Low level of Magnesium linked to disease-causing DNA damage | Hacker News Reader

Low level of Magnesium linked to disease-causing DNA damage

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129 pointsclumsysmurf64 comments

Magnesium L-Threonate - has the most potent therapeutical effect because it can effortlessly cross blood-brain barrier. The drawback is that some people are sensitive to this form of magnesium, those people can have nausea, vomit, migraines, etc. IMHO, I would advise against everyday use because this form is more a medication than a supplement. It is used for serious conditions like dementia, neurological impairment, nutrimental deficiencies.

Magnesium Taurate - a combination of magnesium and taurine. A good form for people with metabolic conditions: T1DM, T2DM, hyperlipidemia, vitamin and mineral deficiencies.

Magnesium Glycinate (aka Magnesium Bisglycinate) - a bit less potent form of magnesium, but has good bioavailability, fewer side-effects. This form is also a source of glycine which is an important amino acid beneficial for metabolism, has a mild calming and stabilizing effect on nervous system. Helps to cope with anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia.

Magnesium Citrate - a cheaper but ok magnesium form for everyday use.

Magnesium Oxide - the cheapest and the least efficient form of magnesium. Unfortunately, this is the most widespread form in many countries due to its low price. Try to avoid this form if you have a choice.

Bonus point: if you have a specific condition, you can combine several forms of magnesium to reach multiple therapeutic goals. For example, some popular combinations are presented below:

  a. Magnesium Taurate + Magnesium Glycinate
  b. Magnesium L-Threonate + Magnesium Taurate
  c. Magnesium L-Threonate + Magnesium Taurate + Magnesium Glycinate

4 Years ago I got 4 pounds of food grade Magnesium Chloride for $30. I'm pretty sure that I'll die of old age before I run out.

No idea if it gives buffs.

Doesn’t it lose potency over time!

I think you may be confusing it for something else, magnesium chloride is literally a salt so there's nothing to degrade, and it's not going to react with air (if it did, it'd release chlorine gas).

Like sodium chloride, the most it will do is grab moisture out of the air and try to recrystallize into bigger clumps.

Edit It occurs to me you may have mean "It doesn’t lose potency over time!", in which case, true!

I take Magnesium Glycinate as a laxative but have reached 500mg per day and it's not enough. Too much already, or is it safe to take more?

Magnesium glycinate not very effective for being a laxative. Magnesium citrate is probably what you want.

Yeah, there's that drinkable laxative called citroma, which is pretty much magnesium citrate and seltzer water as far as I can tell.

For laxative purposes you should prefer the forms which are most poorly absorbed, i.e. magnesium oxide or magnesium citrate

They're also the cheapest.

I have been taking 300mg of Magnesium Bisglycinate 30 mins before sleep for the past 5 months or so. I have anxiety which can lead to insomnia. It has been a great help.

My retinal specialist prescribed me threonate ater surgery.

Thanks! How about overdose with Glycinate? Eg taking daily for sleep with a normal magnesium level in blood test.

I’ve gotten ocular migraines since I was about 13, and one day a decade or so ago I noticed one was about to come on and randomly googled something that brought me to magnesium deficiency and migraines. I didn’t give it much thought and just ran out to the corner health food spot and they happened to have a liquid magnesium supplement made by the German company Floradix. I took it and while I still got the ocular migraine, it passed pretty quickly.

I’ve been taking a magnesium supplement pretty much daily since then. The only time I really get an ocular migraine these days is if I’ve run out of supplements and go a week or so without them.

I remember telling a doctor friend of mine about it early on and they were very dismissive about it. Glad people are researching it, I do feel it’s helped in my case.

