Show HN: I built Mailhub – A scalable API for sending emails with ease not tears | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: I built Mailhub – A scalable API for sending emails with ease not tears

mailhub.sh

As Ops person responsible for email at my company, I looked it over. We are not coming off SendGrid so I'm not your customer. I didn't make an account but just looked over the documentation. Here my initial thoughts.

First thought, UI looks great. Better than I've dealt with. However, this awesome UI information needs API desperately. While you are working on this API, please make a reporting API key only.

Pricing isn't ideal. I get wanting simpler pricing and initial X per month with Y Limit is great starter but being able to buy in utilization as an option after that point is better.

Premium having no daily limit will bite you. Telling you now, someone will sign up with stolen credit card, spam like hell and you will be left with clean up. Been there, done that.

Lack of SMTP Client support means it's nonstarter for us. While most of our apps use SendGrid API to send email, we have some SMTP legacy lying around.

to field in your API being string or string[] is frustrating. I'm sure it helps with onboarding, but I've found weakly typed fields always bite in the end.

You got a misspelling in Premium: "For all needs, all teams & all *projets*"

Thank you for your feedback; it's incredible. Precise and effective, it's exactly what helps us improve the product. So, first of all, thank you!

I understand your comment regarding billing, and we will work on that to make it easier to understand.

Regarding the daily limit, Mailhub is a v2 product of a previous one called Mailwind, which was a similar "plugin." We decided to rebuild everything from scratch—the code, branding, everything. So, we've already encountered scammers as you described and have implemented an effective system to prevent that:

Maximum security on our payment provider (Stripe Radar) A custom AI that analyzes sent emails (by code or template) and reviews the content. In case of excessive fraudulent sending, the account can be blocked. Thank you for the warning; we've already dealt with this kind of problem. I understand your request concerning SMTP. We aren't ready for this service yet, but we will work on it very soon. Do you have a contact I could use to alert you when this service is implemented?

As for the "to" field, you’re right, it could be an issue. We prioritized ease of integration but will ensure this feature is monitored closely.

Regarding the typo, fix in progress, thank you!

You're welcome about the feedback.

As for contacting me, not really, I enjoy my anonymity of Hacker News and anyways, we are satisfied-ish with SendGrid right now. So even if you got the feature, we are not potential customer at this time. I'll keep your company in mind in case that changes with SendGrid or I change companies.

EDIT: When I say Ops person in charge of email, email isn't my sole focus, in fact it rarely comes up. However, when SendGrid misbehaves, I'm first one that is called.

I understand your desire for anonymity, and I respect that.

Thanks again for your valuable feedback; it’s definitely one of the most relevant, even though all feedback is important!

You seem to be a great asset to your team, so it's no surprise they call on you, haha. Best of luck moving forward, and thank you!

> A custom AI that analyzes sent emails (by code or template) and reviews the content.

Referring to proprietary logic (fuzzy or not) as AI?

Both There are rules for filtering, but there is also an AI that allows checking the potential danger of the content.

so emails sent are shared with third parties and added to models?

I didn’t understand, can you explain What do you mean ?

Does this call 3P LlM apis like chaptGPT? Does it send any of my email content and/or recipient data into those 3P?

That is a nonstarter for some companies. Not saying it’s the wrong choice, but it will narrow your market.

We do not wish to reveal the system that has been implemented to detect potential fraud on a public forum like this one, but I can assure you that no confidential information can be disclosed to third-party services. While we may occasionally use services like this, we ensure that no sensitive data is sent, as long as the Mailhub service is used correctly.

What do you define as confidential information? Not trying to be snarky - just wondering if the data I send you goes to any third parties.

he already said they use 3p services "like these" now it's just a matter of playing with words so they decide how much of your data and meta data is fair game

Hacker News delivers again. What an incredible example of quality feedback from a would-be customer. As one of Mailgun founders, I can also confirm/agree with all of the suggestions above.

> Telling you now, someone will sign up with stolen credit card, spam like hell and you will be left with clean up. Been there, done that.

Ignoring this advice killed some companies in this space.

Exactly, it's incredible. It's a pleasure to exchange like this. As mentioned earlier, we've already experienced similar issues and have done everything we can to prevent it from happening again. Thank you for emphasizing this point, especially considering that Mailgun is a pillar in the field.

The pricing info is confusing and maybe inaccurate(?)

It says:

Up to 500 emails / month 100 tests emails/month | 50 emails/day 100 test emails/day 50 emails/day

That's a bunch of conflicting info. I'm not sure what the actual limits are.

It also says "Remove watermark" in the free tier, but "No watermark" in the paid tier... what's the difference between those? Seems like you can have no watermark in either tier?

Finally, do you use dedicated IP addresses for sending? If so, how do you keep your IP reputation clean? What if a spammer signs up and sends thousands of spam emails - will my email sends also be affected because we share the same IP?

