Sig Sauer guns hanging on soldiers' hips may be firing without trigger pull
npr.org
npr.org
https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2022-12-02/lawsuit-alleges-20-n...
https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/milwaukee/news/2022/10/31/milwa...
Sig Sauer keeps claiming that it's weapon mishandling despite evidence showing it going off in the holster.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/06/investigates/sig-sau...
This is insane.
... another soldier, on his way to the refrigerator, tried to squeeze past him.
That’s when their gun holsters made contact.
“All I remember was the clanking” of the two holsters, the sergeant would later
tell an Army investigator, according to a military report, “and [the] gun shot.”
Is that standard policy for everyday carry?
I’d expect at least condition 2 - uncocked.
EDIT: Most modern pistols are operated this way without issues, and they don't go off without trigger being pulled.
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P320).
MCO 5500.6H (Arming of Law Enforcement and Security Personnel) requires Condition 1, which is magazine inserted, round in chamber, slide forward, safety on ... After reviewing the security camera video footage, the mishap investigator concluded that P1 did not mishandle the weapon at anytime while on duty at Gate 1 prior to the weapon discharging. From the evidence and statements from the persons involved, it is apparent that the weapon fired while on safe and secured in the holster.
(from https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/86/f5/d87374f8497a81db30e2463a..., linked to by the article)
the us military version of the p320 does have a thumb safety, and the claim is that they are going off without trigger pressure anyway, so who knows what the issue is
For example: Glock. You either are carrying in condition one, or condition three.
I’ve not handled or even seen one of these Sig’s yet, so I can’t really comment on them specifically.
> In 1991, Cooper wrote in Guns & Ammo magazine that "no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition."[27][28] In 1994, Cooper said "Los Angeles and Ho Chi Minh City have declared themselves sister cities. It makes sense: they are both Third World metropolises formerly occupied by Americans."[29]
not sure i would describe as 'lovely'
Modern striker-fired pistols like this vary a bit. As there isn’t a hammer to “cock” in the first place the same nomenclature doesn’t quite apply. That said, the firing pin is under tension in almost all of them.
Other pistols do not have this problem, just don't carry a Sig P320. There are lots of other great options for duty guns. Walther PDP would be my choice.
On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 18 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load cartridges into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger, unaware of the danger.[12]
The explosive effect of the muzzle blast caused enough blunt force trauma to fracture a quarter-sized piece of his skull and propel this into his brain, causing massive hemorrhaging.[6][13]
:(
Per TFA
"Investigators reviewed surveillance footage and determined that the security guard did not mishandle the weapon, and that it fired despite the gun’s safety being in place."
I'm no expert on guns and I also thought it strange when I first heard that some hand guns are intentionally made with no safety mechanism. Then my brother (who is an expert competitive shooter, instructor and range safety officer) explained the reasoning to me. IIRC, it was basically that despite all rules and training to the contrary, some people continue to occasionally handle guns in an unsafe manner with the (wildly incorrect) justification "it's okay, the safety's on."
Since safety mechanisms must be quick to deactivate and it's not always easy to visually determine the safety's state, such flawed logic substantially reduces the benefit of having a safety in the first place. Whereas the correct safety posture is to always treat any hand gun as potentially loaded and ready to fire, regardless of belief the safety mechanism is active. Apparently, with some people, training and safety protocols can't count counter human psychology, rendering the existence of a safety mechanism as another source of accidental error.
Once I thought about it, I can see how eliminating any possibility of mistaken belief in a safety mechanism being active might be preferred. Of course, this perspective assumes that weapons don't fire themselves accidentally, as reported here. (But, based on this article, apparently having a safety mechanism engaged didn't prevent accidental firing in these rare scenarios anyway.)
You might stumble, hook onto something, loose grip of a weapon and pull the trigger accidentially.
A safety is to prevent accidential triggering, not to prevent stupidity. For that you need laws that prohibit carrying loaded weapons without license and strict requirements and training for the ones who get such a permission.
Our police is training in virtual reality. I know of a case where an officer did not take the safety rules seriously in the vr-training who got reviewed and put on leave for a few days for his behaviour.
The actual reason is because pistols without explicit manual safeties have other safety features that make up for it (grip safety, trigger safety, firing pin disconnect etc.,) that provide the ability to carry the weapon safely in a way in which you don't need the time and muscle memory training to turn the manual safety off when you're in an adrenaline packed life or death scenario, you can just draw and pull the trigger.
There's a lot of personal preference in whether you consider the other safety features "enough" or whether you also want an explicit manual safety.
Not completely: