Comment by sho_hn | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sho_hn | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

You're making a bunch of key mistakes there:

a) Only the ARM version is running Windows RT. The Intel version I wrote about is using "Windows 8 Pro", which contains the regular Windows desktop.

b) A BT keyboard for the iPad is something you need to select separately, and schlepp around inconveniently. A cover goes together with the device. Stuff like this matters.

As for whether it's doing anything new, dunno. The thing is that with products like this, it's a matter of degrees and refinement - at some point you cross a threshold and a concept works. That's why the iPad works, but Tablet PCs didn't.

The product most similar to the Intel-powered Surfcace + Touch Cover is the Android Transformer Prime with the optional keyboard dock. But the keyboard dock isn't as svelte as the Touch Cover, and Android doesn't have the application base of desktop Windows when used as a laptop replacement. And yet the Prime garnered a lot of interest. Microsoft seems to be in a unique position to offer this refined version of the idea.

Will anyone want it? Time will tell.

> schlepp around inconveniently

This is the opposite of inconvenient:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-57415771-243/logitechs-...

This, plus a good SSH client and the Google apps app, makes a laptop redundant, and is a very nice cover and perfect airplane tray stand to boot (thanks to offsetting the screen away from the seatback in front of you).

You're getting pretty close to a laptop once you add the keyboard to the mix, and the killer product you then start competing with is the 11" MBA.

I'm voting MBA without hesitation, but everyone has different needs.

I get that, but 95% of my iPad use is as a reference/reading device and I really don't need the keyboard or the (comparatively) short battery life of a MBA for that.

On the off chance I'm going to a meeting or an overnight, I swap Apple's smart cover for the Logitech which is also a smart cover.

I am writing this from a Transformer Prime, which has totally replaced my laptop. But I have to augment the Android OS with Debian to make the machine useful to me (which I run in a chroot jail).

I agree that Windows in such a form factor could be quite compelling to lots of users.

I think the Asus Transformer has a better form factor though since it does not need a desk to support the screen/keyboard--you can use it on your lap like a laptop.

It seems like the main advantage of the Surface will be Windows 8's ability to be used both as a mobile OS and as a desktop OS. In your case, Android doesn't let you run unported Linux programs and Debian, if you booted into it, wouldn't support touching the screen. If the Linux kernel supported the Transformer Prime's touchscreen, and if a touchable lightweight window manager were designed for mobile use, and if the Android emulator for Linux were much faster than it currently is, let's say by using full-speed virtualization or something, a tablet/laptop combo like the Transformer Prime would be the perfect computing device for me.

Mac OS X 10.7 and the future 10.8 are converging on iOS's UI, and I wouldn't be surprised if 10.9 or Mac OS 11 or Mac iOS or w/e the next Apple OS will be called will run on desktops and mobile devices. If so, it will be interesting to see if they merge the iPad and the MacBook Air into a Transformer Prime equivalent that has a full OS. If the Microsoft Surface becomes popular, maybe they'd even rush to do this under Mountain Lion and provide an iOS emulator/virtualizer or something. I get the feeling this will happen sooner than Linux meeting my above-stated requirements, but I'm optimistic that there will soon be at least one alternative to the Surface that runs something more powerful than Android

Guys, it needs a lot of work to compile, but I ported X as an android app a couple of years back intended for this use case: github.com/tmzt/androix

Wow, this is awesome. How well does it work?

Do GTK and Qt work on it? Do desktop environments and window managers compile and run? Does most graphical software that compiles and runs on Linux, the BSDs, and Mac OS X compile and run on it? If so, this would be perfect.

Honestly I didn't know about a), so thanks for pointing out my mistake.

I just think keyboard cover is overrated in your argument. After all, it is peripheral, iPad can have one too, but that alone doesn't make a MBA killer. Low price + Unrestricted platform (open for all kinds of peripheral development) is the killer weapon. Oh, those USB ports are very nice.

The iPad doesn't come with a BT keyboard, but there are quite a few keyboard/cover combos available. It's not something that you have to "schlepp around inconveniently":

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20091329-243/keyboardin...

But these all look rather clunky and unattractive, and the point about needing to select among them still stands. They'll always be niche accessoires for that reason.

The Touch Cover is a sanctioned, obvious choice. It's simple to grok. The iPad doesn't have that yet.

It doesn't even matter if the clunky-looking ones perform better, or serve an edge case better.

This is Microsoft learning from Apple. What you're doing is a role-reversal of the situation where anti-Apple folks point to some obscure niche solution as equivalent to Apple integration.

Looking the other way round, any BT accessory created in your language/preference works with the iPad. I'm not holding my breath to see Microsoft covering every keyboard layout flavor existing around the world at launch of the surface.

That's just the edge case argument again, though. Obviously the iPad isn't a success mostly because it works great with your Siberian Dvorak BT keyboard.

Look, I'm not cheerleading Microsoft here: I'm a Linux desktop developer. If anything, I'm saying these things with a tinge of resignation (not about Microsoft specifically, but the way the market works - though I prefer to accept it as reality, and see it as a challenge).

Now, one thing that might be true: A sanctioned solution leaves less room for accessory makers, so that Siberian Dvorak keyboard may be more likely to be available for the iPad than the Surface, leaving the iPad as the obvious choice for Siberian Dvorak users.

jeffgreco's reply addresses it, but just to clarify, I wasn't thinking about mirrored dvorak keyboards or stuff I don't even know exists. More things like Canadian qwerty or japanese JIS keyboards, that are main stream in each country but will need special effort for Microsoft to manufacture. The ipad avoids the problem entirerly.

Surfaces will have Bluetooth support [1], so I would imagine a fair number of accessories would work.

[1] http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/13263622-460/micr...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com