Thank you for your feedback. I agree with you, and I understand that the pricing might seem a bit confusing; we’ll work on that as soon as possible!

As for the watermark, it’s only present in the free plan.

At the moment, we’re simply using Amazon SES services and have implemented a robust system to monitor complaint rates, bounces, and especially potential spam.

We plan to use our own IPs to ensure better service, but our primary goal right now is to find our Product-Market Fit (PMF). It’s in the pipeline.

We’ve done a lot of work to prevent spammers. In the past, with the predecessor of Mailhub, we experienced this kind of problem and have put everything in place to ensure it doesn’t happen again.

Very stupid question and I apologize if I sound like a nitpicker but I had to ask There are like 10000 email guys out there. Mailgun, Mailchimp, Sendgrid, Mail this, Mail that. What made you build another email sender and how is your offering any different from what these guys are doing?

You're right. And honestly, it might be a bit crazy.

As a project manager in several small startups, I've often been frustrated with the existing solutions.

In certain projects, I had to juggle 5-10 templates in multiple languages, and it quickly became a nightmare to manage on a daily basis.

So, I took all the points that drove me crazy and tried to turn them into something cool (or at least less of a headache).

Except for Resend, I find that most of them are overly complex, and in the end, we're limited. The developer experience is far from perfect, and I'm convinced there's a niche to explore.

And I'll say it again, but it's probably a bit of madness.

Did you build an api or a server with an api?

One of my pet peeves. ;)

An API

Incorrect

Up to 500 emails / month

100 tests emails/month | 50 emails/day

100 test emails/day

50 emails/day

What are the limits really and what is the difference between a test email and a non-test email?

A test email is a request sent with a development API key. The email is processed just like in a traditional send but isn't actually delivered. Instead, it ends up in a "virtual outbox," which prevents damaging your domain's reputation while still allowing you to intercept the emails. It's a bit like Mailtrap.

The pricing might not be the clearest. My apologies.

We're pretty heavy senders on Mailgun. I'm not a huge fan of them, in particular now that Sinch seems to be slowly trying to force their hands into everything. Biggest features we like are their analytics and tagging support so we can see open and click rate on the different types of emails we send. Purchase dedicated send IPs is important so our reputation isn't getting tanked by some spammer sharing an IP, and their "Optimize" product which pulls in Google Postmaster, Microsoft SNDS reporting, trap monitoring is really great.

I understand. With Mailhub, we're trying to provide a fresh, simple, and effective solution.

We haven't yet developed the option to rent IP addresses, but we could consider it in the future.

We'll keep our users informed about upcoming updates!

Thank you for your feedback.

Hi HN,

I'm Clément, a freelance developer for 5 years now. I've worked in several startups and often encountered the same problem: creating stunning transactional emails was a real headache to create and maintain.

So, I created Mailhub, an email API with all the tools to make it easier to build, test, send, track & monitor transactional emails

Among other features, you can:

- Use reusable layouts & pages powered by Tailwind - Dark-mode & responsive supported - Access a virtual outbox - i18n - Build from pre-built templates ...

All of this comes with a simple API & reliable deliverability rates.

I hope you like it as much as I do. I'm really open to feedback!

See you soon

Looks interesting. API is cool, price is acceptable.

Only 2 real questions in my mind, both of which can only truly be answered over time: 1) price stability and 2) deliverability rates.

Rant: SMTP is just a bad legacy joke that should be augmented (replacement is probably not realistic) with some new API standard.

There's nothing wrong with SMTP. It's perfect. If your complaint is that it isn't a binary protocol, then you're the type of sender it was designed to keep out.

Thanks for your feedback

Indeed, your two questions will answer themselves over time, but we are doing everything possible to keep competitive prices. As for the deliverability rate, we have implemented several mechanisms to ensure that it remains optimal.

I agree with you about SMTP. Emails in general are a legacy joke.

>I agree with you about SMTP. Emails in general are a legacy joke.

Problem is, most replacements I've seen are even worse vendor lock in. While I hate SMTP to, it being one of last open two-way long-term communication systems out there is something most of us should be thrilled with.

A modern, standardized API would negate vendor lock in. And it wouldn't have to replace SMTP, it could simply be an alternative option.

There is no reason that sending an email can't be done with a simple, single API call. The back and forth "dance" that SMTP requires is just an absurd waste of time. There may have been a good reason for it at some point but today, it's hard to imagine what that was.

One thing I just noticed with your API --- no mention of support for attachments.

This could be a show stopper for a lot of applications.

Yes, I didn't added yet, will do it asap! Thanks

In the meantime we'll use legacy jokes then

Really happy to see some action in this space. Sendgrid is still pretty decent, but I can't stand their parent company Twilio anymore.

