I've had Pixel 3XL, Pixel 5, Pixel 8, and Pixel Tablet all without issue. I realize that can't be everyone's experience, but the idea that you can't "seriously use" these devices is untrue.
One of my pet peeves is engineers making excuses for incompetence.
Data shows 100% reliability then?
Or do we just do that for brands we're not fanboys of like __true__ engineers?
They're not good data, they're some of the worst. Your idiosyncratic one-off experience should be addressed, but not necessarily generalized from. I feel like this is an important, perhaps even the most fundamental prerequisite for information literacy.
An anecdote is "I forgot to pray before bed last night and now I have a headache. See God is punishing me." and other people agreeing with this happening to them.
Saying, "here is a documented pixel bug that was released on day x but wasn't fixed until day y" is evidence and data.
Once its documented as a real bug then its no longer in the land of weird anecdotes.
How you categorize that is up to you. You can be dismissive of what that bug broke as an "unimportant feature" but its no longer an anecdote.
you can pretend it doesn't matter, but bad word of mouth is all it takes for me.
Battery started discharging rapidly, I got it replaced, barely a year later it’s dying again.
The screen is eating up the battery like me drinking water on a hot California weather.
That's fine, but it's also entirely different from saying that the phones are objectively unstable and bad for everyday use.
The firm that has an interest in everyone thinking there's no data, and that we should withhold judgement.
There's not a lot of good choices here, either you assume that because there's no info, everything is fine, or you assume that the one guy complaining is one of many.
Is it enough data so that, as a consumer looking to purchase one, I would be concerned? Probably.
Is it enough data that I'd expect some engineer at Google (or wherever) to pay attention and address? Certainly, I would expect some engineering team to pay attention to public forums and address issues as they arise. It doesn't seem to be happening. If these phones are supposed to be a flagship items, and I think it's reasonable to claim that they are, it's also reasonable to expect flagship support.
They lost the batterygate lawsuits, right? Guess you missed that fiasco that resulted in Apple paying out over half a billion. In this case Apple deliberately degraded previous user experiences on older phones, which means previous behavior (in this case performance) stopped working, done deliberately by Apple.
yes, it didn't go to zero, but it didn't do what it once did as decided remotely by Apple).
Apple also promised user data security, sold user data, and got hauled before Congress in 2011 for that. But I guess your user data was safe in offshore data silos.
I could go on, but I think your recall on iPhone downsides stopped working.
Let’s not share this absolute misinterpretation of what happened.
Apple fcked up big time on communication, that’s for sure, but it was an absolutely well meaning feature for an old device, lengthening their lifespan. They saw a bunch of random poweroffs due to degrading batteries not being able to output enough power to the CPU, and pushed an update that decreased the CPU clock down a bit. This of course degraded performance, and not having informed the buyers, making it a choice, they lost a lawsuit. But if they would actually do the communication well, it could have been an excellent positive PR, them fixing a bug for a 4 or so years device!
Let's not spin what happened, which has concrete and irrefutable evidence. Here's all the court docs [1]. Apple got caught, most definitely did degrade performance without warning and on purpose, and certainly people at Apple knew some of those device owners would upgrade. That they spun it as a feature once caught is classic spin. Apple is no idiot at marketing - if they thought people would see this as positive PR, they would have announced it and touted it. They did not. The 7 million+ pages of Apple discovery made all this clear. This is why Apple settled for a half billion - they were certainly going to get hammered in court.
Read the court docs, not Apple PR.
[1] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6431809/in-re-apple-inc...
The battery degraded because it was a battery, and the performance had to degrade along with it because of physics.
Apple didn't decide remotely to weaken performance. That performance was on borrowed time. What Apple did wrong was not making it clear upfront that the performance was on borrowed time and wasn't sustainable.
> Apple didn't decide remotely to weaken performance.
It's amazing when people just make crap up without even looking something as simple as this up. Apple lost the "batterygate" lawsuit because they specifically did slow down performance on old phone with an update.
