Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts | Hacker News Reader

Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

ifixit.com

58 pointsshawndumas106 comments

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date.

Except for gamers, this is no longer true.

Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace parts. Serviceability wasn't a goal, it was a workaround.

Funny, I got ten years out of a Mac SE/30, four years out of a PowerBook G4 (Lombard), and five years out of a white iBook G4. I also used a Mac IIcx for almost a year, ten years after its release. My unibody MacBook 13" was on track too, until I beered it.

I do not agree.

I guess the question then is how many parts did you have to replace for each of those computers? Did repairs/upgradeability factor into the long lifetimes?

Upgrades: The SE/30 started its life as an SE, so it got the 68030+SuperDrive upgrade, and we put a monitor card in the expansion slot (which I later replaced with a 10BaseT card). Upped the RAM from 1MB to an intimidating 8MB. I think I stuck some RAM in the Lombard and the iBook too.

Repairs: invoked AppleCare once, two years in, when my iBook took a nasty fall off a table.

Apple makes sealed machines with bizarro, non-standard components inside, but by no means are they treated as disposable.

What does suck about this from the consumer standpoint though is now when ordering if you want to upgrade a component from the base model you pay Apple prices to do so. For example Apple has historically overcharged for RAM and hard drive upgrades, so many users would order the base and then install upgrades on their own to save a bunch of money. Now you pay what Apple says you pay.

We might have done this but statistically few people did. As reliability and capacity have gone up while Apple's hardware markup has gone down, it's harder to justify the (power|size|weight|reliability) hit from making those parts field serviceable.

I completely agree. Also, if you ask to "normal" people, they will tell you that one of the reason they love Apple's computers is that if there's any problem, they can just go to the genius bar and solve it. Joe the manager or Susie the mom doesn't care if they can't replace the HD themselves, they want to know that if something happen they don't have to ship their computer somewhere to get it fixed.

There's Geek Squad, or your smart cousin, or a local computer shop for PCs.

All three of which typically provide inferior service with little expectation of a pleasant interaction or desired outcome.

But they give you viruses from their pirated support software.

Value: added!

Can't this be seen the other way around?

If a computer can last long, it is very useful to repair it / replace broker parts. If technology advances in such a way that new software needs a new computer, then it makes sense to buy a new computer instead of repairing the old one.

Unless by serviceability you mean being able to upgrade your computer.

Either way, I can see the benefits of trading that ability for a powerful but light/small machine.

I look at it this way: I buy a new car, and for whatever reason, I really want nice rims on it. If I want the rims package, I also have to buy the package with traction control and sat nav, and it's going to cost me $3,500.

It doesn't make any sense- I don't want those other things. I only want rims.

Now with computers- say I work with big data, so I really only need a computer with a boatload of RAM and a pretty meh processor. If this model takes off (which I seriously doubt it will) all the sudden, to get my 64GB of ram I need an 8 core processor and a top of the line graphics card? It doesn't make any sense.

Package deals inevitably force people to buy things they have no desire for, and I'm not even taking into consideration how they are intentionally making this near impossible to repair or replace pieces manually.

It's just really dumb, and I have a hard time believing anyone actually thinks any part of this is a decent idea.

Apple has been doing this for years already.

Want a 15" screen? You WILL be having an i7 then.

(which might account for why Apple's 'entry' level 15" is 3x the cost of its competitors (UK))

This. I think it's also worth noting that for a pro laptop, price is not a major issue, if you're trying to treat your laptop like a BYOB, you're doing it wrong. So:

(a) The RAM capacity is limited by the chipset anyway, and on "pro" machines, most people max out the RAM when they purchase or directly after. It's just that now you can't cheat and buy the RAM elsewhere to avoid an apple price premium.

(b) The SSD is replaceable, it's just not a standard connector. Obviously, 3rd party replacements will show up with a slightly higher cost than a bog standard SATA drive. I view this like the replacement of FW with tbolt, who cares?

(c) (Stock) RAM seldom goes bad before other components, and if it does, you treat it like the other components. They can unplug the SSD from your MBP and plug it into an identical one, swap complete. So we're not talking weeks for a replacement here -- just go to an Apple store. If you're not near an Apple store, you're probably not near a vendor of replacement RAM or SSD drives either.