Tailwind though… ugh… is proper CSS still an option?

(The expressiveness of the template language is pretty cool but uncomfortably similar to ColdFusion.)

Minor critique on your marketing page — the blurred images in the marquee look like they're a glitch, like the browser is downloading low-resolution copies on accident. Maybe replace with scale-up or a subtle ken burns effect?

otherwise it's really nice!

Thank you for your feedback, it's very valuable.

Yes, I had needs for my startup clients and never found a solution, so I decided to create one. I tried to combine the best of both worlds: flexibility by keeping HTML code and simplicity with Tailwind and other tools.

Thanks again for your feedback. I'd be happy to hear more if you try the product.

About the landing page, I took note of that, and I'll address it as soon as possible!

Nice pricing, slightly better priced than other email APIs.

I can also use it with my own templates, where I pass your API the full email body as HTML? I've already done the work for managing my own email templates and would only need a swap-in replacement for the email deliverability part if Mailgun becomes too expensive or their service declines after their acquisition.

You can use the templates you've already built elsewhere; it will work exactly the same way. You can also convert them to Tailwind for better clarity. And you can split them into layouts and pages to take advantage of reusability.

Are you using SES for actual sending?

Yes, I do

Thinking homophonically, Malehub seems like a great name for a Grindr clone.

Hahaha, I hadn't thought of that. I realized that "hub" could indeed quickly make people think of a well-known site. I figured that, in a mostly male-dominated sector, it could only be more striking. And it worked on you!

Happy to se that it’s working ahaha

I need one for sms. twilio is garbage now.

What's with the Tailwind CSS stuff on the home page? It seems a bit out of place to me.

Why ?

This looks like a great solution to the problems that designers have with emails, but I'm not seeing much for other stakeholders – marketing, merchandising, engineering, compliance/legal.

It looks like the only tracking is open rate? Now I don't enjoy being tracked myself, but sadly it's a fact of life in email marketing, and table stakes for email products – is there any click through rate tracking? How do you handle custom click through domains? How do you handle anti-tracking technology in Safari? How do you handle open rate tracking with Gmail and other clients pre-loading images?

A common request from marketing (name may vary) at my previous company was for all emails to be sent at a specified time. Do you handle this? If not what's your send-rate per customer, how long should customers budget for a campaign to go out? What's the quota per customer on the send API, how many requests per second can they make?

A common request from engineering at my previous company was for emails to be spread over a time range so that the site didn't receive a million hits at once, even just hits loading dynamic images from the emails, let alone actual click-throughs. Do you have any controls for spreading delivery over time?

How do you ensure your users are GDPR compliant? The example email on the homepage doesn't show an unsubscribe link, but these are legally required in many countries. How does the tooling support this? Do you offer end-users one-click unsubscriptions? Are users prompted when they attempt to save a template without an unsubscribe link to prevent human error?

Having developed a few HTML emails in my time, this does look like a joy to use for that purpose, but having seen a company try out different transactional and marketing email service providers, overhaul their email approach for deliverability, cope with the Safari tracking changes, keep a site online during sale periods, meet regulatory compliance both for the company and for our clients, and accidentally DDoS itself with emails multiple times in different ways, I'm not sure Mailhub solves or aids any of these problems.

In the end we mostly either outsourced the HTML email authoring for little money or used frameworks like MJML, and the HTML email "tears" went away.

If you have solutions to these problems, great! I'd highly encourage you to add them to your marketing page or docs (I couldn't see them) because these are things potential customers may be looking for. If you don't have solutions I'd encourage considering them.

First of all, thank you for this incredibly detailed feedback. Once again, thanks to HN.

I’ll try to respond to each point as thoroughly as possible.

Mailhub is a tool primarily intended for technical teams to use for transactional emails, although it's indeed possible to send any content you want.

There is tracking for both opens and clicks. Technically, it's similar to what the competition offers. I admit that we haven't yet tackled more specific issues like Safari's anti-tracking technologies.

We’re currently working with simple technologies. We’re still in the early stages.

We don’t have a campaign scheduling feature, as we’re focused on transactional emails, which are typically sent via the system in response to user actions. That’s why we haven't implemented the suite of tools you mentioned.

As for GDPR compliance, it's up to the developers themselves to ensure they comply. We have several ideas to make this easier, and it’s in the pipeline.

Regarding MJML, I completely share your view and am not trying to challenge that technology. I'm simply offering a similar tool (which simplifies email editing) but from a different perspective.

We’ve taken note of all your very pertinent remarks. Thank you for these valuable insights; they’ll help us determine the future of Mailhub.

Thanks!

Could you remove the powered by Tailwind?

Why ?

Is it just me or the fancy animations makes the page laggy when scrolling?

I am on firefox on Linux.

I'm working on a relatively powerful PC. Thanks for bringing it up; I'll look into it soon!

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