Live from Microsoft's mystery press conference in Los Angeles | Hacker News Reader

Live from Microsoft's mystery press conference in Los Angeles

engadget.com

73 pointsmolmalo81 comments

built in kickstand? http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/micros... kinda cheezy

Cover is a keyboard? http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/micros...

That's actually cool

Cover as keyboard less cool without kickstand!

Exactly. Depending on how it feels to type on that keyboard and the weight of the device, this could be a fully functional laptop and tablet.

Yeah, cover as a keyboard is along the lines of Apple-like innovation. I think that's not a bad design decision, so long as it's a choice (i.e. SW keyboard is also an option).

It's windows 8, so the software keyboard is there.

I think that the cover will be sold separately. They announced it as "Surface Cover", and coming in different colors, it makes sense to be sold separately. So, there's no other option but to also have a software keyboard. If not, the possibility of detaching the cover would be worthless.

Serious question, in what way is your second picture not a picture of a more-or-less conventional laptop?

I'm asking because I find the "live blog" page incomprehensible.

theverge.com had a much better live blog.

Because it's basically a tablet, but the screen cover (3mm thick), that is attached with magnets and can be detached, is a full multi-touch keyboard.

It's a thinner ASUS EeePad Transformer - http://uk.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/

Well, something like that, but you also have an x86 version. (But the x86 is going to be more expensive than the ARM version)

I have a "cover as a keyboard" too.

It's called the bottom half of my macbook air.

Please explain the downvote. I'm honestly not sure what the distinction between the two is.

It's just your Air isn't a touch-tablet.

And since most of the processing metal is in the keyboard half, I'd say it's cover-as-a-screen instead.

Your Air is not a touch-enabled tablet?

Holy Shit! STEVE BALLMER SAID THIS:

"We believe that any intersection between human and machine can be made better when every aspect of the experience, hardware and software, are considered together."

I need to lay down... I wouldn't be half as surprised if Steve Jobs would announce in 2010 that they'll abandon making hardware and license iOS and OS X.

Well, MSFT is giving "integrated experience" for XBox for years. So its not new to be honest.

That was a new thing altogether, and they did that from the very beginning. Admitting that maybe the integrated approach could work better on the PC (they consider tablets a new form factor for PCs) is totally not in the same ballpark.

Why would this be even remotely surprising? Microsoft is currently trying to cargo-cult what Apple is doing. That they ape the same philosophy isn't unexpected.

Are you really implying that Apple's end-to-end ownership of their product has little to do with their success?

Are you really implying that Apple's end-to-end ownership of their product has little to do with their success?

What a funny, looking-for-an-argument response. You know what, though- I'll humour you.

Do you understand what a cargo-cult is? Are you really implying (groan) that end-to-end ownership is the precusor to success? With this transition, Microsoft is guaranteed super success, right?

But let's go back to Apple for a moment: If you want to attribute their recent success to it, you must also attribute their prior failure to it as well, as they went through well over a decade with dismal products and brutal sales. During the same time that Microsoft, who didn't have end-to-end ownership, was the darling of the tech industry with unheralded success.

I don't know why this sort of sophistry that is so common on here rubs me so raw. I think it's that so many are so desperate to try to simplify the world into clear differentiators, with a seeming blindness to the exceptions and the history behind their ridiculous claims.

I'm impressed. Construction and overall engineering looks solid, the integrated super-thin keyboard is cool, the stylus input is impressive.

Some nagging questions: battery life? price? availability? (most likely concurrent with win 8 release) screen resolution? (it looked like an IPS display from the screen shots) ram & cpu specs?

Not everything is clear yet. But take a look at this. Some of the specs:

http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingasset...

I've seen it, that's not a spec sheet. No CPU/GPU info. No RAM info. Not even display resolution info. It doesn't even tell you what wifi standards it supports except through reading between the lines.

I suspect that's because they don't have a final model yet. Notice that this page states: Actual size and weight of the device may vary due to configuration and manufacturing process. They announce what they know will be there in the final product. When they have the full final spec, they will show it to us.

Hmm, interesting point. There's enough time before launch for that to be an option, at least for the display.

Isn't this the wrong time for a press conference? It's good for the west coast, USA, but who else is really paying attention? Most of the east coast & are at home eating dinner or getting ready for bed & it's very early morning in Asia, right? Am I missing something here?

