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Comment by espadrine | Hacker News Reader

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is.

When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

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"The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is."

I'd love to know where this idea started, because I'm not convinced it's actually based on any kind of real data. If it is, I don't think it's accurate for the past 5+ years.

Knowledge of the web is probably flat. And apps and smartphones have peaked in the West. Those are my anecdotes to add, since that seems to be what we're doing.

This line of thinking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy the more it's spread, too.

The idea that Safari is lagging behind is nonsense too. People live in their own fantasies. Press someone to explain what bugs or missing features they're specifically saying are holding the web back and you will probably get a very short list of nonstandard or experimental APIs like WebUSB.

Here's a site that lists a few [0].

I will say that if you've spent any time trying to develop a web-based app it becomes painfully obvious that Apple is doing the absolute bare minimum to support the browser on iOS. PWAs are barely functional.

[0] https://ios404.com

Played your role, as expected. No actual problems described and a link to a list of mostly "draft" and "candidate" items. Every fucking time.

Do people search for applications in the App Store or on the Web?

This 2023 study[0] indicates 48% of people discover apps by browsing through the App Stores, compared to 21% that discover them through Web search engines.

Is this a trend?

This 2015 study[1] indicates 40% of people browse for apps in the App Stores, compared to 25% (“1 in 4”) that discover them through Web search engines.

Does this apply to Patreon?

The CEO of Patreon had this to say:[2]

> iOS is actually now the most used platform for communities on Patreon.

[0]: https://www.semrush.com/blog/app-store-optimization/

[1]: https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and...

[2]: https://youtu.be/L-LoTH3PzgM?si=F1xraTOFxx8SJN0C&t=61

We're talking about "knowledge of the web." As in, the ability to recognize what a URL is and use a browser to access it.

I posit this segment of the overall population in non-developing countries is flat for the last 5+ years. Apps surged for a decade and caused a lot of handwringing about the web's future, but it's clear the web is here to stay. The new AI craze wouldn't have even gotten off the ground without the web's corpus of recent and relevant data.

The web is just too frictionless. It's old and crufty and for old fuddy duddies (I don't know how Gens Z/Alpha view the web vs. apps, but that's not this conversation -- they know it exists and they're savvy enough to use it when necessary). It's like email. Will it ever be sexy "again"? No. But I think it'll always be there.

Kids don't use email... until they need to for their job or college, etc. Email will never die. The web will follow a similar trajectory.

If the money flees the consumer side of the web (more focus on paid native apps, the death of third-party cookies and possibly the ad ecosystem, etc.), that inches the content back to the 90s/early 00s ideal, which I'm all for. But that might be overly optimistic.

My daughter’s boyfriend just bought a MacBook for college- his first Mac. He was immediately flummoxed going to the app store looking for apps that on a Mac are just websites.

He was somewhat appeased when I helped him find the Spotify Mac app though. Just going to their website just presented the music interface, with no links to the app download (which isn’t available in the Mac app store I would guess, since the BF hadn’t found it.)

Developers not allowing iPad apps to run on M-Series Mac’s are really hurting themselves with the younger set.

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser

It wouldnt matter that your app is just a web view of your website, as accepting payments that bypass the ios payment system gets your app banned.

... Thus the conversation in the first place.

But browsers, which are apps, can accept payments that bypass the ios payment system, no?

Won't be surprised if Apple blocks this too or redirects URLs to open the app in the app store.

That is disallowed by section 4.2 of the App Review Guidelines[0]:

> Your app should include features, content, and UI that elevate it beyond a repackaged website.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

The irony of so many apps being electron wrappers is apparently lost on Apple. I'll just be happy if Teams could stop eating battery for once.

Though honestly jokes aside, this rule still doesn't make a lot of sense (to me). Webapps are capable enough. What does Uber's app, or the Google app do, that's different from their websites? Heck, even Apple's own notes app is simple enough that I'm fairly sure you could make a webapp out of it. I think tasks.org already has such a webapp/website.

Few iOS apps are based on electron, I would think.

Discord joins the conversation.

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to display bookmarks as icons on a scrollable and searchable canvas.

For good reason. The web is a cess pit which people will avoid if they can.

A term which in no way also applies to apps, that have vastly more ability to spy on you, and DMCA protections against interop and modification. /s

At least the spying is efficient, I guess.

The app store is also ridden with scams and crap. But the web is a horrible experience for normal people compared to apps, which the down voters here don't seem to understand, because they have adblockers etc.

Normal people need ad blockers about the same way they need clean water. I wish advertising was a viable revenue model for publishers, but it has been abused by large actors for so many years that large US government entities like the FBI recommend an ad blocker[1], and even the FTC lightly suggests it [2].

[1] https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221

[2] https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-websites-and-apps-coll...

The advertising industry is a malware services market.

Many apps are also ridden with ads, can collect way more personal info than a web site, and unlike sites, it's way harder to block their ads. (E.g., installing a PiHole on your network vs installing a browser extension.) Altering an app is a DMCA violation of whatever cryptography they use; altering a web site is your legal right via extensions/userscripts.

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