One issue though: You had better keep that SSD backed up! 'cause if the machine goes south, you have no way of accessing your data unless someone comes out with a apple propretary card egd to sata adapter.

How is purchasing RAM identical to what Apple uses at market prices (rather than marked up by a factor of 2x to 5x) "cheating", exactly?

RAM and storage prices fall drastically with time while memory and storage requirements in software increase with time. If I plan to get 3-5 years of life out of my computer isn't it only logical to add on memory and storage when I need it, not all up front?

It looks like ssd is actually connected via standard sata. Only size and shape of the card is non-standard:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ...

> One issue though: You had better keep that SSD backed up! 'cause if the machine goes south, you have no way of accessing your data unless someone comes out with a apple propretary card egd to sata adapter.

Target Disk mode to the rescue [1]. Firewire not needed, thunderbolt is supported now (so you'll need a t-bolt enabled enclosure or drive).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Disk_Mode

I agree. I bought a white MacBook C2D in late 2006 that is still going strong, with the only things I've replaced being the battery, the HDD and the fan (pretty recently). It's still my primary machine which I use for Python and Java coding on a big retail application.

The fact that most parts are not user-replaceable has never been an issue as with the sole exception of those three parts everything else has lasted extremely well.

That Retina MacBook Pro is looking extremely tempting, however.

with the only things I've replaced being the battery, the HDD and the fan (pretty recently)

Errrm, you do realise you can't replace the battery in the Retina MacBook Pro right since it is glued in... probably also the fan and also the HDD without the special screwdriver for their special screws?

Nor was the fan on my current MacBook user-replaceable, I had it done by a Mac repair shop. Point is that for a portable low-end Mac that I've used heavily as my primary machine for five and a half years having only those three components fail is pretty decent.

If I can buy one of those new Retina MBPs and only have to pay to get the battery, flash drive and/or one of the fans repaired or replaced over a five and a half year period I'll be very satisfied with the purchase.

Yeah, fair enough. You're assuming that a Mac repair shop will un-glue the battery and not regard it as "oh well, you need a new one" like they do when say a TV part breaks these days (they may well be able to, I genuinely don't know). Problem may well be though the cost of doing this may be quite high once you are out of warranty (again, I don't know, but suspect replacing a faulty RAM chip will not be cheap).

That's also a fair point and I hope that doesn't happen. I guess we'll have to see, although the niche industry that has grown around even iPhone repairs suggests that companies may provide the service.

Unfortunately I don't see a way for any company to make machines like the Retina MBP in future without using custom and tough-to-replace components.

Yes, agree on all your points. I have a colleague who buys Macs purely because their build quality is so high and less likely to break. I'm sure Apple could have designed a new connector for the RAM, and not glued the battery in such a way - it is Apple after all, just look at the innovative products they have already come up with, this should be nothing! It will be interesting to read why they took the decisions they did.

Having said all that, it is a lovely machine, and if I had a much higher disposable income or I was a Mac user (never have used one!) then I would buy one... could install Windows vbut can't get over the lack of right click :D

Except may be I can't afford the heavy Apple price tag right now and I only want a 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM to get me started while I save up for a few more months for the other upgrades... not everyone can afford to go all out and go full spec.

Or maybe i think I'm only going to need the lower spec, but having bought my nice new Mac I find it really easy to use and I'm a bit of a genius at this movie editing thing but I could be more of a genius if it was a bit faster... but hang on, now I need to buy a whole new laptop for another £3000. But until my big hollywood blockbuster I can't afford it :(

Pretty sure you CAN replace the SSD later on, not unlike the MacBook Air models. You just need to purchase the correct SSD and connector for the model.

The RAM though, you're out of luck. An extra $200 on the build for 16gb is a bit of a ripoff considering that you can get 16gb laptop sticks from anywhere between $100-$150.

Yes, read that. Generally for me RAM is bigger factor these days than storage... with speeds from USB3 I can generally get by with external storage.

usually i agree, but in this case they are non-usual sticks. While i hardly imagine they cost apple 3x the price of usual stick, it is a factor

I'm sorry, but I downvoted you for being inaccurate. Northwood core Pentium 4 CPUs and motherboards using DDR SDRAM were released in 2002. Two years later, the latest and greatest were Prescott cores Pentium 4s, and DDR was in its last stages of being better than DDR2. It would have been a large performance difference, to be sure, but for most applications it would not have been a deal-breaker. You wouldn't have issues running well-maintained XP on your Northwood, which could arguably tide you over until the Windows 7 release in 2009 quite well.

