Not eating lunch with your team every day? You're missing out. | Hacker News Reader

Not eating lunch with your team every day? You're missing out.

forbes.com

41 pointssonier50 comments

I enjoy eating alone - because I can listen to podcasts, catch up on life TODOs, or squeeze in some exercise.

I also don't like to be subjected to forced meal decisions. Some days I want a light salad type meal. Some winter days I may be a little down and treat myself to a burger and fries.

I'm glad I work at a place that doesn't judge me for disappearing at lunch time.

It sounds like Google, at least at their main campus, has a sufficiently wide variety of choices.

Not vacationing with your team every holiday? You're missing out.

Not living with your coworkers? You're missing out.

And so on. The atmosphere described in this article seems stifling, almost like a religious service. That doesn't sound like a good way to foster spontaneous interactions. As others have commented, provide an optional lunch that is not mandated, isn't expected, and where people who don't participate are not ostracized. Then get out of the way.

The only exception I can see is for smaller teams where, for planning purposes, indicating that you'll participate would help with ordering the right amount/type of food.

That seems like a pretty gross overreaction.

The article is about a pretty small, close-knit startup serving a free gourmet lunch by professional chef. I doubt anyone there feels like it's stifling and I doubt anyone is thought less of for occasionally doing their own thing.

Certainly this is a Forbes blog and someone may take the idea and try to force it into an environment inappropriately, but arguing that it can never work seems over the top.

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I can only speak to the fact that based on how it was described (the reporter may have misrepresented what it was like for dramatic effect) I would find it stifling. Even if the description is 100% spot on and it's not for me, it could be that everyone there enjoys it and it becomes a good filter for finding employees who are into that kind of culture. I never stated that it can never work. Only that it would only work for me if it's a no-pressure, opt-in, spontaneous thing.

I think that making it possible, and encouraging it, is great.

Just don't make people feel bad if they decide to spend their lunch time dealing with groceries, paying bills, or going for a walk in the sun.

Exactly. An expectation to perform during personal time is not what the introverts on your team need.

Ugh, seriously. Some of us just want to do our work and go home, not stick around for a company mandated 'happy hour'.

Where I work the company will occasionally treat everybody to a meal (dinner or lunch) and it is quite nice. It typically counts towards your time (if it is a lunch) and it is optional.

I think the difference lies in who has to pay. If the employee is bringing their lunch or having to pay out of pocket then it may not as go well as if it is paid for by the company. In my eyes, the former is equatable to what you called "mandated 'happy hour'" while the latter is more a way to show appreciation for the work that the employees do.

Great, go work at IBM.

I hate this kind of "work hard, play hard" attitude.

I'm here to get work done, NOT make buddies.

Let me work hard and get my stuff done, then while you're out pounding the Jagerbombs maybe I can get some more stuff done. You know, because "getting stuff done" is my job. My job is not, "get sh*faced with my coworkers". The latter activity does not add (objectively measured) shareholder value.

Far better and far more important STILL than 90% of startups that don't go anywhere anyway. And from a huge part of the 10% that do have any success, come to think of it.

Far more important contributors to CS and technology have worked in IBM and similar companies than in startups. Including the guys that built UNIX (AT & T) and the pals at Xerox Parc. Not to mention people wanting the even more lax and easy going environment of academia, from Knuth to Djikstra.

Decades of important research in any CS related area, and tens of thousands of original results (patented even) are far superior to messing with RoR and NoSQL trying to build a Heroku for rollerskaters or Facebook for Slugs, pulling all-nighters and screwing your work-life balance over.

Not to mention that a reasonable work-life balance is far more progress for the whole of society than any start up product. In their deathbed no one regrets not going more to the company lunch.

Depends on the introvert I guess. I get plenty of solitude while working on code and I enjoy the opportunity to chat with people over lunch.

Introverted or not, being able to sit down and converse with your teammates is important. I wouldn't want to work with someone who either couldn't or didn't feel it important to do so.

That's what meetings are for, right? Or even just the ability to walk to someone's office/cube/desk, and talk to them about important things. You can establish a culture of communication within a team that doesn't intrude on personal time.

There is a lot of use in say, complaining that a way you are going about a problem will work, but seems too damn hard. Say for example, I see a 4 hour solution to a problem that should really be solved in 30 minutes. Often coworkers who know some systems better, or have a different way of viewing the problem will see a much easier way to solve it by leveraging tools I don't know about or approaches I didn't think of.

Certainly, these informal discussions over lunch aren't strictly necessary, and certainly, having some alternate way of making these discussions happen is very useful, but they are just often helpful.

It's also not the case that having lunch with coworkers is by any means mandatory, or that taking the lunch for yourself is frowned upon.

Why can't those conversations occur normally? Is it that they aren't considered real work?

then do not take my time to do so.

Seems to me there is a great deal of time other than lunch to allow us to bond. Why do some people feel intent on taking my time away to do something they won't give of their time to let me do; as in your meetings are far more important than bonding but my lunch time isn't.

