. By offering free land, with requirement that you build a stick house and live in it, you can ensure whoever is moving there has funds to build a house.
But on the inside, brittle plaster walls (hard to hang anything), lead paint covered by about 1/4 inch of repeated repainting, finicky radiant heating, sparse electrical outlets usually ungrounded, 100 year old plumbing, literally zero central air or proper ventilation anywhere (= upper levels are a sauna… look for a single HVAC grate anywhere), legacy window and door hardware that can’t be replaced… the list goes on. Every improvement project risks disrupting decades of toxic building materials and carefully grandfathered code violations.
In the UK houses of that type are the standard and renovated all the time.
> The package, offering up to $20,000 is comprised of $10,000 in relocation cash, PLUS up to $10,000, dollar for dollar match, for approved renovations on an existing home, OR for a down payment on a newly constructed home within City limits.
Not “A $10k stipend is available for anyone moving to Cumberland, MD” as the submission title says currently , which sounded like a basic income.
AND/OR a gift for their local construction workers: "... receive up to $10,000, dollar for dollar match, for approved renovations ... on an existing home ... or for a down payment on a newly constructed home ..."
Although actually, it looks like there are two separate programs, which you can be eligible for both of: The relocation credit, and the restoration or down payment credit, which is more of a match, so the actual amount is more like $20k total.
You are correct, they are the people who will be available to be employed by those considering bringing a large influx of capital and taxable revenue. They're the bait.
The Amtrack website also mentions:
Known as Maryland's “Queen City,” Cumberland was an early gateway to the West. Today, it is a bustling arts center and popular stopover for cyclists using the trail network between Pittsburgh and Washington, D.C.
In the other direction to Pittsburgh leaves at 7:30pm and takes 4½ hours, more than 2 hours longer than driving.
I guess that's just how the panhandle panhandles.
I have family roots in Cumberland and the nearby areas of West Virginia and MD and I still wouldn't consider moving back. But, if you still have a good relationship with family in the city and were already considering the move, this offer might look more compelling.
I believe Vermont also had a similar program for several years - offering a similar amount of money for people to move and work there in VT.
Historical population
peak was
1940 39,483
2020 19,076
It is still dropping
The racial makeup of the city was 89.4% White, 6.4% African American, 0.2% Native American, 0.9% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 0.3% from other races, and 2.8% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino people of any race were 1.2% of the population.
I wish them luck but I don't want to live there.
Not living in the US myself, but done similar in EU.
Living outside large cities is a plus factor these days. You can afford a house, commodities tend to be cheaper or you just grow them yourself. Kids go to a local school where you know everyone else, they make strong friendships and grow healthy in nature.
Borders West Virginia and a key city in the Appalachian area. Some would say this region was day 0 of the opioid epidemic. As of 2020 census, population is largely (~89%) identified as Caucasian. Diversity is lacking. Median income reported at $45K.
Don’t know much besides what’s on paper, but I highly doubt most people on HN would integrate well here.
It's really the eastern edge of Appalachia, but also very much a rust belt relic that depended on industries that are long, long gone (at least from that region). I think Kelly tires had a plant there when my mom was younger.
I've always wanted to go back and see it, just to compare it with my memories. It was in pretty steep decline already in the 70s and 80s, as even a kid could tell. I remember reading that they built a number of prisons nearby, also some across the border in Pennsylvania, but clearly that has not done enough to revitalize things.
For instance, healthcare in Appalachia is generally terrible, as are the crime rates.
Instead of proposing such gifts state a complete development programs: how do you count to augment the population enough to create room for a local bustling economy? A possible timeline and the current state of things? Tell me about local climate, hydro-geological stability, pollution and so on. You want people, convince them to be part of you project do not "buy them with candies". Convincing people to be part of a project means finding (if you succeed, of course) active people who can bring value to your community, otherwise you might collect some fool who will go soon or will remain as a burden to the community.
The candies are to offset the downsides currently preventing people from moving there. Given its Appalachia, those downsides are probably a) bad, poorly maintained infrastructure, b) lack of jobs, c) lack of proximity to anything, and d) the surrounding poverty.
A lot of Appalachia struggles because the towns were built around a profitable industry, which then died. The town still has all that infra, but now has none of the tax base to pay for it.
They’re probably fine with someone who wants to build a McMansion they never leave, as long as they pay their tax bill and buy groceries in town to support local jobs. They honestly mostly need money. Appalachia is well known for their sense of community already, but also for their poverty.
Must be different, out there. I lived in MD for over ten years, and the average was ... slightly higher ...
It is real purdy, out there, though.
Not even once. Have you ever driven in DC metro? No thanks.
Which on first reading I thought you were referring to with "DC metro," and I got very confused.
$38 for a round-trip ticket.
Read the fn offer:
They will give you $10,000 cash, plus another $10,000 toward a renovation to a house you buy, or to a down-payment on a house you are required to buy, with a value of >$150K that you are required to live in for 5 years.
And you have to apply, and be approved, and undergo a casual interview by the city council.
And you have to be ready to move in within 6 months of approval.
And you have to be fully remote, have a local job, or be moving to cumberland in acceptance of a job...
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They GIVE YOU NO FN REASON WHY you would want to move there.
The municipal website is a "Parks & Rec Fisher Price" as it comes, where the first link on "Populat links" is "Pay utilities"
There are no posted bid offereings (meaning no active project cumberland is seeking RFPs on)
And community events is barren...
So, why is this on HN?
It doesnt even give a nice GPT synpsis of what the heck cumberland is even about - Here, I GPTd it for them:
https://i.imgur.com/mueJp1W.png
https://i.imgur.com/scpNTid.png
Is my math wrong or something? Did anyone actually look at the image?
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Back when Detroit was doing super bad, and lots for huge Victorian and other nice architecture homes were going for ~$5,000 - there was a lot of chatter of a bunch of millenial-ish techies buy up a bunch of plots and start a tech-commune sort of adventure out there. (turned out the person organizing that effort was pulling a huge grift)
Maybe try to do a YC startup fund where "Hey heres free housing internet and utilities for your startup if you can prove "XYZ" -- like what about a visa program if some Hackers can come in and do a startup there and raise the economy where the city is invested in the startups? But have the program vetted by some panel of experts the city recruits
Heck - any retire-age level techie person with a passsive income/ability to do things remote etc could take this up
But the 20K to live there for five years, and youre required to put 10K of that toward a house that must be >150K
Here are all the listing on Zillow for houses 150K to 200K in/around cumberland md
Being starkly the only one who points out how weird it is that there was no reason for why would even want to consider this offer, and the unappealing rules for which this is controlled -- its a weird endeavor for this town, and weird post for HN.
Is stating such lacking of manners? Or are emotional triggers > discussion of the content posted?
@Debo - I was talking about the content of the freaking Cumberland website and their offer.
Whatever - defend this absolutely atrocious offer, my comment being downvoted doesnt make the offer any better, nor it presentation.
What a weird thread
Do us a favor and run your comments through it next time. And drop the whole crybaby "bots" crap.
You might as well say “San Francisco is one of the greatest cities on earth, so you should move to Bakersfield.”
You made the same point I was making, not sure if you realize that.
Now, the past is past and what's done is done. Can't we just acknowledge this basic reality and let these places die and move to better ones? Maybe thanks to the internet one day they will be repopulated by small tech companies operating from a single building with 100 computers and a fiber network, but until then why bullshit ourselves?