More importantly, the considerable hardware upgrades still hold today - there is no shortage of people who update their MacBook Pros to the newest every year let alone every two years (and these aren't exactly gamers), the mid-2010 13" MacBook Pro still had a Core 2 Duo, none of the 2010 refresh MacBooks had Thunderbolt, only yesterday there was angst about the Mac Pro still using two-year-old CPUs, and the difference between an October 2010 old MacBook Air, the unupgradeable poster child, and a current one is considerable: the former has a Core 2 Duo, 4 GB of RAM if you upgraded during checkout, and a maximum of 128/256 GB hard drive on the 11"/13" respectively. Stepping back to the mid-2009 revision, which you would have had to order in June 2010, the difference is even larger.

I am not sure how to reconcile my general agreement with what you are saying with my real life observation of how rarely I see people with Apple hardware older than 2, maybe 3, years old.

To put it in perspective, though, most of Apple's customers only started buying their hardware in the last two years and rarely purchased older models.

Do you have any references for that? That sounds rather weird since I know in university back in 2006/2007 probably about 90% of the student population had macs. Coffee shops have similarly been dominated by them for at least 5 years now.

Another factor of this is that Apple has a global servicing network in its Apple stores that is kinda astounding. With a sony laptop, you would have to mail it off to their national service center, wait a few weeks and get it mailed back to you for warranty repair.[1]

The same repair can often be accomplished in an Apple store very quickly.

For example. I bought a Macbook Pro in the USA. I was in the UK and had a problem. I went to the UK apple store, and they fixed it- replacing parts-- in 30 minutes. It doesn't matter that I bought the machine in another country (something that would be a hassle with other manufacturers) and I didn't have to send it off-- I was without my computer for all of the time it took to eat lunch, not a couple weeks.

Apple has radically changed the service/support situation for their machines, and thus they are designing machines to be highly serviceable by APPLE, not by users. These aren't made to be modded, but for apple to be able to quickly service.

I think iFixit is looking at these machines in the context of other players in the industry. You have to service your Dell laptop because getting service from Dell may well be a pain in the butt or simply not possible. That's not the case with Apple-- provided there's an Apple store reasonably close (and if not ,they have pretty efficient mail in service.)

My experiences with PC makers, with consumer electronics makers of all types, and even big companies like Intel have never been anywhere close to this level of service and convenience in the service.

[1] Between me and my cofounders we've had this experience with Sony, Dell and HP. The results we got with Apple astounded one of my cofounders because their experience was that things just didn't work that way-- and in their experience it took several multi-week trips to the repair shop to get their name brand PC repaired, leaving them effectively without a computer for months-- because the maker saved money by outsourcing repair to some random third party repair agency. Apple gets things right by owning the store that does the repairs and can impose quality checks on them.

Do you have Applecare? Or is this just service that you have gotten?

FWIW, I didn't have applecare, bought a used macbook from craigslist, then had the case crack in the UK. Apple store on Regent Street (IIRC) fixed it in about 3 hours - they had to hunt for a US-style keyboard part. No applecare, no major hassle. I will say initially they told me to drop it off and I'd have it back in 3-5 days. I said that was unacceptable, then they said 'leave it here and we'll call you'. Got a call 3 hours later.

I had my UK MacBook with a cracked case repaired twice now, once while in the US. I did have to wait a few days that time, but I think it's a little more reasonable for US keyboards to be in stock in the flagship London store, vs UK keyboards available in a random corner of Arizona.

Both times, it's been a much better experience than getting other equipment repaired/replaced.

It's not a global service network. You don't even have to go to the 'third world' with unreliable electricity to see that - there are no official Apple Stores in Poland [1] or Trinidad and Tobago [2], off the top of my head. Also, getting warranty service in TT is much easier with a Dell than with an Apple.