What is an ocular migraine like? I may have had this before, I had like a kaleidoscope in my vision in one eye, and once when I was child I felt like I had gone blind or something it felt like I couldn't focus on anything... Both went away within a couple hours. One eye doctor suggested ocular migraine as a possibility

That sounds fairly similar to the onset of my migraines, and the auras I see. At first my vision just gets slightly blurry, but then I get swirling patterns. Generally that lasts 20-30min, and then the headache follows. I have found that taking a multi-mineral (which does contain magnesium) has reduced how often I get them significantly.

I used to have migraines and eventually had one with aura. Turns out I just needed glasses. Having an out-of-date eyeglass prescription can probably cause the same problem.

(Posting in case this helps anyone)

For me it starts with a small patch of my visual field going blind - not white or black, just not able to see anything or make out detail in that area. Typically it's a spot in the center of my vision such that I can't read. After 5-10 minutes, flashing, swirling colored patterns will appear in that same spot. The affected area then enlarges progressively over the course of anywhere between 30 minutes and several hours, covering a polygonally shaped area with the flashing swirling patterns. Sometimes it will stop after 2-3 hours and gradually disappear. Other times the area of blindness and flashing colors will continue to expand for 6 or more hours until it covers an entire half of my visual field.

After the visual aura disappears, usually (but not always) an intense headache will start that lasts the rest of the day.

Triggers for me are unknown but in the past have included air pollution (e.g. smoke from wildfires) and very bright light (watching a video with a white background for too long on a high brightness TV).

I have also noticed greatly reduced frequency of these migraines after I started taking magnesium glycinate daily.

Mine start with very feint blurriness in my peripheral vision. Then I get almost a vibration of light across the main part of my vision, pulsating in both eyes simultaneously. It’s hard to see anything at this point. I can see the light streaks with my eyes closed, and it usually moves across my vision until it goes back to peripheral and fades out.

All in it lasts around 30-45 minutes. I actually don’t get any sort of physical pain from them, just the auras. Typical triggers are fatigue along with a rapid changing of light source and focal distance (e.g a led display to looking out a window to bright daylight and back). Also led lightbulbs that strobe imperceptibly trigger them for me too.

The same thing you described to me once maybe 8 years ago when I used to work on my laptop at Starbucks and had a grande coffee too many. I thought I was going to go blind and was in bed the whole day. I searched the symptoms and the results suggested a migraine. I never had a migraine before, nor have I since. Since being on Keto 12ish years ago, I regularly supplement magnesium (helps with nail growth too).

My mother had migraines, so now I wonder if she was magnesium deficient, and if coffee/caffeine can sap your magnesium levels.

> Conversely, the study found a positive relationship between high levels of magnesium and those of folate and vitamin B12.

Magnesium is known to be involved in "activating" riboflavin[1] into FMN, which then is involved in "activating" folate and B12 (and B6)[2][3] by transferring the methyl group back and forth to form methylfolate and methylcobalamin. Homocysteine level is often considered a useful measurement of vitamin B12 status.

[1] https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/Q969G6/entry magnesium is also involved in ATP production, zinc is also a cofactor in this reaction

[2] https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/book/export/html/99#:~:text=Ribo....

[3] https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin

Magnesium bisglycinate supplementation (and vitamin D in winter) has greatly reduced the frequency and intensity of restless legs.

This is pretty well known in the RLS community, so just mentioning it in case anyone here could benefit.

Thank you. I found this by chance two years ago. Just a 3 days of Mg supplementation (2 grams/day) was a life-changing experience for me and fully cured my RLS.

Yes, and for me, avoiding gluten- or phytate-rich foods. I routinely get very intense RLS in bed when I forget this rule.

Gluten and many plant anti-nutrients can prevent the absorption of some minerals, so supplementation is only putting a band aid on a much larger problem.

Everybody here is talking about supplements, and I didn't see a single comment about food. So here we go: food that are rich in magnesium: beans, nuts, and seeds, spinach, kale, yogurt, milk, cheese.