Been there, done that. Its like another management fad that poorly managed companies try to graft unto their dysfunctional culture. They of course fail at it because they don't understand it really is they who are the problem, not the employees.

They of course fail at it because they don't understand it really is they who are the problem, not the employees.

It could be a little bit of both. That said, I am curious if you could say what situation / circumstances would make you want to spend more time with your co-workers and/or enjoy the idea of doing lunch together, etc. IOW, in your experience, what is the root of (what I perceive as) the adversarial "us vs them" mentality between employee & employer?

I ask because if/when they day comes that our startup gets off the ground and we have money and employees, I really want to have the kind of culture where everyone feels like part of one team, where employees, founders, managers, whoever, can go out together, have lunch, go out for drinks after work, etc. and actually enjoy it, not feel like it's something that's being forced on them (it never would be forced, of course). I have my own take, based on my years of experience in all sorts of companies, but I like hearing other perspectives on this - because I believe there is value in that "bonding" or "gelling" between colleagues in a firm.

I've never worked in a close-knit place like where I've seen these type of lunches described (the article, Fog Creek, etc), but it seems like it works very well for them. "Everyone eats lunch together" obviously doesn't scale very well - at some point it becomes just "free food" like Google.

I go home for lunch every day. I like having an hour to do whatever or take care of errands in the middle of the day, and I like breaking up the work day into chunks.

Its a good thing as long as its not mandated. I rather prefer going home and having lunch with my wife.

The thing you have to be careful about is artificially creating this kind of bonding. If a company gives you opportunity to bond with your colleagues, that's a great thing. However, some people feel as though a team just isn't a team unless they're eating lunch every day together and everybody loves everyone's company enough to do so.

In my experience, it's usually a cargo-culted management technique. One thing to keep in mind is that with all the startups of the last whatever-years, there is a shortage of experienced management, so someone who has gone from Developer at one company to Director of Engineering at another has only these stories to cull company strategy.

Furthermore, Forbes.com is the perfect venue for extroverts to circle the wagons.

Lunch is my quiet time, I don't want to talk work all day long. I may still think about it, or even be working while I eat but I don't need a forced one hour meeting every day to be good at my job.

At my current company we all eat lunch together (some bring their lunch, others eat out). It's not really a policy per-se but everyone seems to do it.

The only policy we have is of no eating lunch at desks so this gets us all in the same room.

We also have a "Results Only Work Environment" (http://www.gorowe.com) so you're free to do whatever you want, whenever you want, so if you want to get dry cleaning, walk the dog, catch a movie, etc. - you needn't do it over lunch. You can do it whenever.

With folks often out various parts of the day due to ROWE group lunch is sort of an encouragement for everyone to come together and socialize at least once a day.

This rowe sounds interesting - how long have you been using it ? What changes did you noticed when you started it?

We've been using it since we started earlier this year.

Changes that I like (from traditional companies):

* We're all treated like respectful adults. We're all trusted to manage our personal schedules to meet the expectations we set on an ongoing basis.

* No start and end time. Thus, I'm never "late" for anything. If I feel sleepy and need some extra rest, no big deal. If the subway is acting up, I don't have to panic and notify everyone I'll be "a few minutes late" (obviously if I have some obligations I've set with someone else, like a conf call at 10a or something, I'll have to make alternate arrangements).

* Every* meeting is optional (1:1s are not optional). No need to be dragged into things I don't want to do.

I can go to a doctors appointment, dentist, etc. without needing to take "sick time" or ask anyone. I try and schedule it outside of my "normal" working hours, as I like a core block of time to code, but if not, no big deal.

* I can run errands (pick up dry cleaning, meet HVAC repairman, etc.) any time of day without asking permission. OR anyone caring.

* No excuses for why stuff didn't get done. If we agree to get X done in an iteration, it's my job to make sure it gets done. If I decide to go to the beach all week and don't take "vacation" then I'm responsible for the work getting done.

* "Marginal" or folks not cutting it won't work out. If you can't meet expectations, you aren't doing your job, and appropriate penalties will apply. There's no place to hide.

Changes I'm still getting used to:

* Folks can work anywhere, whenever. So often I'm the only one in the office (I like to work at my desk - at home I have too many distractions).

* Pairing takes more effort. I have to make sure to schedule pairing sessions otherwise I'm not guaranteed someone will be sitting next to me when I get in the office.

* All communication needs to be async & recorded. Campfire, Basecamp, IM, email, etc. are used instead of face-to-face chat, as folks may not be here to hear it.

All summed up, I love it. I'd hate to work any other way.

One of the impromptu perks here is lunch: a most eclectic group of programmers, chemists, physicists, managers, support, etc. congregate around one large table and enjoy a discussion thread that flows thru technology, philosophy, brewing, literature, linguistics, astronomy, cooking, etc. - often all in one sitting. Indeed, if I'm not there I feel I'm missing out. No pressure to join in, but indeed a great perk if you do.