A quote [1]: "Apple has agreed to pay up to $500 million to settle a class action lawsuit that accused the tech giant of slowing down older iPhones to encourage people to buy the latest model. Apple faced a wave of criticism -- and lawsuits -- after acknowledging in 2017 that its iOS software slowed down the performance of some older iPhones."
All the court docs [2]. Knock yourself out.
If you're going to shill, at least take a moment to google a claim before making up nonsense.
[1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-to-pay-up-to-500m-to-...
[2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6431809/in-re-apple-inc...
Apple lost because they did a bad thing, but I disagree with your characterization of what the bad thing was. In particular I will note that your quote says that they settled and what they were accused of, which is very different from a verdict.
They settled because discovery pulled out docs showing they knew full well what they did, on purpose, and they settled for a half billion dollars because they stood to lose far more in court if a jury saw that evidence. There is no "we were trying to be nice" defense that would counter their internal documents and discussions demonstrating otherwise.
Apply doesn't hand out half billion payouts for touchy feely reasons.
Of course they made the update on purpose and knowing what it would do, but that is not the bar for being malicious and causing truly unnecessary slowdowns.
(If it's unclear, when I wrote above "The only thing they did on purpose" I meant the only relevant problem they caused on purpose. Obviously they do a million things on purpose.)
I'm not going to read a thousand pages of documents to look for maliciousness, if you're not going to point to a specific one, and you're not linking to a news article that has any relevant quotes of those documents.
Reading all of that is not "simple".
Can't you show me the specific evidence that made you so sure? I'm not asking you to search through, just for the information you already had.
> Apply doesn't hand out half billion payouts for touchy feely reasons.
I keep saying they did a bad thing. That is not disputed.
I worked on Pixel, left Google in October. I agree vehemently with what you're saying, its just, you're barking up the wrong tree on a couple different levels, the easy one above, and a more difficult one below.
Management did what you wanted a few years back, #1 and #2 and #3 priorities were "stability above all else" since Pixel 6.
This unfortunately didn't do anything in practice, other than enable newly minted middle managers to punch down, hoard work[1], and hide poor decision making and lying easily.[2] Net negative effect on product of course.
What managers wanted to legislate was "care about your features", but I observed over years that you simply can't enforce that. Ironically, given the above behavior from the new management layer, people got more detached. Unit test coverage went up, I'd bet, which is also a lesson in unit tests have significantly diminishing returns. E2E tests are hard and flaky, but they pay 100x dividends in these situations.
What you want to legislate is the truffle hunting that lowest level management does is bad. i.e. say we can definitely do whatever pet thing some guy 3 levels up says we need to copy from iOS this year. Then, hold it back because it's not done, but still announce it. Then, layer on a special process to get you on the betas to get the feature you thought you were buying. All of this keeps each individual happy and yet, remarkably, leads us directly back to the initial situation we were trying to fix.
From all this, you can also derive why things only launch, and never improve (tl;dr: management has 0 incentive to do anything other than latch onto the latest vague ask / iOS copying from above)
[1] Estimate everything takes 3-5x engineers it did 3 years ago. it's a huge win: I'm managing this team because I did it myself 3 years ago, so this makes clear what a talented engineer I was/am. When I solely listen to the vague asks from people 3 steps above, they'll want to give me the headcount I need to get their pet project done, so this gives me more reports. My compensation scales with report count. And if the estimate is questioned in any depth, well, we're making sure we have enough to deliver this Priority™ at high Quality™. Also, no one is going to question it anyway, my manager made me a manager because they trust me.
[2] it's very easy to work around blatant irresponsibility by flipping it into "the guy lower on the totem pole is insufficiently committed to quality and collaboration [taking forever to do anything]"
I have never ever had a phone do that and I have used some really cheap phones.
So I don't think what OP is saying is far from the truth. I am resolved to never buying a Pixel again.
Back in September 2019, my Pixel 3XL had a problem doing an OTA update. I spent hours with Google support (both live and over email). Their only suggestion was to reset the phone and restore from backup.