Not that it matters, the only "live" coverage of this thing seems to be live blogs. MS is really terrible at PR I think.

Microsoft is very much a west-coast-of-the-US company. I'm sure they had to wait for markets to close, as well.

If they are waiting for the markets to close, does this mean they aren't even confident in their new device? Why have the live press conference anyway?

Microsoft always waits for the markets to close for events or announcements. This is nothing new.

and it's late at night in Europe

It's been a long time since I've been impressed by a MS product. Kudos to them.

Have you had hands-on with Windows Phone 7 on a Nokia Lumia? That's pretty impressive.

Yeah seriously. Microsoft might actually become publicly cool someday soon. This was the most impressive thing I have ever seen Microsoft do -- both in terms of quality of presentation and product. I guess we'll see if it is as impressive hands-on.

Microsoft Surface - Tablet from MSFT

More information: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

Looks cool to be honest. With Metro UI it can be game changer.

The tablet's name is "Surface"? Isn't that a bit odd, given that the previous Microsoft Surface didn't ever really take off?

Can I get android on it?

Not without signing your boot image, AFAIK. Microsoft had a program for allowing companies to sign UEFI boot images, but I'm not sure that will extend to ARM machines.

And was based on completely different technology and served a different purpose.

Yeah, I feel that Microsoft is bastardizing or abandoning everything that Microsoft Surface (the table computer) was supposed to be by repurposing its name into Microsoft Surface (the tablet computer) just to compete with iPad.

It's an already vetted name that is pretty good for a tablet. Might as well reuse it since no one outside the tech community even knows what a Surface is.

Edit: And the old Surface is now "Samsung SUR40 with Microsoft Pixelsense"

The previous MS Surface never became mainstream, or reached mass market. Therefore it doesn't matter.

IMO calling it "surface" instead of "tablet" is brilliant. It distinguishes it from tablets and conveys "touch".

Wow,

What better vehicle for an OS generally panned as a poor marriage of touch and keyboard - than a tablet marrying ... touch and keyboard. Touchscreen laptops have been a hit so far... I suggest they add a pen.

Even the engadget page is strikingly confusing. "Hey we can use javascript to switch images as the scrolls down the page" - sure, that doesn't mean you should have such bizarro design. If the reviews are correct here, malform follows malfunction..

You want them to add a pen? They added a pen:

http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/632...

The keyboard-cover is a cool idea, but I can't imagine using it well unless I'm using a desk (at what point I'd be using a laptop.)

90% of the time I use my iPad, its on the couch, in bed, or when I'm standing up.

Still, props to Microsoft for this initiative.

As it is also available as a full Windows PC, they are aiming to eliminate the need for a separate laptop.

You can do 90% of what you'd want to do on a laptop without the laptop. Why carry both?

A lot of people I know in a certain live coverage niche have already switched to iPads over laptops for composing and publishing content on the fly, with and without external keyboards. A tablet with keyboard makes a lot of sense over a laptop where mobility is important.

but can i sit it in my lap and type, like on my laptop?

Not comfortably. But I can more easily play angry birds on it while slouched in front of my TV. Each device has its pros and cons.

Launching with Windows 8 (and 3 months later for the pro version). Pricing starts as competitive with other tablets for their 32gb and 64gb variants, going up to ultrabook range for their 128gb version.

So: No immediate launch. No major price advantage (and no pricing details either)

No mention of battery life, which I thought was a glaring omission. Either they think that "tablet" implies great battery life so it doesn't need to be mentioned, which seems unlikely, or the battery life sucks and they don't see any point in calling attention to it.

A link to Verge's live-blog feed...much better than Engadget's http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-live-blog-tablet-announce...

I watched WWDC via Engadget using the same interface. Everything about this presentation, from the timing to the lame device they are actually announcing, seems poorly thought-out and downright boring compared to Apple's keynote.

Just one of the reasons why "Surface" was a poor name choice: Surface is trending on Twitter right now, but a search for 'surface' includes lots of tweets unrelated to Microsoft or this product. Example:

Terms of Virgo ‏@VirgoTerms #Virgo can appear emotionally cold on the surface when they repress their natural kindness.

A similar search for 'iPad' shows zero results that aren't referring to Apple's iPad.

Not exactly a fair comparison, during the iPad's announcement, most of the responses on twitter were lame feminine hygiene jokes.

