Comment by jofer | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jofer | Hacker News Reader

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AWD has come a long way in that regard in the last few years. It's still highly variable from manufacturer to manufacturer, but systems that use internal clutches alongside brakes (and not only brakes) to control wheel movement + tight feedback loops can really do a great job of minimizing wheel spin.

They get a lot of hate, but the bronco sport has the best AWD system I've driven to date in that regard.

And with that said, it is still the type of thing the Park Service would rightfully cite as not a proper 4wd. 9ish inches of clearance is not much, and the lack of a low range will bite you. I've taken mine on plenty of milder 4wd only trails in parks (e.g. black gap in big bend plus tons and tons of forest service roads), but I'm certainly not going to do elephant hill in canyonlands with it. That's what the dedicated off-road rig is for.

There are "4wd only" trails in national parks that high clearance AWD is fine on. The rangers will tell you which ones those are.

Canyonlands is a different beast than most national parks. Canyonlands has some very gnarly trails open if you have a permit. Lookup dollhouse sometime. Beautiful, but insanely technical. Elephant hill is better known and a bit milder.

> I'm certainly not going to do elephant hill in canyonlands with it

Someone has, albeit with a slight lift.

https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/off-roading-o...

From their report of "the little three-, two- and (very occasionally) one-wheel-yeet maneuver", it sounds like the lack of suspension travel was the main issue. The details of your AWD or 4WD system don't matter as much if you can keep your wheels on the ground.

Still, just because they were fine doesn't mean someone else would have been. The main risk seems like doing a somewhat technical, off-the-beaten-path trail alone regardless of your vehicle's capabilities.

Yeah, I came across that earlier. Definitely impressive!!

I completely agree with your general point (articulation matters a ton!) but I have to take a bit of issue with:

> "The details of your AWD or 4WD system don't matter as much if you can keep your wheels on the ground."

That's where the details of the system matter the most. Getting torque to a single tire is the hard part and the reason folks focus on it so much. A _very good_ AWD system can get enough torque to move the vehicle uphill / out of a tough system to a _single wheel_. Most can't. Most traditional part-time 4WD systems can't either. Open front and rear diffs are the norm in "true 4wd". Locking rear diffs are starting to become commonplace, but only a few stock vehicles come "triple locked" from the factory.

I grew up wheeling an old mid 80's S10 Blazer. Fun, small, fit down trails well, had the "holy grail" 100" wheelbase. Solid rear axle + IFS. Manual transmission. Good (enough) articulation. Plenty of clearance. Big enough tires. Crap horsepower. Worse gas milage. "True" part time 4wd with a transfer case (i.e. would 100% meet the NPS's definition in this case). But open front and rear diffs. I got stuck every time I got a tire off the ground.

I've taken the little bronco sport plenty of places I tried but could never make it in the Blazer. (And to be fair, vice versa... Big muddy ruts are not something I want to put the sport through for clearance reasons, and that's kinda what the Blazer did best.) At any rate, good modern AWD can often beat traditional part time 4wd with open front/rear diffs when wheel lift comes into play. On the flip side, independent suspension all around means it's going to lift tires _all the time_, so it _has_ to be good at it. Most AWD systems unfortunately aren't, even though some are these days.

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