I'm an IT consultant making Swedish style consultant money and I eat out of a plastic box at the office alone while most of my co-workers are usually eating out.

I just think it's a waste of money to be honest. Maybe I'm being too pragmatic because this is far from the first time I hear that it strengthens morale and team spirit to eat together but I'm not paying 90SEK for a buffet when I get full from drinking a glass of yoghurt. It's just such a waste.

making Swedish style consultant money

Is this humble or bragging? I honestly don't know how well (or poorly) Swedish consultants are paid?

Relative to some other nations it could be bragging, just look at the standard of living index. Or the big mac index for that matter. We're almost always close behind Norway.

But that doesn't translate to much when you live here. I just thought it was a funny way of emphasizing that I can afford to eat out every day.

One thing to remember - it is a 1 hour break, not a 25-30 min lunch break. Just eating is not sufficient for the brain. You also need to take a walk, breath a fresh air, etc... You should just forget the office for a 1 hour.

Great, as long as it's a paid lunch and counts towards the 8 hours per day limit prior to accruing overtime.

And you get your mandated-by-law lunch break (30 minutes in California).

No, the employer need not pay for this time.

However, they may not impede or discourage it either.

http://www.gotmealbreaks.com/

A lot of the comments are based on the expectation that nothing personally worthwhile could happen during lunch with co-workers. I'm sure that's an accurate description of some workplaces. I read the interesting submitted article as suggesting that for a small start-up, focused on successful teamwork to launch new products, making part of the team interaction happen over a tasty, unhurried meal is a change of context that makes the teamwork more effective and enjoyable. I'm sure that's an accurate description of some workplaces too.

What each of us has to find out, wherever we work, is what works for us (you and me individually) and what works for the team. If the company makes more money for all employees (reflected in higher pay and better benefits that you desire) and reduces the number of tedious meetings that are not over lunch, it could be a win-win to have lunch together with everyone else on staff. Last summer I had a contract to do a remote job where everyone ate together, and I liked that very well, as some of my colleagues there were people I've known online for years but rarely see in person. I'm already looking forward to a longer contract stint with more program responsibilities at the same place this summer. Conversations over meals will be on the plus side of the ledger for me as I evaluate whether or not I go back in future years.

If the company makes more money for all employees (reflected in higher pay and better benefits that you desire) and reduces the number of tedious meetings that are not over lunch, it could be a win-win to have lunch together with everyone else on staff.

My experience is that this is never the case. More often it is in companies that already have too many meetings and appear to be using lunch as yet another one.

Its not that I don't want to hang out with my colleagues during my lunch hours, I just have too much other stuff to do like running errands, paying bills, etc. However, I made an effort to have a coffee break or such with my colleagues when they have them. I think that is a good compromise for me.

Furthermore, I rather spend the time I have at home with my family rather than doing the mundane stuff that I can during my lunch break.

Companies benefit when there is a breakdown in work/life separation.

I get inundated with conversations, discussions and emails so much during work-time that lunch time is often a good time of solitude for me to organize my plan of action for the rest of the day. I usually take a short walk around London's alley ways while eating my sandwich - nice experience, to be honest.

I would never work for a company which required me to spend my lunch or break time talking about work.

Our team does this once a month, and nobody is obligated. I personally can't stand it even once a month as I am the only vegetarian on the team, so when they are choosing a place to eat, I always feel like I am making them miss out on their favorite Bar-B-Q resturant.

Our team goes out probably once a week (informally) on Fridays and I feel like I hold them back if I go. I'm not a vegetarian but I am allergic to dairy and eggs which makes it hard to spontaneously pick a place to eat.

My team cooks our own lunch in our office kitchen almost every day. We take turns in the kitchen duty. Today was my turn, whipped up some salad with halloumi and a little bratwurst in the grill.

I very much enjoy our lunch hours, gives a chance to not talk about work with your teammates. Looking forward for tomorrow, there's this season's new potatoes (a local seasonal delicacy!) with some salmon on the menu and I don't have to cook.

Does your team list cooking skills as a requirement to be hired? It would seem difficult to ensure that there's a good lunch to be had everyday otherwise.

> Does your team list cooking skills as a requirement to be hired?

No, we don't require cooking skills, but we do require things that are a lot harder in comparison so should be able to learn to cook in no time. And it's not a requirement to take part in the cooking either. You're free to go an grab lunch from a restaurant if you wish.

We did this too. Even if you know nothing about cooking it's easy to find simple and tasty ideas for lunches (as I found out), it's much cheaper than eating out, and it's good for the team. But growing from 6 to 12 people made it too much of a chore to shop and cook for so many.

Interesting. My work place had a baking roster (totally voluntarily). Everyone who joins is to bake something for the team when it is their turn. Not too sure how successful it turned out to be, but it is not running more.

I moved away from the city where my company is located, but I still work for them as a telecommuter. I miss having lunch with my coworkers. Even though we rarely talked about work during lunch, it was a great chance to bond and have fun.

Not having a life outside work ? You're missing out.

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