1935: Britain's First Milk Bar Opens | Hacker News Reader

1935: Britain's First Milk Bar Opens

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56 pointspepys55 comments

Correction: Britain's first milk bar was opened in Colwyn Bay in 1933. The Black and White Milk Bar was London's first milk bar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-12038590

The last remaining branch of this original chain is still trading in Ellesmere Port, albeit as a fairly conventional cafe.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/last-rem...

That same article says Griffiths, the founder of National Milk Bars in Wales, got the idea when he saw them in a trip to London, and that they were an idea imported from the United States, so it must go back farther still.

I remember seeing these in "A Clockwork Orange" but naively assumed it was a concept invented for that Universe.

I had no idea this was actually a thing.

Except of course in that the milk had drugs added to it, while the point of the real milk bars was to provide a similar atmosphere to a pub without the intoxication.

The Pathé newsreel in the video embed at the bottom of the page explicitly states that milk is tasty "when you know how to drink it" while showing a man pouring almost certainly alcoholic liquor into the milk.

The USofA variation on the milk bar added a drug:

     Proprietors of a soda fountain in Aspen, Colorado made the Aspen Crud, a cocktail of ice cream laced with bourbon, taking advantage of laws that enabled drugstores to sell alcohol for medicinal purposes.

https://www.history.com/news/ice-cream-boom-1920s-prohibitio...

> while the point of the real milk bars was to provide a similar atmosphere to a pub without the intoxication.

What does this entail that the concept of a restaurant or cafe or cafeteria does not?

Normally in a pub you have multiple drinks over the course of an hour or more while you socialize. It's a very different scene than restaurant where you order a meal, eat it, and leave. Cafes/coffee houses could be similar but still, while I have been known to drink several pints at a pub, I can't imagine drinking several lattes in sequence -- the caffeine would seem too much.

More socialization, I guess?

Like the modern coffee houses.

It's also in a lot of Nintendo games (or at least the US localizations), I always assumed it was something they made up as a cute kid-friendly alternative to having literal bars in their fictional worlds.

Zelda: Majora's Mask! This is probably localization independent since it had cows inside iirc.

But in what other games?

IIRC Mario Party 2, on the cowboy board.

If I pony correctly, they skazat that the drencrom sharpens you up and makes you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.

Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJH6NTDq_A

Ah, yes, my droogies and I know well that a proper swig of the old moloko plus, with a dash of drencrom, gets us sharpened up and ready for a night of ultraviolence. Really keep things horrorshow!

I could never quite listen to "Singing in the Rain" the same way since

Me droogie!

somebody needs to save you from yourself

In Australia, Milk Bars are the equivalent of corner shops.

Interestingly, the etymology suggests the Australian term is directly derived from the English milk bar mentioned in this post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_bar

Some places in Massachusetts there are corner shops and small restaurants with “spa” in the name. It’s similarly a reference to a soda fountain (even though the business may not have had one in decades).

Fresh NSW Milk: are you getting enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQBc2dmUiHs

I'm Australian and I've never heard a corner shop be referred to as a Milk Bar. I'm relatively young too though. Could be that.

Yep growing up in Australia they were a very common thing (and this was only 20-25 years ago).

Do neighborhoods still have 'deli's in Australia? Like, little 'sells everything' shops? I was there in the 70s'/early 80's, and always found it great that, in the suburbs, you might often wander around and find a 'deli'.

20c of candy in a bag, a copy of some obscure comic book for another 85c, a pack of fags for Mum, some extra milk-duds and choco-babies, and bobs your uncle!

Yes. They are still there, and like milk bars, still have an anachronistic name: newsagents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsagent%27s_shop

In Poland we also have "milk bars"(bar mleczny) but they are very different to what's described here - they mostly serve cheap, simple meals, mostly flour and milk based - dumplings, pancakes, soups etc. Traditionally meat was very rare on the menu, nowadays more common because I guess the clientelle expects it. But the general idea was always that it was a place where you could eat very cheap meals.

More info here(in English):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny

Similar to in Hungary. In hungarian milk bar is called "tejivó". There is a popular chain nowadays running under the name. This is what they say on their website about the history of the name:

"The milk bar ("tejivó" in Hungarian) is no new invention. Its history in Budapest dates back to the early 20th century. Such shops used to sell beverages made with milk, soft drinks and pastry. Some Hungarians still recall the exceptional atmosphere of these establishments, and the splendid feeling of sipping a steaming cup of coffee while eating a delicious croissant."

https://www.cserpestejivo.hu/why-the-name-tejivo.php

The closest British equivalent would be the British Restaurants, which were opened during the war by the Ministry of Food to provide inexpensive and nourishing meals. Many of these restaurants continued to operate for decades afterwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant

In East Germany a "Milchbar" was exactly what one would expect from the name: A bar that's open during the days for families and kids which offered fruit-flavoured milk, milk shakes and ice cream :)

If you are visiting Poland and want to try local food, these places are great for getting a bunch of (usually good) dishes at a low price. Some of the older ones are really old though, with the menu and decor not updated since the communist era.

