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Comment by echelon | Hacker News Reader

> Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL...

I'm guessing you don't live in the south. Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people. They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden.

Attitudes on roads vary wildly based on the community in question. There's a large surface area of this country that doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways.

Urban communities will prioritize different needs than suburban and rural communities. The two ends of the spectrum aren't really compatible because these are wholly different lifestyles that are geographically separable.

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I grew up in rural New Zealand, on a dairy farm. I agree that the needs of suburban and rural communities are very different from the needs of urban communities, but what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990...

> what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute

Well depends what you need to do with, of course.

A quick search suggests that this Toyota can tow 3300lb (if the trailer has its own brakes, or only 1650lb if not).

So if you need to tow more than that, it won't work. 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb.

Of course, what is silly is the people with trucks that are never used to tow or carry anything heavier than a bicycle!

The reality is that many people with a Ram are towing toys (boats, ATVs, etc) or, as you say, a travel trailer, not a work trailer. Which brings us to the question of need vs want.

Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.

> Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.

Try shopping for utility trailers. Anything affordable is very heavy steel & lumber. You can get light(er) trailers in aluminum but the price is much higher. I've never actually seen a contractor with one of those, too expensive.

And of course there is all the materials & equipment they're towing on it for the job. How do you suggest any of that become lighter?

> Well depends what you need to do with, of course.

given your example it's "want", not "need"

> 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb

Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones, "very little" and "tiny" are really subjective

> given your example it's "want", not "need"

Yes, how is this relevant? "Wants" are what drive humanity forward, not mere subsistence.

> Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones

Can you post a few links? Tried to find the most popular travel trailer models in Europe but not finding a good list.

Unless you're building the whole thing from carbon fiber, anything spacious is necessarily going to have some weight.

> anything spacious is

Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore...

Here's what seems to be the biggest one of that random brand well ranked on Google, 1330kg: https://www.caravelair-caravans.com/models/exclusive-line-58...

> Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore...

Playing gotcha word games is not the HN ethos.

To clarify, you brought up spacious travel trailers:

> most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones

In contrast, the one I own is very small at 19ft, as mentioned upthread.

Let me help you with that. They don't. If 1 in 50 1500 owners ever hook the thing up to anything heavier than a utility trailer (these can cheerfully be towed by a VW golf) I'll kiss your ass. They're also bullshit for hauling materials since a big chunk of the cargo space got eaten by the now pervasive luxury full sized back seat. The following is an abridged list of tells that a truck owner would be better off with a station wagon:

- the wheel wells are clean

- it's got a tonneau cover on

- no hitch receiver, it's empty, or there's no rust on the ball

- aftermarket anything (lights, step bumpers, lift kit, etc

- no dents, major scratches, or foreign materials on the bed or tailgate

Full disclosure: I have a Dodge 1500 in the driveway right now. In my defense the used truck market is fucking insane, I got this basically new for 60% of what a thoroughly used mid-sized truck would have cost me, and I actually do construction and timber work so the thing gets worked.

The best of all, the bed of their truck is spotless with no scratches meaning at most those trucks just carry grocery bags.

I half fit in this.

Mine is also used to haul a bed full of gravel when my drive needs repair or dirt for lawn correction. Not to mention I have a family.

Rear facing child seats while being 6 feet tall. Most cars I've tested don't support this. (Prius) Or no children can sit behind me because my front seat is sitting so close to the back seat that legs don't fit between. (Camero/Mustang)

Camry and Pasat seem to work, but warranties wouldn't cover things like bad child safety locks.... Not to mention, you can't haul things like gravel. =/

How frequently does your driveway need new gravel that you are justifying a vehicle for that purpose? Do you transport gravel more frequently for your driveway than your children?

You go from full truck down to flat cars, completely ignoring the vehicles in between like soft-roader SUVS or the venerable minivan. Does none of these vehicles meet your people carrying needs?

I went down a similar path where I considered getting a pickup for hauling the occasional project material around. I ended up with a hatchback that covers 90% of use cases. The other 10% I can just rent a truck for a few hours to cover.

People pay double (or more) for gas every year so they can drive around an empty bed and maybe save $50 on a rental once a year.

We have an SUV also and that does pretty well for children and shopping. We need 2 vehicles as jobs are different directions and I bought the most fuel efficient small truck (colorado) on the market at the time of purchase (which is more fuel efficient that the SUV we have, by 2-10 MPG).

The gravel isn't for the driveway, but the road. However, we have hauled gravel for flower beds. It's about time to replace fence and some wood around the garage.

No, I don't haul daily or monthly, but more like quarterly and as-needed. (Tillers, Lawn mowers for example)

Back in Sacramento I saw a 1500 with a decal of mud on their shiny spotless truck. They went out of their way to announce how useless the vehicle actually was.

> They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden.

And many of us aren't happy about the number of pedestrian deaths caused by these behemoths. Which one should we prioritize?

As a southerner and an owner of a 1500 I say absolutely prioritize to cut down on pedestrian deaths. I can get a different truck and it'd piss off all the right people.

I live in the Deep South, where I've gotten around on foot, on a bicycle, and by car. It's clear that some drivers see me as a nuisance when I'm walking, but I don't really see that as my problem.

In my observation, vehicular traffic anywhere doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways. That doesn't mean that pedestrians, cyclists, or regulators should necessarily defer to their wishes.

> Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people.

That is the problem which needs to be solved.

The industry is taking care of that - the trucks cost has increased like 200% in 20 years.

Several SUV's are the same size as trucks. Even some Vans.

Small cars don't usually fit families well. =(

LOL - I'm imagining a Prius for a family of 6 =P

Who says the car has to be small? There were no SUVs when I was a kid; people drove small families around in sedans, and larger ones in station wagons - later, minivans. It worked fine, and this could all be done again.

I'm not a fan of the truck driving crowd, but why do you get to dictate that someone should drive a minivan instead of a truck?

Who's pretending I should - I'm just some schmuck on the internet! But it's a matter of plain historical fact that trucks and SUVs took over the American market as a consequence of policies established by the US federal government which made trucks more profitable for manufacturers and ordinary cars less so. Why should we not propose that the mistakes made in one session of Congress ought to be corrected by another?

> why do you get to dictate that someone should drive a minivan instead of a truck?

Because they are killing pedestrians and cyclists at an increasing rate in North America, while the same collisions are coming down in other developed countries. If the industry doesn't regulate itself, the government needs to step in for the common good.

Okay, then they should require CDL when entering a town or any other urban location.

We don’t let people carry around lethal weapons just because some people think it’s a “way of life”, so why should it be diff…… oh wait

Not relevant. Neither the right to drive, nor the right to drive a pickup truck, is guaranteed in the constitution.

Does that make it any less entrenched?

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