He Skipped College to Become a Repairman. He's on His Way to $175k a Year | Hacker News Reader

He Skipped College to Become a Repairman. He's on His Way to $175k a Year

wsj.com

26 pointsfortran7748 comments

I'm not fond of these articles that hype up the 0.1% - 0.01% earners of unskilled jobs. Simply for the fact that it gives a very wrong picture of how well you can earn, and second - the more you earn, the HARDER the job is. Physically.

Your pay is directly proportional to how dangerous and demanding the job is.

As a student, I used to work as a longshoreman whenever needed. The pay was phenomenal - as in $500-$1000 a day. Some of the guys that worked full time would pull $10000-$15000 / month. Everyone knew about this job, but the realty was:

- High paced backbreaking work 12-24 hours a day (you'd unload 20-50 kg blocks of frozen fish from the refrigeration room on large industrial trawlers)

- Working in really terrible conditions. Freezing cold, lots of noise, always on the lookout for falling objects.

The only reason I could work there, was because someone got injured - and you always had injured people there.

The oldest guy working there was in his mid 30s. By the time you were pushing 40, you'd be too injured or slow to work there. The lucky few were placed to operate the ship crane.

But the pay was good, probably the best in town as far as unskilled work goes.

The trade job salary headlines are clickbaity like the social influencers, etc.

Though, this example marks a path that isn't as batshit crazy as roustabout work on a rig.

This article mentions someone

1. Starting as a union apprentice @ 70k/y

2. Reaching 130k/y after 3y with continuing education.

3. Then rising to 170k/y after another 4y.

Not everyone may follow the same path/financials, but this mixes unions, training, and career progression that is far more attainable and sustainable than a reference "$$$ for missing fingers" job.

Longshoreman is unskilled labor, not a trade. Plumbers, electricians, etc. don't have an excess of backbreaking work and if anything, the work might be physically preferable to sitting in a chair all day.

Even if you are a plumber or an electrician, the job gets physically very demanding and hard when you are in your late 40s and early 50s. It is near impossible when you are 60+.

The charm of white collar labor is, you can keep doing it till, say, 65. With the same productivity, if not more. Say, you are a bank teller or a cashier. You can be as effective, if not more, as you were in 35.

That's why almost all people, who have even a slight chance, want a white collar job.

If you know a plumber or electrician, in his late 40s and early 50s, or older. Talk to them. Ask about their reality and situation.

Some of your misconceptions might go away.

Electrician is not sitting in a heated room and working on a toaster. It is also wiring industrial buildings, apartment buildings, etc. standing on stools and ladders before those places have heating or AC or lights- in ten degrees or hundred. That's just one example.

I know many people with these jobs, almost certainly more than you, as I grew up around them, not white collar people. Almost all of them worked just fine until their late 60s.

People seem to forget that being mobile into your 60s used to be an entirely normal thing. It’s only fairly recently that obesity, reliance on cars, and sedentary lifestyles have made being mobile in middle age a difficult thing.

My wife's dad, electrician, did it all the way into the 70s

> Even if you are a plumber or an electrician, the job gets physically very demanding and hard when you are in your late 40s and early 50s. It is near impossible when you are 60+.

Exactly like software development, then, except for the physically-demanding part. :)

Or alternatively they are kneeling on the floor. Just look at your average room. Where are the outlets usually? Even with kneepads that can't be good for your knees. And most outlets are in pretty easy to access locations with reasonable amount of room around them.

What is really definition of backbreaking work here? Moving sacks of cement or digging by hand all day?

Somehow I feel that many of these trades are bit glorified and reality is much harsher. Often there is parts of job that means moving heavy items occasionally. And often lot of the job happens in less than desirable locations where for example you need to keep hands above head for long time or pull quite heavy cables or pipes around.

Well, a longshoreman is pretty much by definition physical work, because you’re moving heavy stuff around. Being an electrician or plumber may involve being in uncomfortable positions or workplaces for long periods of time, but I don’t think I’d call it “backbreaking.”

I don't think too much of that work happens by hand anymore. Most of it is by machine or simply securing cargo. Not that dealing with chains and like is lightest job. But days of manual labour happening are quite gone.

So are you saying that the job doesn’t qualify as backbreaking either?

