The Saucer – A DIY trackpad attachment for the Voyager | Hacker News Reader

The Saucer – A DIY trackpad attachment for the Voyager

blog.zsa.io

94 pointsrobenkleene59 comments

I own the Voyager and it's a great piece of kit, my only wish is that it was wireless, but the team has clear reasons why they've stuck with wired boards (https://www.zsa.io/wireless). A trackpad would be lovely. Very portable and comes with a great key editor to handle layers.

Also worth checking out the one-man Bastard Keyboards (diy and prebuilt), he does the Charybdis kits with trackballs, or the Dilemma Max split mech with a trackpad alongside ortholinear keys: https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma-max-prebuilt-preorder/

https://sterling-key.com/

works for me on a qmk keyboard with a trackball!

Also check out Handheld Scientific's BT-600

http://handheldsci.com/kb/

Be sure to read their documentation which includes a fair amount of macro programming.

I followed the "wireless" link, but thought they'd have much better arguments. Couldn't you make a replaceable battery, and an optionally-wired keyboard? Yes, wires are great (I went with wired for mine after my BT one proved too flaky), but wireless controllers are so cheap nowadays that you might as well add a wireless option to your keyboard.

Their anti-wireless argument is pretty weak imo. My logitech K780 takes two AAA batteries that I literally replace max once a year. And it uses bluetooth!

Technology breaks everywhere. Wireless is just one more thing to go wrong. Especially for a device that never moves on my desk. Which does not even address the multiple security issues which have been discovered in keyboard protocols.

what strikes me as odd with the Voyager though is that the marketing is geared toward using this as a portable alternative to larger split keyboards like the Moonlander.

one marketing photo stuck with me and actually put me off buying it: it had a laptop setup at a generic coffee shop with a cable looped around it going to one half and another connecting the two halves. it looked ridiculous and reminded me of just how annoying that connector cable could be at times.

Although there's a lot of people who don't like to tinker, it is very easy to replace an internal cell pack if the designer went with one.

I have a wireless Ergodox from SliceMK. It works well and uses solar for charging!

What is "the Voyager"? I guess I can find a link to it in the navigation bar, but I had no idea what this article was talking about (a computer?) until then.

it's very funny that there isn't just a picture of the end result mounted on the keyboard

Yes, that should be at the top of the page. There is one in the build guide.

It should be somewhere in the page. I instinctively scrolled to the bottom looking for an end result but couldn't find one. I was so confused lol

Its a DIY split keyboard:

https://www.zsa.io/voyager

>> What is "the Voyager"?

> Its a DIY split keyboard:

For me, the next mystery is What is he trying to do?

His issue: [cats] graze the edge of my trackpad [making] mouse around register weirdly

His solution: I had seen some implementations of a Cirque trackpad on other DIY split keyboards

I would describe (his presentation of) his solution as "Darmok and Jalad..." but that would be oblique.

So, what is a Cirque in this context?

The whole thing is written for insiders. Nothing wrong with that, but when it gets picked up by an aggregator like HN you have the issue of 99% of your new readership having to figure out what exactly it is you are talking about.

It's a spontaneous, Cooperative MMO.

Well, luckily whenever that happens, someone asks "wtf is going on?" and the entire comment thread fills with all the context you could possibly need

It is programmable but the HW is sold assembled and ready to use. Wouldn't qualify it as DIY.

Open hardware perhaps?

It's open source for sure. But yeah, there's no DIY required (which is why ZSA and their keyboards are so popular - it's the Apple of the DIY-programmable-ergonomic-keyboard world, providing excellent build quality and great experience for a price).

It’s an ergonomic split keyboard. I have one. It is nice to type on.

That said, I personally find that having so little keys is a problem. I like typing on it, but when I am doing heavy sysadmin stuff, it is not a pleasure to use. You have to spend a lot of time planning this keyboard and its layers out for your workflow.

It is also not great for gaming due to the reliance on hold keys.

Overall, pleasure for typing. If you workflow needs a lot of layer switching, I was not a fan.

I was equally confused, google left me more so

I have a moonlander that I love, and I want to add a trackball or trackpad to it.

I saw the mod that Kevin Christensen wrote on ZSA's site: https://blog.zsa.io/diy-moonlander-trackball/

The missing piece is that the trackball doesn't click, and this seems to be the case in general with trackballs on the market.

Does anyone know why trackballs don't click? I'm imagining a casing that would allow the entire ball to drop by a few millimeters to trigger a click. One potential reason is that it's hard to click without moving the mouse on screen, but I'm unsure of how much of an issue that is in reality.

I build keyboards/mice for a living and also think a trackball with tap to click would be great. Intuitively I see why this would be complex to build. I would say the major paths are a physical switch or touch sensor. I see the physical switch as similar to a mouse wheel which lets you middle click it;- disassemble a mouse and see it's really quite complex to have this whole electronic component move up and down hitting lever. Now imagine trying to mount a similar system below a trackball with 3 far apart touch points and continuous movement of the ball rather than the discrete movement of the mouse wheel which can absorb some rotation (as you mention). I think a touch sensor would be a really interesting way to go, you could probably pass conduction through the right ball and sensor touching the ball, A force feedback vibration motor might also be possible.

thumb-keys on the moonlander for click!

The angle of your thumb on the ball will change and turn the ball unless the press is perfect parallel to the axis of the switch at the point exactly opposing the switch on the ball.

what about a mechanism that 'locks' the trackball in place at rest, and then requires a little bit of force to 'unlock' the trackball to track?

whatever you are using to activate that mechanism, should just be your click button.

