Give Us Your Geniuses: Why Seeking Smart Immigrants Is a No-Brainer | Hacker News Reader

Give Us Your Geniuses: Why Seeking Smart Immigrants Is a No-Brainer

theatlantic.com

24 pointsa5seo13 comments

I'm a "highly skilled immigrant".

I moved to the US at the age of 17, to go to college (on full financial aid). I graduated and stuck on for a PhD in computer science. American private organizations (i.e. Williams College) have spent $200,000 on my education. The NSF (which indirectly through my advisor's grant funds my graduate education) spends $80,000+ per year on my education. ($160,000 so far, and counting)

Let's leave alone the stupid fact that my visa (F-1) is explicitly a non-immigrant visa (if I say that I have an intention to immigrate to the US someday; I can be deported or denied re-entry or visa renewal). So time spent in the US doesn't count for squat. If I hypothetically wanted to stay in the US, I would have to go to the "back of the line" and get an H1-B.

I'm from India, so unless I qualify for an EB-1 visa (i.e. I get a tenure track position at a top research university) it's 5+ years on the Green Card waiting list. During those 5+ years on the waiting list I am tied to an employer. This, obviously, decreases my negotiating situation. If I get fired, I have 2 weeks to find a new job or get deported. If I switch jobs, the green-card wait time can in some conditions be restarted. I am at the whims of a ridiculous bureaucracy at all times (the few times I've dealt with USCIS for employment authorization for internships have been a nightmare).

The H1-B is a poor option. Forget startups.

In contrast, due to my youth and education I am eligible for a work-permit not tied to any particular employer in Canada, and qualify for permanent residency in a year or two. Same with Singapore. The UK used to be the same before the Conservatives came to power and halted all immigration.

To the xenophobes, I'm not saying I have a right to enter your country. I'm just asking whether it's in your best interests to severely discourage me from entering. I probably will leave when I'm done with my PhD. No. I certainly will leave, because to state otherwise risks deportation under current immigration rules.

I recently did some informal research and found that Canada has by far the most positive public opinion towards immigration among "rich" Western countries.

Many European countries view immigration in almost entirely negative terms (largely for xenophobic reasons) and have been competing to make immigration of any kind harder.

The UK has even recently made it harder for foreign graduates of UK universities to get work visas - a policy which I find to be MINDBOGGLINGLY stupid. Aren't those the EXACT kind of people that you'd want to stay in your country?

Yes! All good points. The US is losing here. Still an attractive country, but more should be done for it to maintain the edge.

"If I get fired, I have 2 weeks to find a new job or get deported."

Actually, you have 0 days. You can be deported the next day. The decision totally depends on the officials involved.

I finished a job on Jul 15, and got an offer letter dated Aug 1. I actually took two weeks off as I had no idea about this stupid business.

Although I got my H1 transferred to the new employer, Immigration asked me to leave the US, visit a US embassy outside the US, and come back in. I was clearly told that the official at the US embassy can deny me re-entry as I was "out of status" for 15 days. Most officials are considerate, but many people have had horror stories.

It does not matter that you have zero civil/criminal issues, paid more yearly taxes than the salary of many people, have an advanced degree from the US and have a life here (relations/friends, car, house etc).

My latest employer goofed up when renewing my visa. And I have to go outside the US for a month this time. Mine is not the only story, you can google for more.

And you are right...I am deeply wary of joining start ups and rejected a few offers.

Well this is interesting. Third story from the top is about how Reddit is kickbanning a bunch of sites (e.g. the Atlantic) for nasty SEO, then a5seo submits an Atlantic story, his history is full of submits by the Atlantic, and he has steady stream of submissions with zero comments. Joke? Art? An SEOer not paying attention?

Yeah, I think OP owes us some explanation.

I'm the OP. So here's the deal... I read The Atlantic daily. I actually wrote a script to check their feed and score the stories via the sharedcount API and email me the best-of-the-best.

If something is interesting to me and I believe it would be useful to other startup hackers like me, I submit it. It's that simple.

If there's something to be gained from doing this (aside from hopefully spurring an interesting discussion on HN), I'm not smart enough to figure out what it is.

The people who are anti The Atlantic should re-read the posting guidelines which describe as on-topic, "Anything that good hackers would find interesting."

Interested in behavioral economics? Government policy that affects startups? Human psychology that we should accommodate in our apps? Technology trends? Yeah, I'm sorry to say but The Atlantic, Salon, Wired, etc. are some of the best at covering that stuff.

If this content is no longer welcome on HN, we need to get a LOT more precise about the Guidelines.

Look, I like the Atlantic too, but your username looks a bit weird - SEO rubs a lot of people on HN the wrong way.

> SEO rubs a lot of people on HN the wrong way.

It's too bad. The bottom line is that what SEO means/does is pretty wide ranging, and my idea of it (making content usable/understable for bots) is very different from the dismissive circus caricature conjured by the masses.

But my bet is that I'll win the meaning battle in the long term. patio11 and randfish are good examples of people who are moving the perception toward reality.

For all of the people on HN who bitch about how MBA types have idiotic stereotypes of programmers, it might be worth considering the view from our own glass house.

The OP looks like a legitimate user to me. Thoughtful comments on other stories, and recent submissions from a wide variety of sources, with no publisher clearly favored.

I immediately thought the same as you when I saw an Atlantic link, though.

There are a bunch of users like this on HN. Look at any "ITWorld" story that hits HN; odds are, it's been submitted by a single-purpose account that submits only stories from ITWorld. Torrentfreak has had similar users.

For us in Africa the more stupid the US is about immigrants the better because you educate us on your money then send us back to build our countries.

One problem is that the "admit geniuses" folks keep tying that to "admit everyone". The former has wide-spread support while the latter has wide-spread opposition.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com