[1] http://www.apple.com/pl/buy/locator/map.html?tySearch=1&... - one "Premium Reseller" in a metropolitan area of about a million people. Redoing the search ("Szukaj" button) shows a number of general electronics stores carrying some products

[2] http://www.apple.com/lae/buy/locator/index.php?ctry=TT - speaks for itself really

There are parts of the US where you have to travel several hours to get to an Apple Store.

"I think iFixit is looking at these machines in the context of other players in the industry."

I think iFixit might also have a conflict of interest in that it sells repair parts for Apple equipment...

This is going to be a trend with Apple.

They have a good thing going with the iPhone and iPad devices which are both non-upgradeable: consumers are compelled to buy a new device every couple of years or so.

It's pretty clear they're getting rid of the Mac Pro, which is highly configurable (with memory, storage and graphics cards) and thus has a much longer life span.

So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to buy a new laptop every 2 years to have a machine that is relevant?

I thought they confirmed there's going to be a new Mac Pro next year?

There will be, but, even if there wasn't, a Hackintosh might be an option for a professional-grade desktop.

Your answer to "Apple doesn't make a decent desktop computer" is "hack OS X's DRM to install it on unlocked hardware"?

There is no DRM on OS X. The only issue with Hackintoshes is drivers and hardware support.

And terms of service

https://www.pcworld.com/article/182218/apple_wins_court_vict...

  A federal judge has dealt a crushing blow to Mac clone 
  maker Psystar by ruling that the Florida company violated 
  Apple's copyright as well as the Digital Millennium 
  Copyright Act (DMCA) when it installed Apple's operating 
  system on Intel-based computers.

Erm, thought all the new Macs were Intel based now?

Note the year. Apple had only recently switched to Intel.

yes, i did note the year, but how is that relevant to here and now? Since they are intel based now, surely that ruling is m00t?

Thanks for the downvote, shame I can't repay the favour.

apple transition to intel processors in 2006. article is written in 2009.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Nonsense. Of course there is DRM, it's just been thoroughly defeated by the Hackintosh community. You can't install OS X on non-Apple hardware without a hacked install disc or a hacked boot disk.

Regardless, you are missing the point. I surely wouldn't install an unsupported and unlicensed OS on any of the PCs in my business.

Adapting to an unsupported BIOS is not remotely "defeating DRM". Apple just doesn't support other firmware -- it doesn't include features deliberately meant to defeat unlicensed installs (like Windows) or any cloning (like iOS).

There's a specific check to see if it's running on an Apple system and the installer halts if it detects that it is not. It does not merely "lack support" for other systems, they are deliberately not supported. Apple (I think wisely) have not wasted their time on complicated license validation schemes, but that doesn't really change anything. As with Windows activation, it would eventually be defeated anyway.

Regardless, it's obviously unsupported, strongly discouraged by Apple, and at least one US court has found it to be illegal.

I'm not arguing that it's legal, or that Apple is thrilled with it. But DRM implies something pretty specific and (in theory) harder to defeat than an "if" statement.

I disagree.

As opposed to moving to Windows? Not really an option.

> They have a good thing going with the iPhone and iPad devices which are both non-upgradeable: consumers are compelled to buy a new device every couple of years or so.

This is no different than any other phone, it has nothing to do with the upgradability (which arguably is better for Apple than other phones since Android's OS upgrade path is slow at best and absent on a lot of devices).

Phones get upgraded every couple of years because the technology is changing so quickly that there are large differences between the models and with carrier subsidies the upgrade cost is minimal. If the iPhone had a removable battery or a SD slot it wouldn't cause people not to upgrade to the next model.

The perceived rate of change in phones has been decreasing for a while. After you have a multi megapixel camera, can show HD video, and do Doom 3 or better 3d graphics the hardware bumps are less noticeable.

Honestly, broken hardware and decreased battery life drives a lot of phone upgrades among my friends and coworkers.

I don't know... Samsung S3 had 9 million pre-orders. I know a lot of people upgrading due to 1) the marketing hype surrounding the new tech 2) in the UK at least your carrier will generally give you an upgrade ever 18-24 months (cost dependant on level of service)

LTE and NFC are two biggies. The chipsets in general are getting better in terms of both performance and power usage. Ditto for displays.

If you want a new battery in your iPhone, it's $79 away from Apple and cheaper not from Apple. No need to upgrade.