The problem is... I had had the 'backup' option in settings enabled, the whole time I had the phone. I thought it was being backed up regularly. But I could not create a backup from my phone. I tried rebooting the phone, but the 'Backup Now' button was still greyed out. Based on some information from the web, I disabled my PIN. That caused my Google accounts to be logged out, but DID enable the 'Backup Now' button. However, the backup failed. I tried doing a backup via adb, which also failed.
IIRC this was before Google Authenticator had the ability to transfer 2FA codes from one device to another. So, without the ability to restore from backup, a reset would mean I needed to recreate 2FA codes for tens of services, which is pretty time-consuming.
I wasn't the only person with this problem: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/13519859?hl=en
I really like Pixel phones, and just ordered a Pixel 9. But for the foreseeable future my parents will continue getting iPhones.
While there's a lot you said that I agree with, I find this statement quite an exaggeration. I've owned Pixel phones for the last 7 years, both with stock and custom ROMS, and as much as Pixel seems to always have weird quirks, it's been reliable enough for me that I don't see why it couldn't be a daily driver.
That said, I share your view on upgrading so far that I really hesitate to upgrade anything, whether it's my Pixel phone or something else. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been legit hacked, but I don't have enough fingers to count all the times that software bugs did things like get me stranded, cut me off from my finances, almost get me killed on the road, and so forth.
Although I've never been an iPhone user, Pixel is the best Android phone I've used. I'm a bit biased since it's developer-friendly I'm a software engineer, but I've had the least catastrophic issues (and less crapware) with them compared to other phones like Samsung's line. The strange thing about Pixel is that updates seem to always destabilize the UI, and I'll get weird things happening like the lockscreen coming up and remaining frozen for some time.
I hesitate to defend apple on Hackernews but I have never experienced anything like these issues with any iPhone. Major problem is battery life, other than that I can say the core features of every iPhone I've owned have 'just worked' pretty consistently.
You are 1/7th of the way of your total support period. If you can say you have no problems in 2030, that would be much stronger evidence.
Mid tier Android makers that couldn't secure chipset support beyond 3 years began to realize they have to exit the market a couple years ago, a guaranteed outcome of Apple fixing their story long enough for resale values to impact purchase decisions.
The rental companies typically buy vehicles from the manufacturer at such a volume discount, that they're able to flip them onto the used market a few years later and come out even with taxes benefits factored in.
Looks at their 2010 Honda Fit in the parking lot
Umm, yeah, some people do.
Guess where the trade-in value ultimately comes from.
Something tells me it's a factor in how many people are able to trade their car in every three years or so.
Phones stopped having any meaningful reason to update since a decade.
My 2019 Xiaomi Note 8 Pro is still perfect and capable of answering posts on HN like this, going on YouTube or answering WhatsApp. Pics are also great and battery life is too.
"As of 2023, the global average replacement cycle length for a smartphone is 3.6 years."
I'm not disagreing on a technical level. I agree. I use a pretty cheap ass phone myself that I bought off the rack.
I think it's clear though that phone makers and telecom companies are more than happy to sell people a new one every few years and intend to continue doing that.
https://store.google.com/intl/en_uk/ideas/articles/newest-pi...
- As of 2023, the global average replacement cycle length for a smartphone is 3.6 years.
- 40.4% of people upgrade their smartphone every two to three years.
- The majority of people (75.0%) upgrade their handset due to issues with their battery life shortening over time.
Upgrading a phone also doesn't mean that the old phone goes to the bin or the new phone wasn't used before. Lots of people upgrade from one hand-me-down phone to another, others buy on the secondary market. Longer software support also extends the lifetime and viability of that market.
Sure, eventually the battery dies and the screen breaks. For many devices it's cost-effective to have somebody repair it. Having user serviceable batteries would make it much easier still.
I've had an iPhone XS since 2018/09 (equidistant to 2030 from today), and have had no significant issues – my upgrade cycle is ~6 years, there is at least one of us!
