Uh, the US has a deeply dysfunctional system. It covers most aspects of governance, judiciary, legislative, electoral system, the fifth estate.
It’s entirely reasonable people are only concerned with outcomes, and not process.
It's a very short-sighted thinking of how the process change they want to achieve their outcome today could result in someone else using that same process change for a very bad outcome in the future.
This point needs to be amplified to a near unbearable volume. Turn it up to 11, as it might be said.
Discussions like packing SCOTUS to achieve "desirable" outcomes today completely ignore what the next person in office can/will do with such a precedent tomorrow. We can see this already with Executive Orders and how commonplace they have become - only for the next person in office to undo most or everything.
People, in general, need to be more focused on what is best for the nation long-term, not what is best for their political party today. Unfortunately for many, it seems, the difference has become blurry or unrecognizable. So many people have become victims of believing whatever propaganda their party of choice has put out there, and become hostile to any viewpoints that do not fall inside those lines. "We'll lose our democracy if X happens or if Y is elected". How many "most important elections of our lifetime" are we going to have?
How many more candidates will buck precedent and try to actively overturn election results?
In my estimation each election is quite consequential if at least one candidate is behaving in a way that undermines democratic norms.
Do you see the problem?
That's the short sightedness the GP was commenting about, and it's kind of nutty to realize so few people comprehend such a basic concept. Yet, here we are.
MAD only works when both sides are rational.
Nobody is packing the court right now. What’s on the table (and only as a discussion, not even as an actionable legislative proposal) is a reasonable package of term limits and meaningful ethics rules — rules that frankly shouldn’t even be a little bit controversial, or even necessary if the Court was doing an even mediocre job of self-policing. But if things get extreme and the Court does begin to cross political lines and override electoral decisions, then I would much rather see a Constitutional response than political violence. My hope is this possibility causes everyone to be as cautious as possible, rather than starting a political war nobody will win.
> But if things get extreme and the Court does begin to cross political lines and override electoral decisions
This is now the information bubble that was also discussed in this thread.
No, "one side" is not using the court to realize political outcomes. Both sides are - and one side had a few decade head start if we really must sling mud. Some people don't like the outcomes recently, so they attack the courts as being stacked/abused/etc. forgetting all about the past few decades where they championed nearly every outcome...
In politics, you don't always get what you want. Some people find that concept inconceivable. When they don't get what they want, it must be because of cheating/abuse/criminality/whatever.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_leanings_of_United...
That’s gonna take perhaps 100 years, nobody is even talking about it. One party wants to move to some sort of crypto-fascism where a former but dwindling majority will stay in power forever. The other party fashions itself as the „only“ democratic choice against that, and enjoys that position of being the only choice… and doesn’t seem to see the irony that if you’re „the only choice“ in a democratic system, it’s not a democratic system.
In the meantime while fixing the system, please deal with the climate crisis, otherwise this whole „long term view“ will be moot.
For example, I've had it argued to me that that homosexual individuals shouldn't be allowed civil unions, as doing so would lead to the bankruptcy of the federal government. The "long-term thinking" here was that allowing unions between homosexual individuals would, at some future point, lead to allowing unions between polygamous groups*, which would then lead to people joining in unions for tax purposes, which would then lead to a disruptive loss of income for the government.
Alternatively, we pass giant tomes of legislation (esp budgets) which literally nobody can understand let alone agree on.
Conversely, not passing laws is a feature, not a bug.
> Alternatively, we pass giant tomes of legislation (esp budgets) which literally nobody can understand let alone agree on.
I agree. These massive laws are rushed through precisely because leadership knows that people won't have enough time for debate, let alone in proper order.
No, instead the system is working as designed. When there is no consensus on a policy, the policy is not passed.
In a representative democratic system.
The US does not have a representative democratic system.
That's not even close to how laws get passed. If what you say were true, then why don't we have many laws the vast majority of Americans want and have laws most Americans oppose? Americans are overwhelmingly against gerrymandering, but miraculously there's no law banning the practice. They also disapprove of overturning Roe v Wade and corporations being considered people. They support legalization of marijuana, support free college education, early voting, data privacy legislation, criminal justice reform, and a 4 day work week but again no help there.
"who fund their campaigns" fits at the end, doesn't it?
ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+are+bills+written+by+lobbyist...
Although "who kept a lucrative job waiting for them, once their term ends" works too.
ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=revolving+door+congress&ia=web