Well, I tend to think the iPhone upgrade cycle is maliciously artificial. My iPhone 3G used to run very well on iOS 3, and utterly fails on iOS 4. I can't help but think that's intentional.

"So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to buy a new laptop every 2 years to have a machine that is relevant?"

I have a 2nd gen 13" Air that I got in late '10. Seeing that the 2 year mark will be upon it and it's still supported by Mountain Lion. I have a late '07 Mac Pro that is not supported.

I'm sort of in the middle of this. On one hand, I'd love to keep using my Pro because it still works fine (and I'm one of those types that get's pissed when the machine is slow). I've had to upgrade to ssd, put an ATI 4870 in it, filled it with 16GB ram, still has stock 2x2 3ghz Xeon's. But this has been my main development machine for years and has made me a good amount of money over the years, so I see the upgrades and very reasonable. I still think I could run Mountain Lion fine, but there's the whole 32-bit EFI thing that Apple has handcuffed it with. So this is the downside for me.

On the other hand, I'm not against modernizing everything. I think that Apple does not have to support years of legacy hardware like Microsoft does is a good thing. We can always be assured of the latest and greatest. If I could get min 2-4 years out of a laptop, that would be good for me.

As for Apple locking everything down? I see why they do it - it's all about design. Why include a thicker ram slot(s) when you can just solder it on the board and reduce your profile, or give you better space. We're going to see more and more custom from them, trending away from using off the shelf parts that everyone else will have to use. This will give them a competitive differentiator, which it already does with their unibody laptops.

However, the obvious downside (mostly for geeks/power users) is that we can't buy the 8gb ram option now for less, and then upgrade later. So we're forced into that decision quandary of buy for less now with not what we really want, or pay through the nose up front, grumble a bit, then go on our merry way. The latter is usually where I fall in.

Because all those Nokias and Zunes are really user upgradeable and serviceable right?

God I am sick of this idiotic canard.

I can at least perform trivial tasks on them, like replacing batteries and storage.

Storage is a model by model issue. Some models of phones and music players have SD slots and some don't.

Do you know how many times I've needed/wanted to replace the storage on my iPhones? Zero.

Do you know how many times I've needed/wanted to replace the battery on my iPhones or MacBook Pro? Zero.

Sure, if the batteries are crap, or the device comes with insufficient storage from the manufacturer, then those are important features because you have to correct a defect in the product.

Regardless, if that capability is an important feature to you; don't buy Apple products. It's pretty simple. Getting into a righteous rage on the internet hasn't changed the way Apple designs their products for the past 5 years, what makes you think it's going to suddenly start working?

AFAIK, Nokia and Microsoft don't make laptops. Portable music players are comparatively cheap and disposable in comparison to a £3000 laptop.

Read the post I was responding to. He was talking about iPhones and iPods.

Regardless, if you care about being able to change the RAM, HDD and battery don't buy a MBP. It's pretty simple.

True that, you pays your money you makes your choice.

Thins is, at a few hundred pounds the iPod and iPad are almost disposable, but at a few thousand an MBP is not. I actually was considering buying one of the "lower end" MBP, but because of this it is a deal breaker.

(ps. I don't own an iPad because the memory is not upgradeable or an iPhone because I cannot carry around a spare battery - I travel around a fair bit so these are important factors to me)

So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to buy a new laptop every 2 years to have a machine that is relevant?

Or Apple's simply trying to make machines that are thin, light, power efficient, sturdy, and reliable. A user-servicable or upgradable machine does not necessarily lend itself to all of those traits.

And is a non-upgradable machine that's two years old really irrelevant? That machine could still run Mountain Lion, and could still run all of the apps available on the App Store. It could still play Diablo 3. It could still surf the web.

Just because a machine cannot be upgraded to the latest CPUs or graphics cards does not make it irrelevant. And the vast majority of users are often fine with the amount of RAM which shipped in their machines.

Quite simply, I posit that Apple could not build a machine like the Retina MacBook Pro if they relied on user-upgradable, off-the-shelf parts. It would necessarily be bigger and heavier, and there's a good chance it'd be less sturdy. It wouldn't be a machine that lives up to Apple's standards.

In terms of aesthetics, form, weight, efficiency, and so on, there are obviously huge benefits to building computers that are not upgradeable or user-serviceable.