These were the Nexus. Pixel phones are definitely consumer devices. Nexus phones were designed to be rather generic, meant to be used as a model for other manufacturers and as a test platform for developers. It was when Android really was open (or at least more than it is today). They were usable phones, even good ones, but without any "personality".
Pixel phones on the other hand advertises exclusive features, and is mostly picture-focused, hence the name, and also AI, but who isn't nowadays. Nexus advertisement was little more than its spec sheet.
It is inconceivable to me how a phone dialer bug can happen more than once, especially when it involves a life and death situation.
I must say that both Samsungs and iPhones have always been rock solid in terms of stability.
Especially BLE, a startup I worked at had a device that broadcast every 500ms for 375ms. We tested over 100 android devices and the best phone had a 40% chance of detecting the device within 5 seconds…
We didn’t test anything other than androids, my work laptop, and software defined radios.
Different brands, I recall Samsung devices being the worst on average. I believe the better Bluetooth devices were actually nexus/pixel phones… I think the top, by far, was the nexus 9, but it’s been a while.
The product was pretty cool that we built. It was essentially tile or Apple AirTags before both of those were around and ruggedized for usage in commercial usage to keep track of items (dumpsters, underwater diving equipment, mining equipment, portapotties, etc). You’d be surprised how easy it is for some of these companies to lose a dumpster or something else of considerable size and mass.
Building the mesh network and algorithms to determine if someone passed by, moved, etc the item the beacon was attached to was pretty cool stuff.
We also didn’t want to use data as much as possible, but the final determination of “what happened” to the item needed to be server side to ensure we took into account scenarios like 2 unrelated items traveled together for 2 miles, then went their separate ways. So we had to optimize for data, geo, temporal, spatial data, etc.
Given the speed a vehicle might travel and Bluetooth range, you could have 1-5 bbroadcasts to detect a beacons presence and update its location so missed detections were critical.
I've been using the Pixel/Nexus phones for over a decade, and I find this complaint bizarre. I've had issues with the phones (just like I have with my Apple hardware) at times, but nothing like what you're describing.
The real issue with Pixel phones is not that their software or hardware support is worse (it isn't) but the customer support. If my iPhone breaks under warranty, I can walk into an Apple store and get it fixed or replaced immediately. When my Pixel device breaks, even though I live near the flagship Google store, the best Google will do is send me a replacement phone "within 5-10 business days".
The customer support experience is a huge issue, and I wish Google would do something about it. But the other points don't resonate at all.
Just imagine, you are in a life or death scenario and your literal phone has a bug preventing you from calling help.
All other issues are minor. I cannot forgive a bug of this nature.
> All other issues are minor. I cannot forgive a bug of this nature.
Does that mean you will never use Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile, all of which have had carrier-wide 911 outages? Will you never visit the state of Massachusetts, which had a state-wide 911 outage, affecting all carriers, just six weeks ago?
This type of failure is bad, but it's unfortunately a lot more common than you think.
It randomly wants me to unlock the device to play music, but I'm using voice controls because I'm driving. It has my car's bluetooth device set as "trusted" so it shouldn't even require it to unlock to continue, and it's not like asking it to play something on Spotify would reveal any information about myself. Additionally, sometimes it just leaves the screen on in the off chance that it _does_ start to play music, and I feel my pocket getting warm but there's nothing that I can do because I'm driving and I don't want to mess with my phone.
If I knew that it was going to leave the screen on I would just queue up music before I leave, but it doesn't always do it and it drives me nuts. I don't think that my next phone will be a Pixel.
According to https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en pixel 5a is getting eol this month, with the next security update dropping for pixel 6 starting in October 2026
"Last gen" pixel 8 is going to get android and security updates through October 2030
The common security issues (app can get permissions it shouldn't have) are nowhere near as important if you don't download random APK's from dodgy sites.
Overall, my fully patched linux laptop has far bigger security holes than a 2-years-unpatched android.
Personally, I navigate the Android fragmentation mess to avoid Apple's control-freak tendencies. One is annoying, the other is offensive. But I totally see why you might prefer the opposite.