Note also that food levels of magnesium are estimated to have declined by up to 80% in the past century (possibly due to more intensive farming with modern fertilizers). So magnesium deficiency is also likely more widespread now than historically.

on the other hand, vitamins and minerals are routinely added to hundreds of common food products in most markets worldwide

I’ve never heard of widespread magnesium fortification of foods. Do you know of a region where that is common?

In the USA - the Bread and Flour Regulations of 1998 require white and brown flours to contain calcium, iron, thiamin, and niacin.

Refined wheat flour is fortified with thiamin (vitamin B1), riboflavin (B2), niacin (B3), folic acid (B9), and iron. Vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, magnesium, and calcium may also be added, but this is voluntary.

Interesting. Where I live (Norway) it’s pretty much opposite: There’s no mandatory fortification of any foods, and only highly processed foods are sometimes voluntarily fortified by the producer. There are strict legal limits on how much you can fortify any foods here, as the health authorities are concerned of e.g. vitamin overdoses or sensitivities.

Instead of fortification they recommend supplements to those who need it. You are allowed to add a certain level of e.g. magnesium according to these regulations but I’ve only seen it added to energy drinks in practice.

Nutrient measurements like the NCC are recent and show that foods that are good sources of magnesium, like those listed, have more than enough to make it trivial to hit daily recommendations.

Has anybody read this headline and wondered whether it means “not enough Mg” or “even a tiny bit of Mg”?

Yes I thought the same.

While English may be at fault for allowing many ways to parse the same strings, it's excuse is it's not a conscious entity that chose anything.

What is the excuse of an article author who has no other job than to communicate?

Felt the same here. Title gives the indication that magnesium, even a little, is bad.

no, it doesn't. it's your "level" of english ^^

It's not. The title is ambiguous. You're used to read headlines in a "headline tone" and you know/assume the meaning because you internalised the fact that magnesium is not bad for you, which is correct. If someone knows perfect English, but doesn't take that fact as axiomatic, the title is ambiguous.

you don't know what "level" means.

Yes! I basically read the headline as “too much” magnesium is bad. Which, was a surprising headline to me.

Initially no, perhaps because I could guess based on prior discussions on Mg.

But, reread after reading your comment and yes I can see that it can cause confusion. They should have been more clear in the title.

There are so many different types of magnesium supplements out there, which type of magnesium should people consider?

my understanding is that bisglycinate is effective without causing the intestinal distress that other forms can cause

I'm probably unusually sensitive, but I hate having to take glycine every time I want to take magnesium. The glycine causes mild symptoms sometimes and tastes aversive.

Most people are not affected in any way by glycine. A normal daily intake of proteins is likely to contain at least 2 to 3 grams of glycine, which is several times more than you can get from a magnesium bisglycinate supplement.

Magnesium citrate is insoluble in water, so it does not have any strong taste. It should be dissolved in the acid environment of the stomach, but it can precipitate again in the intestine, avoiding absorption. Moreover, it can have laxative effects.

The advantage of magnesium bisglycinate (which is the same for the bisglycinates of iron, zinc, manganese or copper) is that it is soluble in water and that it remains soluble until it is absorbed.

The aversive taste that you do not like is probably not that of glycine, but of the magnesium itself. The magnesium ions are bitter (hence the name "bitter salt" for magnesium sulfate). With an insoluble form of magnesium, like citrate, you feel much less the taste of magnesium (but then that has worse behavior in the intestine).

If you do not want to taste the magnesium, you can swallow capsules. Nevertheless, I prefer to drink water in which I have dissolved pure magnesium bisglycinate powder (and also pure potassium citrate powder). After that, fresh water tastes sweet :-)

>aversive taste that you do not like is probably not that of glycine

No, the aversive taste is exactly the aversive taste of glycine in free form. Glycine seems to trigger the mast cells, and my mast cells are chronically hypersensitive, which is why I preface my initial comment with, "I'm probably unusually sensitive".

(I prefer powders to pills, especially for something I take as much of as I take magnesium.)