Being in uncomfortable positions all day is absolutely one way to give yourself long term back injuries. I’d still describe it as “back breaking” even if you might not break your back with one big movement.

I actually also worked as an apprentice (electrician) for a year before deciding I wanted to pursue electrical engineering.

I mean, it's a demanding job, too. You work with your hands raised up a lot, you'll have to get into all kinds of places, and there's always the possibility of getting electrocuted. Most of the guys I started with became electricians, and have since pursued "office" jobs in the trade, in other words getting their engineering degree , so that they can work inside. A fair share of them have also experience stress injuries in arms, shoulders before hitting 30.

Not all trades require additional backbreaking labor in order to make top rates.

Some of these trades have specialties that require a great deal of training, skill, and experience, and pay is commensurate.

For example, telecom, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC work is frequently not backbreaking work but still great rates. There are probably many more jobs in unionized or defense (or both) which have great salaries or rates, but without a lot of backbreaking work involved.

As a bonus, once you've learned the ropes and gain more experience, you are well on your way to becoming a foreman or even entrepreneur, if so inclined.

As a college student without any experience, it makes sense that you would end up trading your young and fit body for higher pay, but that isn't always the case. Experience in that individual industry will help you see what the possible upgrade paths are.

I always say there are people who make millions playing basketball, but it probably doesn’t mean you’ll be among them. Trades should in theory be respectable, well-paid jobs if you ask me, but it doesn’t seem like we value them as a society.

I always wonder what people would advise their own children to do. I don’t (and won’t) have any, but I’d still tell them that the best idea is to get some sort of in demand college degree, but I myself had a hard time with that as it’s very hard for me to study subjects I’m not interested in. I was fortunate that my interest ended up being at least a bit marketable.

For most unskilled jobs age doesn't seem to be an issue. I feel like every plumber in town is in his 60s right now.

Calling a plumber an unskilled job is incorrect. That said my plumber is about that old and had to refuse a job for me that involved swapping out a water heater because he did not feel up to the task anymore.

Agreed. And he probably doesn't even have to. (Incidentally, swing by your local big box store at closing time and ask the guys in plumbing if they want to make $500 or $1000 by putting in a water heater tonight; that worked for me, anyway, even on a Friday night.)

I just paid $4,000 for a very experienced plumber and his apprentice to replace a tankless water heater that I could buy new on Ebay for $1,200. That extra $2,800 was pure profit for a job that took four or five hours, and I also had to wait a day before he could fit me in.

To be fair, I’m talking about an old school fifty gallon tank type water heater. My parents just built a house with an electric tankless one and I actually laughed when I saw how tiny that is. The same plumber who refused the job for me was happy to put that in.

Exactly - two guys in the plumbing dept were happy to haul it up to the attic and install it. They probably quadrupled their hourly rate for a few hours and got finished by 9pm on a Friday night.. so they probably burned through some of that $250 each shortly thereafter :)

So you skilled plumber and his apprentice work for free? Their experience is also available for free? Taxes? Travel time/costs? Office costs, someone needs to schedule jobs and send out invoices?

Plumbing is a skilled trade

I think, if the WSJ wants to make me a believer in "skip college and join the workforce," the can promote things like better labor laws, universal health care, and a social safety net. Instead of the opposite, that is.

The physical conditions of blue collar jobs vary widely. The tradesmen who come to work on jobs at my house, if they're my age, look 20 years older. Most are hobbling. Many will stop working before 60, or end up in lower paying jobs such as retail, that are less physical. They have to keep working because they have no retirement.

Many occupations are seasonal, or cyclic. The construction industry is fickle.

Many occupations involve mostly smaller businesses that are "below the radar" of OSHA and other regulations. Many of the smaller businesses are family owned, meaning that your chances depend on connections and favors. The ability to move up into an ownership position may depend on family wealth.

Some skilled trades are nicer, such as many health care jobs, but still involve physical work.

Granted I'm only mentioning the extremes, and not everybody can be a computer programmer.