Apparently the first was in Sydney, Australia. It opened in November 1932 and was called the "Black & White 4d Milk Bar". No coincidence that London's Milk Bar was opened by an Australian and it was called the "Black & White Milk Bar"?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2373518X.2023.2...

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/world-s-first-milk-bar-l...

https://australianfoodtimeline.com.au/australias-first-milk-...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-modern-milk-bar-an-a...

At lunchtime, it is my experience that Irish people do not drink alcohol, however, it's common to see old men drinking pints of milk in pubs.

Chills. Remembering Korova Milk Bar from A Clockwork Orange’s dystopian world where Alex and the droogs would get their fill of milk laced with enhancing drugs for a fun night of ‘ultraviolence’. Stanley Kubrick took it to another level from Anthony Burgess’ original book. Wendy Carlos musical score took it to another level. She used the Moog synthesizer exclusively. On a related note..I was telling someone how she is an icon and revolutionized digital music making.. and heard that she had removed her scores from ACO from public domain. You can still find the TRON score etc. But her Beethoven classics..I just can’t find it anymore.. at least it’s not on iTunes.

She's kept her stuff off the Internet and any form of digital distribution since long before streaming services existed

What a great cautionary tale. A novel idea is important. A large moat is required.

I'm reading about the founding story of many startups .. at the early stage when they had few users, there was no moat. Success seems is a big moat. If this guy had taken venture financing(I know this wasn't a thing back then but humor me), trademarked milkbar, peppered ads everywhere, it isn't inconceivable that he'd get to 500 stores. Would that have led to lasting success? Unclear.

Nothing stopping you from trying this today :)

Health startups are bigger than ever

Interesting how they’ve evoked (at least in the US) to be more milkshake and ice cream heavy. The Milk Bar bakery might be the closest big chain to the original idea.

Evolved? There's a photo of the bar headlining the piece; milkshakes and ice cream are the only advertised products.

ah yes evolved, I blame autocorrect :)

But ya, they've evolved in that now they're more into deserts/"crazy shakes"/general food even.

The picture in the article mentions "bootlegger" flavor. Anyone know what that's referring to and what that flavor tastes like?

ovaltine on the menu when it was called ovomaltine. i never knew that

It's still called that in continental Europe: https://www.ovomaltine.ch/

That's a mouthful. They should call it roundtine.

It would be nice to have a modern version of this imo. We are more aware as a society of the many disadvantages of alcohol. Granted, alcohol free alternatives exist but they may create a social dissonance with the rest of the patrons.

Plus alcohol is (perhaps understandably) taxed so heavily.

When I lived in London a bottle shop/bar/coffee shop opened in a railway arch near my house.

In the day it was mainly parents with children or the occasional remote worker, and as it hit 5pm more people would come in for beers - though they served coffee and snacks all night.

One time we were in there having a couple of coffees and chatting while my son was tiny and sleeping - I apologised to the owner that we were having another round of coffee and not drinking beer. He said not to worry - for every coffee we drank he made about £2.50 profit, for every beer it was about 50p.

Really opened my eyes to the potential profit margins at various businesses, especially those that can cater to very different customers at different times of the day.

Beverages are usually the money maker at restaurants.

IIRC, Coca Cola syrup for fast food restaurants is on the order of pennies for a gallon of soda.

There is a totally nonalcoholic kava bar where I live.

Kava is a nonintoxicating plant with alkaloids that improve mood and enhance sociability.

The kava bar a fantastic place to sit by yourself and easily fall into a conversation with other people at the bar or the kava-tender.

I do think kava is illegal in some countries, which is unfortunate, and being that it grows on pacific islands, it's probably rather hard to import for most places. But a wonderful plant and wonderful concept.

Milkshakes per se are a bit out of fashion but nowadays the fashion is "coffee shops" like Starbucks that are similar if more coffee-based.

Agree, coffee shops are the modern version. Only 25 years ago as a student in Manchester pubs were everywhere, and we often used to go to the pub at lunch time. Went back there recently and all the pubs we used to frequent were gone, replaced by coffee shops and people with laptops and smart phones :)

Coffee shops have been around for centuries. How popular they are varies as fads come and go, but they have been there.

Yes, but coffee shops a la Starbucks are a relatively recent thing, and they sell "coffee" that looks more like a milkshake than a cup of coffee...

> Milkshakes per se are a bit out of fashion but nowadays the fashion is "coffee shops" like Starbucks

Milkshakes are one of the most popular things Starbucks sells.

Though for unfathomable reasons they insist on adding coffee to almost all of them, as if that were the reason people buy milkshakes.

Yeah they are not milkshakes they are coffee! ;)

They appear to offer "creme frappuccinos" in a section of the menu that in at least some Starbucks is labeled "non-coffee". I can't actually tell whether those frappuccinos are also coffee, or not. The official ingredients are things like "Frappuccino Chips" and "Mocha Sauce", preventing you from knowing what's in them.

Starbucks has pivoted from coffee shop to desert beverages, pretty much. They still will sell you a coffee but they feature a variety of desert drinks.

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