>A normal daily intake of proteins is likely to contain at least 2 to 3 grams of glycine

There can be big differences in effect between eating a lot of protein and taking a single AA -- especially on an empty stomach.

Magnesium Chelate, is the most bio available.

Magnesium threonate is considered to be the best form by most experts with an opinion, but it is also the most expensive.

If you're not poor, consider buying a jar of that because it gets you started with the least cognitive overhead, then if you respond positively to that, consider switching to something cheaper:

https://nootropicsdepot.com/magnesium-l-threonate-powder/

Easier to just start drinking mineral water.

I make my own San Pellegrino clone with RO water which has a fair bit of magnesium in it and it is far more pleasant way to get it than a supplement.

Chlorophyll's great if you can consume it in adequate quantities. Usually brings other beneficial nutrients as a side effect.

This is about magnesium lowering homocysteine but homocysteine can be lowered with methylated b vitamin supplementation in people for whom it's elevated.

Magnesium is great, but is it really the best way to lower homocysteine levels? Should be easy to test with standard blood tests.

It also causes excess stress and anxiety and mental health issues.

There are magnesium gummies.

And great dietary magnesium sources like spinach and black beans.

Gonna stick with my gummies, thanks.

except the oxalates in spinach

They are not mutually exclusive.

And if you will be drinking water and consuming diuretics like tea or coffee and picking a stressful occupation like tech you're better off having a supplement in addition to your dietary magnesium.

Better that than the self reinforcing doom loop of stress + diuretics + magnesium deficiency = mental health crisis

Add the double whammy effect of tannins in tea, coffee, wine:

"Tannic acid (TA) is an organic compound belonging to the tannin group. [...] It can also form complexes with mineral components, reducing their absorption. In some cases, this can be beneficial, such as in the case of toxic metals, but sometimes it may have a detrimental effect on the body when it involves essential mineral components like Ca, P, Mg, Na, K, or Fe."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10609055/

The effect of phytochemicals in our diets, the only form of defense plants have against being eaten, is severely under-researched, and completely ignored by most drive-by dietary advice. As I said elsewhere, cooking helps, but the dose makes the poison. You won't fare well with a diet of beans, spinach and a ton of coffee or tea, that's for sure.

That has to be sarcasm, right? Beans and spinach are the worst vegetable re: mineral absorption.

Don't eat a ton of beans if you care about your iron or magnesium levels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid

"Phytic acid and phytate have a strong binding affinity to the dietary minerals calcium, iron, and zinc, inhibiting their absorption in the small intestine. It is also present in many legumes, cereals, and grains."

These are chemical bio-defenses developed by the plant to stop being eaten. Cooking reduces the levels somewhat, but it's like suggesting to eat Fugu to increase your Omega 3 levels. There are better sources.

I hope you know that while it's true what you say, the effects last for as little as two hours.

You can eat black beans for one meal and your next meal won't be affected.

Well of course, the effect lasts as long as the food in question is being digested. The point is, it impacts the absorption of nutrients in the same meal, and the quantity of nutrients found in beans is exaggerated given that other compounds impair their absorption.

You need to be more quantitative if you want to make the point you’re making. Fear of anti nutrients is usually a comorbitity of spending too much time in certain social media circles, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/

If magnesium from plants is so hard to come by due to scary chemicals, how come it’s not a nutrient of concern for plant based eaters? They tend to have better magnesium levels if anything.

Random example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15454974/

I learned last week of magnesium based pools, as an alternative for chloride or salt pools. It is said to be good for the skin.

There is also epsom salt; magnesium sulfate heptahydrate. You can add it to your bath. The science is unclear on whether the skin is actually able to absorb magnesium, but a lot of people swear by it.

My understanding is that the science is pretty clear that it's not able to.

Magnesium is one of the most underrated supps

Another source of magnesium (my favorite) is Fiji water.

I doubt supplementing magnesium solves the issues.

Panacea or Magic Bullet Fallacy etc.

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