Yes, but they were jokes about the iPad. Do a twitter search for 'surface' and you will see a significant number of tweets which are unrelated to Microsoft's tablet in anyway.

It's funny that they did a whole presentation like this without mentioning the price, aside from saying it'll be priced "like comparable tablets based on ARM," which doesn't mean much on the face of it. Just recently there was a lot of talk about how Windows 8 is too expensive for tablets running it to be priced in a range to compete with the iPad. One would think that, since Microsoft is making it in-house, it might be cheap enough to compete with the iPad; but of course we won't know until we know.

Will we get a price today, or are they holding that back?

Maybe, just because it was "too expensive for tablets running it to be priced in a range to compete with the iPad", they put their own hardware (without charging themselves the OS license) at the same price of an iPad or Android tablet. That way, they would make the entire ecosystem bigger.

Did anyone find the Verge's live blog much more easier to use?

Also, is anyone aware of a way to "pause" a live blog? That would be worthwhile if say you get a call...

I didn't know of it while the presentation was happening. But now I've checked it, and you seem to be right, it looks much better.

Also, had checked a live coverage from Ars ( http://s3.amazonaws.com/liveblogs/microsoft-tablet/index.htm... ) but they had just a few pictures. (Now, it seems that he had a problem: "I wish I could take pictures, but EOS Utility is being awkward for me unfortunately." )

Anyway, while following this coverage, I was also watching the live streaming from Cnet. You can watch also their live-blog: http://live.cnet.com/Event/Microsofts_mystery_event_in_Los_A...

Both, the verge's and cnet's are better for the ones coming now :)

My Apple fanboi buddies are telling me that the Surface is ugly. I don't really get that... seems like every tablet is just a border + glass at this point, and mostly indistinguishable from the others. If the delta is just the kickstand + keyboard, I'm a fan. Given that I own an iPhone, Kindle Fire, and X-Box I claim brand neutrality in the religious war. :)

does anyone else think this engadget live stream interface is absolutely terrible?

It is atrocious. When you move the images "inline", they end up being 100 px by 100 px thumbnails.

The Verge liveblog is much better: http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-live-blog-tablet-announce...

Multitouch keyboard on a cover. Brilliant!

Kudos, Microsoft. Glad to see somebody give Apple a little competition. Been looking for a way to get my Chrome extension and scripts onto a tablet form-factor.

When they called it Surface I thought it would have that haptic feedback screen that lets you feel different types of resistance based on what's shown on the screen. The keyboard/cover thing is pretty cool, though (although I don't know how comfortable/responsive it'll feel when typing really fast).

This seems more like a showcase of how small, powerful and efficient new chips have gotten then anything Microsoft has accomplished.

No. If you want to see it that way, it's more of a showcase for their own hardware engineering. They stated and repeated: "Every micron matters within Microsoft Surface."

And take a look at this pictures: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/micros... and http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/micros... and http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/micros...

My point was that not more than 2 years ago you would not have been able to make a tablet that thin, quiet, cool, fully featured and with an x86 processor inside to boot.

Any word on pricing, availability and whether the x86 will have a locked down bootloader (as the ARM will probably have)?

BTW, even for the locked down bootloaders, I read somewhere Red Hat was going to use Microsoft-provided keys to sign their boot images. I wonder if that means they'll be able to have Fedora on an ARM device.

I find the stretched rectangle proportions awkward to hold in portrait mode which is how I usually want to use my Asus Transformer. But then I'm more of a reader than a movie/game person.

Steve Ballmer: "We designed Windows 8 for the world we know, in which most computers are mobile."

That explains EVERYTHING!

My weird guess: eventually Microsoft will end up buying Vizio.

The keyboard is so cool. Its hard to believe its real.

Any links to the actual video of the conference?

No such video exists.

Looks like it does now: http://cdn-smooth.ms-studiosmedia.com/news/mp4_mq/06182012_S...

Good one. Thanks!

The multitouch cover/keyboard is very interesting. I think this could be a game changer if it works well.

When I saw that, I thought "they've managed to turn a tablet into a laptop." and I actually thought the exact opposite of you.

I wonder what Microsoft's hardware partners think of all this. It's not just competition, they actively disparaged the others by saying that it was as powerful as all the ultrabooks out there.

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