IMHO, in the US, software professionals deserve at least the 36-month simple moving average of the USD equivalent salary of 50 troy oz gold in their first year, plus 5 troy oz for each year of professional experience. That's a bare minimum for a remote position. For a big-city hybrid position it would be at least 60 and 6. This is a somewhat noise-proof and inflation-resistant metric. Currently the SMA36mon is USD 1951. Solving for $175K, that's after 8 years if remote, or after 5 years if hybrid in a big-city.

That goes back to "do what you like". There were many people who went to tech in the 90s just for the pay check and it showed.

Glad to see this person do what he wanted, repair people are hard to come by these days and I heard there is a rather large shortage. So sadly, I guess that trend from the 90s may start to repeat for general contractors.

You can defn tell the difference between those who are software engineers because it was something to major in college - versus those that do it because it was the funnest thing we could think of doing with our time

Every single job.

Unless what you like changes (as is only natural), then say adios to your "career".

Funny term that, "career". Barrels career down hills.

Careen?

"Career" does have the suggested meaning.

I've never seen it used in that way. Thank you.

Works where archive.ph is blocked:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he-skipped-college-to-beco...

Text-only:

https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/AA1o9nrN

I know a few guys in the same skilled trade of HVAC. One makes as much as most senior software devs and the others make about $70-80k. I also know plenty of devs with 5+ YOE making less than $100k. That’s still pretty good money, but the difference is ambition and work-ethic. The same is true for college grads in many, maybe most, cases.

I don’t know why we need to pit career/life paths against one another. Find something you can excel at or something you can coast and be comfortable.

I agree. I love coding and don't think I'd like non-creative work as much, but there's definitely nothing wrong with trades; it's honorable work, and I'd encourage anyone to seriously consider it if they weren't sure what they wanted to do.

Also I'd probably argue there's a fair amount of creativity in the trades. Large- and small-scale optimization problems are everywhere, after all.

You're right, and there are probably also many opportunities to invent new tools and techniques and pursue entrepreneurship, for those so inclined.

> Haynes passes Leonardo a rusty, dented Crisco tub, which he and Price use to lubricate the pipes they work on.

I can't believe someone decided, "Hey, we should take this stuff we built as a submarine lubricant, and market it to housewives to make fluffier pie crusts."

Evil genius.

As far as I know, Crisco was not developed as a “submarine” lubricant. It was designed for food use as a lard substitute. That said, it’s really not healthy for consumption.

I suppose I had my order of operations turned around. Lard substitute first, war lubricant later.

https://www.thedailymeal.com/1386775/crisco-facts-why-people...

That is most cool. Thanks for posting.

> Louie Leonardo climbs inside a boiler and tries not to get knocked over by an industrial power tool

Dangerous jobs pay a lot, yep. How long can you do a physical job like this for though? What’s your body going to feel like after?

Think I’ll stick to typing characters into a laptop for 200k+. Yeah RSI sucks but not as much as getting smacked in the face by an errant industrial machine. Happened to my grandpa only once. Never met him.

I had type-code-into-computer jobs before starting college so while going to, but not finishing, college helped, it wasn’t a requirement.

> How long can you do a physical job like this for though?

I have seen people at their 70s that they were doing phisical job under the summer sun for a half day. Half at their age I can do it at most for 10 minutes.

My grandpa in his 80s was more physically fit than I was at 40. He was a plumber, born in 1890.

... congratulations? Not everyone can be a coder, either due to circumstance or capabilities. Not sure what point you're trying to make. This guy is making the best of his situation.

I’m glad the OP likes their job as a programmer. Many find it boring and the idea of sitting in a chair eight hours a day torture.

Therefore, it’s fantastic we are seeing a resurgence in interest for the trades. The job can pay well, and unlike programming, one not need to worry about obsolescence. We live in the physical world, and will always need people to help build and maintain the physical world around us. A tool like ChatGPT is not going to replace a reciprocating saw or tin snips.

Finally, I come from generations of blue collar workers. All worked to 65 and enjoyed a decade(s)+ retirement. It’s not true manual labor destroys your body. A sedentary lifestyle however is a known health risk however.

The point is somebody is pushing the narrative that it's better to get a blue collar job than to get a college degree and a professional or technical job. That might be true but it's a trope in certain circles and its a debatable one. Moreover it likely has more to do with shaping the perception of the value of education than it does with the value or lack of it. And that has nothing to do with this individual and their success or lack of it. Good on him.

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