I could see a "sliding vs static friction" trick for a passive mechanism, but anything that worked would so wear out very quickly.

Excellent work. This is a key component of a truly ergonomic keyboard for me, and only a tiny fraction of fancy keyboards include pointing devices.

I discovered that round trackpad module a while ago, and considered a similar project. I ended up getting a UHK paid for by my company's ergonomics budget instead.

Unrelated, but I had to do a double take! I too had two naked cats, Java & Mew

Mew (sleeping like the firefox logo) - https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd....

Or sprawled - https://i.imgur.com/iQlwA8h.png

Java (who likes to suck her tail like a thumb) - https://packaged-media.redd.it/g11ncwdswpj31/pb/m2-res_1080p...

Regarding the project, love projects like this

Note to self and others: please don't plug in/out a TRRS into your keyboard while it's powered. The TRRS usually shortens pins during insertion/removal, which can damage your keyboard. Most keyboard designs do not properly guard the circuitry against the evil of TRRS.

Ideas that occurred from reading this:

A. Add x and y strain cells to the trackpad [0] so that it acts like an IBM TrackPoint for broad movement when a still thumb applies lateral force. Trackpad capacitance is used for fine movements.

B. Keycap LEDs powered by inductive current [1]. Bonus points if phosphor cob is shaped like characters and can be embedded in a key molding (heat a challenge).

0. Cirque GlidePoint Circle Trackpads: https://www.mouser.com/c/?marcom=118816186

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q5GVDQC/

Not to negate the work and customization, but a simple solution that’s worked for me for years is a Wacom tablet in addition to split keyboard. Works on Win and Linux, and pen input is max ergonomic.

Interesting to see Plasticity used for actual manufacturing CAD work, I always though you'd be better of with a dedicated tool like FreeCAD and rely on Plasticity for artistic work and asset modelling. Glad to see the project get traction, been following it for several years.

Plasticity is what I want to look at for my next modeling program, but so far I seem to be able to make what I want using TinkerCAD, so I'm getting along without having to climb another learning curve.

I've wanted something similar for my Alice layout keyboard: attached to closest edge of the keyboard, between the 2 space bars, would be a good place for a wheel or trackball.

A roller or wheel in that position would allow either thumb to use it with hopefully a minimum of movement/stretching.

Have you seen this?

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/

If only UHK was ortholinear. I have Ergodox EZ now and it's almost perfect. Wouldn't want to go back to a non-ortholinear keyboard.

Makes me want that modular add-on to be a standard on keyboards.

Arghhhh... I did not have to see that... I was happy with my Kinesis Gaming Freestyle RGB Edge KB... Sigh, checks wallet...

Thanks!

It's the best keyboard I've ever owned. The uhk with the riser is my final form.

Now I wonder how complicated it would be to implement a pointing stick (aka track point aka the red nipple from the Thinkpads). I think it has the same benefits as this circle track point with an even smaller footprint.

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com has a trackpoint option.

And this thing can be added on to others https://holykeebs.com/pages/trackpoint

This is so cool. Thanks !

As was said in another comment, the UHK has a trackpoint option, which is what I chose for my right module. I highly recommend it--it's replaced mouse usage for me in most situations. (I.e., any time that I'm not doing something only with the mouse.)

I've seen quite a few people do something similar with repurposed PSP controllers since a few years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if there's something more purpose-made available by now, if you search around.

I liked the trackpoint on my Thinkpad keyboard, but with so much dead space on most ergonomic keyboards compared to a laptop, the benefits of such a small pointing device are lost.

Those are two of the ugliest cats I have ever seen, no offense.

I've never really understood the attraction to hairless cats. They look like someone's scrotum instead of a cute ball of fluff that I expect from a cat

They are Sphynx cats[1]. I'm not a fan of selective breeding in cats. Dogs, which have been much more selectively bred, have a huge number of inherited health issues as a result. E.g. pugs and other dogs with short noses tend to have a lot of health problems[2,3]. Cats have largely not been selectively bred, but selective breeding is becoming increasingly common and has negative impacts on the animals' health.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_cat

[2]: https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/health-wellbeing/at-...

[3]: https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-animal/documents/q...

Always surprised when people buy (as opposed to rescue) one of those health issue ridden pups which are constantly hobbling around and panting from just walking. Some people find it cute but it really is sad to see the little gremlin have a painful life trying to do normal dog things.

I had an old classmate buy a French bulldog as a puppy, and found out two days later it needed major surgery. She posted this to Facebook as a “poor me” post. Infuriating. Bring the dog back and get something healthy instead of encouraging that awful practice.

2/3 dogs I’ve had in my life have been mutts and they’ve been incredibly healthy, smart, and loving.

I don't understand the purpose of your digression into selective breeding in dogs?

> the Sphynx was developed through selective breeding of these animals, starting in the 1960s

Dogs have a longer history of selective breeding and so provide evidence of where we can expect cats to end up if selective breeding of cats continues. (Also a little bit of education for people who might not be aware of these issues.)

Until now I've found cat hair to be an annoying substance. After the surprise of that page; well, maybe it isn't such a bad thing after all.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one

They are adorable little scrotum aliens! They are hideously cute :)

PSA: A Voyager is one of the myriads of custom, so-called "ergonomic" keyboards out there. And beware of the photos of the authors' cats - torture breeding specimen.

Are you suggesting a standard keyboard is somehow more ergonomic than one that can be adjusted to fit an individual's preferences?

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