It's important to remember, though, that serviceability/upgradeability is not just a matter of satisfying the urge to tinker. Serviceability makes it much more likely that old hardware can be reused and repurposed for years beyond its putative obsolescence date. I'd hate to think that a computer only has a few years of useful life before it's garbage.

Personally I don't really care. I recognize this going in, and I recognize that there are many many other hardware options if I want to unscrew my laptop and dork about with the internals.

For me, I travel around a lot. Physical durability and integrity of the hardware, in the smallest possible form factor, is important to me. You don't often get expansion/flexibility to go along with svelte and rugged.

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before laptops become one giant COB (chip-on-board) manufacturing process where the whole "laptop" is a 10mmx10mmx1mm chip glued to the back of an LCD panel with some battery wrapped around it. And I'll buy one.

I believe what you've just described is an iPad

I can't get too worked up by user serviceablility, or lack thereof.

"My SSD died the other day. I tried to open it up and replace one of the flash chips, but they deliberately made it impossible for me to service. I had to buy an entire new drive!"

The problem is more in the "One of my ram chips went bad, so I had to replace the logic board."

Well, you should have it under warranty in which case it's not your problem. And if it's not under warranty - it's time to buy a new one anyway! ;)

Not sure why you're being downvoted since this is the exact policy Apple is instituting in this case. Sorry about that.

Because it's a stupid view of the world. What if you bought a BMW and they said "sorry, if you want to replace those tyres or wiper blades then you need to bring it in to BMW, even though we don't actually make any of thee parts ourselves".

(Yes, I understand these are serviceable parts, replace above with car battery if you like...)

I'm not sure how you meant to map this onto a situation of replacing the motherboard because a RAM chip died. You don't have to replace the whole engine if your car battery dies, even in a BMW, regardless of warranty status.

You don't have to replace the whole engine if your car battery dies, even in a BMW, regardless of warranty status.

Yes, that was my whole point... I don't have to replace the engine because the battery isn't glued to it. So I may have to remove a few nuts and bolts and it may not be easily accessible, but they are replaceable.

If someone told me that I should replace my car because the warranty had run out, and besides there is now a more powerful version out I'd probably call them mad!

I take it you won't be buying this product then? I don't support Apple's policy in this case, but I just won't buy it so I don't really care how mad it is. m_eiman's description of Apple's policy was accurate, and I voiced my support.

Ahh fair enough, I thought you were in support of the general principle. Agree it is Apple's policy, i presume there was meant to be a /sarc tagt in there some where :)

I was considering buying it, but I am not an Apple user and would have just installed Windows on it. BUT I can't afford to pay up front for things I may or may not use either.

I have refused to buy Apple for a number of years, because of things like not having a removable battery (which a lot of phones are doing now), no memory upgrade slot and biggest of all - iTunes!!!.I like carrying a spare battery cos it is not always possible to be by a plug. I like being able upgrade my storage because now 16gb isn't enough (and 32gb is much cheaper).

But better to be informed about this kind of thing before purchase!

I'm waiting for someone in the UK to invoke the 6 year warranty rule, since obviously if the battery is glued in and the RAM soldered in it's gonna last forever right!

http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/03/tv-warranty.html

There is a difference between upgrading a major component like a HDD -> SSD or increasing the amount of RAM and replacing a sub-component of SSD.

In addition Apple has historically charged 2-3x for things like RAM upgrades then you would get elsewhere.

Isn't it obvious that your example is different than "My $3000 MacBook Pro's SSD died the other day. I tried to open it up and replace the SSD, but they deliberately made it impossible for me to service. I had to buy an entire new computer!"

Sure, you can pull out a microscope and complain about how you can't fix your SMD components, but the vast majority of consumer (Apple, even!) laptops have previously been very easy to upgrade or repair and now that's different. SSD/hard disks have always been hard and there isn't an expectation that they are user serviceable.

Laptops have a checkered history in this regard: the only thing which was consistently easy in Apple laptops was the memory. Drives ranged from trivial to involved depending on the model - I have the torx drivers to prove it.

Except for the early WiFi era's AirPort cards, that's been it - and there's something like an order of magnitude step decrease for each one in my experience. A few people upgrade RAM and even fewer change the drive; everyone appreciates better battery life and lighter systems.

