I do think this is true, but if you include those times you'd also have to include the nights where it ruined friendships (or a host of other negative consequences). It would be an impossible study to execute, but I do wonder on-balance across long time periods and large populations what the overall net affect of alchohol is on mental health.

In your experience, is the alcohol required to enjoy the night out?

I've personally had nights out with and without alcohol that were just as much fun. I'm also very much a homebody though, so I'm not a great sample to really say either way.

I agree with you. It comes down to risks vs benefits, and I feel that for a huge number of people that aren't predisposed to addiction, that don't need to drink to the point of blacking out, etc., it may very well be worth it.

I know that my "principled" refusal to drink in my younger years made socializing a lot harder and just generally put a barrier between myself and my peers. Of course, a stronger person could overcome those challenges without alcohol, but that seems like a Herculean task for someone who's already shy and lacking self-esteem.

I guess I just don't see it as black and white.

I have cherished memories of boozing out with friends but I would not link this to ”mental health” benefits given the documented onset mental health issues including depression and alcoholism is directly linked to alcohol consumption.

Drinking occasionally can be ’fun’ and it can have social benefits but in large scale studies of populations increase in alcohol usage don’t show ”mental health benefits”.

I would state ’studies have not found quantifiable benefits of alchol use’ and that can still coexist with claims that the benefits of alcohol to yourself are not quantifiable - which is sort of fair, many aspects of human life are beyond reach of clear metrics.

The adverse effects, however, are quite quantitifiable by healthcare statistics. While outcomes vary in different populations, the outcomes are never positive (per current resarch).

”I find a few drinks per week with friends enjoyable” is not a claim that would be in contest with the above. It’s just not a population argument.

Some people like it, some can sustain a lifetime of boozing, but there is a non-trivial amount of people who develop depression or alcoholism - and this is not a flaw of character or culture but simply a fact of interaction of alcohol with human biology and neurology.

You need to find different friends that you can enjoy being with while drinking coffee, or tea, or smoothies, or boba.

It’s possible to go out and not drink. I can’t tolerate any amount of alcohol and I’ve definitely gone out drinking. Most people have been understanding. If you’re having a good time and encouraging drinking like everyone else is, no one really cares as long as you play the part. (“I would if I could, party it up.”) It helps to know a few mocktails that look alcoholic. :)

A night out drinking can often result in consequences that last a lifetime.

Alcohol is not needed for that to be beneficial. Orthogonal at best.

The mental benefits, including significant increase in suicide and interpersonal violence? /s

You are talking about literally the single substance responsible for the most human (mental/physical) health damage out of anything we've managed to come up with so far, and not for a lack of trying. You still have some time to reflect and delete this comment (I think HN gives you about an hour).