> IMHO all Pixel phones are just developer devices and you can't seriously use them as daily drivers.
Is ridiculously hyperbolic.
OnePlus phones are also really good when new, although updates often introduce new bugs. When OnePlus was more affordable it was less of an issue, but with current prices I expect several years out of a device that expensive.
Just get a Pixel.
For some reason, HN and Reddit just hates this company, and I don't understand why. People talk about "bloat", because Samsung ships with their own apps for things like phone, clock, calculator, etc. But it's trivial to uninstall those, and/or set the Google stock Android counterparts as your system defaults.
People get all weird about One UI, but my son has a Pixel and I have a Galaxy and I honestly don't see much meaningful difference between the two (other than his phone getting hot as hell because Google's own Tensor silicon sucks). I just recently switched back to Android from Apple, perhaps these UI skins were further apart in the past?
I think a lot of contrarians just hate Samsung because it's the market leader, simple as that.
https://i.imgur.com/9uUJLaz.jpeg
I've never seen any kind of UI where the "Home" button wouldn't be in the center. And you have the option of placing the "Back" button on the left and the "Open Apps" button on the right, or vice-versa.
Recent android versions have put more of this in the the hands of the app, for better or worse. So it's not especially material nowadays.
My point is just that it's an example of Samsung making design decisions which leverage the fragmentation to create confusion among the users.
I noticed it when my boss said that non-galaxy devices feel awkward. I ended up using his phone later and realized why: vendor lock in through muscle memory. It's the kind of monopolistic move that only the largest fragment can benefit from--anyone else puts themselves at a disadvantage by departing from Android defaults. But Samsung, since they control the majority, can bias the market in a way that makes the defaults feel weird. It's rather Apple-like if you ask me.
... which is why I use a Pixel. I hate Google, but they're what I'm stuck with, so I might as well not be messed with by anyone else.
In fact, when I first setup this phone, I had to specifically choose to make the home bar visible at all. Because the current default setting on Samsungs is to use "gestures" only. The same as the default setting on a Pixel now. All Android manufacturers seem united in pushing this, to ape iOS.
There are plenty of reasons to choose a Google Pixel. And I wouldn't quibble with any of them. But it's absolutely bizarre to point to a default setting as a reason, when they are configurable and when both brands use the same default setting anyway.
So many of these discussion threads are like this. It's perfectly fine to prefer a Pixel over a Galaxy. But people so often seem to take umbrage against Samsung for some reason, and when you poke at a little it rarely makes much sense.
Once they got their yelling out, they would sometimes ask me why Samsung would bother recreating all of the Google stuff if it was indeed 95% identical. What's in that 5%, they'd ask.
How do you answer that question without seeing Google's influence on the software as a necessary evil and Samsung's as an unnecessary evil?
My Nexus phones were described as "designed to fail and impossible to fix" by a repair guy.
Edit to clarify: constant problems with payments, bluetooth, eSIMs.
My theory was iPhone probably got tested on most 3rd party accessories. However, the fragmentation in the Android space meant I’d have no idea what devices they actually tested with.
This is further compounded by the fact that Android isn’t really an open platform, at least in a practical sense. I can’t just load up a patch for something (assuming it exists) without fully switching to some open source ROM that’s going to come with its own issues.
Bluetooth is so old that it was coming into use when Computer Shopper was still published. It's been a dumpster fire of compatibility since its inception.
There's one of two culprits on the Android side: either its the device drivers, or the OS itself. Device drivers should be capable of being subjected to stringent acceptance standards in order to advertise "Bluetooth". If it's the OS, that's even worse since it is higher up the abstraction stack. At least the device drivers being closer to hardware have an excuse.
Bluetooth is 26 years old. A 26 year old industry standard should be better than a coinflip as to whether some bluetooth thingamajig will work with a mobile OS. It's just sad.
Ballpark as old as USB if not mistaken, and that's saying lots ...
Saying it's not fair to compare them is like saying it's not fair to compare a minivan to an SUV when making a car purchase. They're different, but similar enough.