The SSD is a separate part that can be removed. In the future (within a year, before then Applecare will take care of defects) I am expecting manufacturers to have third-party SSD's available that will work in the new MacBook Pro's.

Correct. It seems faulty RAM will be the real trouble beyond that first year, as it's soldered to the board.

I'd be annoyed if my HD or RAM started showing signs of failure and I had to take it into a service center and have it mailed to a facility somewhere to fix it.

What do they mean 'virtually non-upgradable'? It's actually non-upgradable!

Annoying that I can't upgrade the RAM though, that's the only part I've changed in recent years - because it's so much cheaper DIY.

Because it is upgradable. You just have to have the expertise to do it. Soldering a SMD component, while not exactly something that everyone can do, is indeed doable.

Disclaimer: I can solder some SMD chips...

OWC has SSD upgrades for the 2011 MBAs (I bought one the day before the announcement–I should have waited until suddenly it became an obsolescent part) and I suspect they will develop the same for the new flat flash sticks. They also have a USB/fw/esata carrier for the old drive.

It's all memory anyway. Registers, cpu cache, ram, "hard" drive, etc. I'm happy any time more memory gets closer to the CPU.

Blogspam.

Article is just a summary of http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ...

But maybe the blogspam had a stronger server; the link being used now (the same you provided) is down and Google Cache doesn't seem to have it.

Link to blogspam: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/retina-macbook-pro-full...

Anyone who's been around long enough or has read Jobs' biography has known this to be the modus operandi (and/or "vision") of Apple since, well, Apple was founded. One of the first real company disagreements between Woz and Jobs was the inclusion of expansion slots in the II. They WANT it not to be serviceable; they always have.

How many upgrades does average consumer make on their MacBook Pro? I'd argue it's ~0.

RAM upgrades are fairly common. Most of my friends, even the non-technical ones, have upgraded the RAM in their macbook pros.

When I worked at Geeksquad we used to get people in all the time for RAM upgrades ($29 labor charge).

I'm still using an early 2008 macbook pro thanks to a cheap RAM upgrade.

Additionally there is a huge secondary market for macbook pros. Plenty of people help pay for their new $2k+ computer by selling their old one. That won't work if it's completely obsolete in 3 years.

Virtually all people I know that have MacBook Pro's upgraded the memory. Some replaced hard disks by SSDs.

Upgrading memory is especially attractive, since it's so much cheaper to buy it practically anywhere else then Apple.

I know lots of folks who've added RAM and who've swapped out the spinning drive for an SSD. Maybe it's more of a "power user" thing, but here you are on Hacker News.

This. And all the other same replies below.

My manager just "upgraded" his old Mac by installing an SSD and gave it to his wife to use. Said it prolonged the life for another few years.

I just upgraded RAM and HDD -> SSD on a friends computer. He had no clue what I was doing, but his computer ran "better than new". All he does it surf the web, use Outlook for email, write Word/Excel docs. Extended life for another few years for him. He certainly doesn't need a new computer (which is was about to go buy). If users themselves can't or don't know how to upgrade, they may well know someone who can. Or some small local indie shop who has the skills.

On my 2010 Macbook Pro I upgraded the ram and replaced the rather horrible 5200rpm disk with an SSD. I've upgraded the ram on every Macbook i bought (3), since the default amount is always insufficient and apple-supplied memory was overpriced.

Average consumer I don't know, but I upgrade RAM and disks on my MacBook Pros. Disks get slow and memory gets cheaper.

The "talking computer" text on their server load error page put a smile on my face. I love it.

The Retina MBP seems more like the "Macbook Air Pro." (Which is cool...)

Has the problem with the high defect rate of SSDs been resolved? Not to long ago, I remember reading of many defects after about 1 year of usage. A SSD defect would now effectively brick the whole MacBook Pro.

It never existed for the Apple branded SSDs - the people who reported that were people who bought the cheapest SSDs and used them with non-SSD-aware filesystems which overwrote the same blocks repeatedly.

SSDs with smarter controllers and filesystems which don't abuse the disk make a huge difference. Apple controls all of these so they should have a much better idea of the reliability factor - and even if you pay for repairs, there's a high risk that an early failure will make you less likely to buy from them next time.

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