Japanese population sees greatest fall amid record foreigner growth and numbers
asahi.com
asahi.com
What are HN's thoughts on what happens when all populations start trending older and the use of immigrants to stop the decline runs out of steam?
Do the elderly enslave the local young populace to keep production moving?
Does the state try to incentivize the young to have children by offering state care for the new children?
Does childrearing become a function of the state?
Does the world collapse similar to the bronze age collapse and having children again becomes useful for their labor and their ability to take care of the elderly once the concept of 401ks and pensions disappear?
Thoughts? Different ideas?
From what I have read/listened-to, efforts by governments to incentive increased birthrates have little effect. This comes from data across different countries like Denmark/Norway & the USA.
Bronze Age collapse seems a little bit much ;D.
My bet is that the culture changes to adapt to the higher proportion of non-working age people. So more younger and older generations will move back in with each other in order to save on the biggest household expense (the house itself) and more welfare is directed towards caring for old people in tandem with the market responding by supplying more private care.
Europeans made it through ~1/3 of the population dying from The Plague, we'll make it through this _much_ less catastrophic demographic change.
Depends on the country, South Korea (if current trends continue) is looking at an 60-80% shrink in a few generations.
Houses will be cheap when there are less people. See akiya houses in Japan: https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/unpacking-akiya-th...
We talking paying $24,000/child/year (equivalent in Socal) cash? Or some $4,000/child (once) pittance bonus plus a couple months extra time off at 60% pay? There isn't any gas left in the home-economy tank after a century of inflation and feminism, which is why they're globalizing labor to make up the shortfall! One cow breed is too expensive, fickle, and dangerously aggressive if pushed too hard, so it's in with a more cost effective labore... err I mean breed of cow.
Now we get to say: look at all this surplus old-age wisdom that we are about to get. In a culture which stows away the old and has no appreciation for wisdom.
* As the population ages, the elderly will pass laws and policies that favor themselves at the expense of the younger. Social services will become more and more of a burden on wage earners - even to the point of unsustainability (as long as those in power as a "ruling" block get what they believe they are owed.)
* As the elder population gradually loses their political power, the younger leaders will pass laws and policies that favor themselves at the expense of the elder. Social services will become less and less meaningful - even to the point of neglect and abject poverty for those who need it (as long as those in power as a "ruling" block get what they believe they are owed.)
Those two paths are not necessarily divergent and are quite likely sequential.
It is simply impossible for that to work without some amazing breakthroughs in robotics and AI that will enable outsourcing of healthcare and elderly care. And that's just the ensuring the retirees don't die in the streets, what about everyone and everything else? What happens to the South Korean industries as they are today when their labour pool shrinks a few orders of magnitude?
The non-Japanese segment of the population hit its highest level yet, but the birthrate continued to slow and areas such as the northeastern prefectures of Tohoku suffered heavy losses. Only Tokyo eked out an increase in population.
As of Jan. 1, 2024, the total population was 121,561,801, according to data released by the internal affairs ministry on July 24. The figures are taken from the government’s basic resident register.
The annual shrinkage was the greatest fall since the survey began in 1968.
The population shrank in the three major metropolitan areas--Tokyo, Kansai and Nagoya--although the city of Tokyo saw an increase for the first time in three years, driven by people moving to the capital from elsewhere in Japan.
Meanwhile, the population of foreign nationals living in Japan increased by 329,535 to 3,323,374. The figure exceeded 3 million for the first time since such data became available in 2013.
Of course, Japan had an entire generation in the 90s that never got a good job and they would be in their peak years now and should be having children, but can't, so they aren't and the nation wonders why? The USA will experience the same thing because the problems of 2007 never got fixed.
That being said, it does come with it's own share of “foreigners not allowed or welcome” experiences. There’s also racial undertones to those experiences, where some set of people will have worse experience than others.
The concrete daily-life answer is, I've virtually always found it an incredibly welcoming place. With very few occasional bits of garden-variety discrimination ("oh sorry this apartment isn't available for rent to foreigners"). But individuals are nearly always nice - obviously polite, but usually nice as well. And society in general is far more accommodating to foreigners than one might expect a society to be to ~2% of its population (putting English on road signs and so forth).
But over the years I've noticed that lots of people online are super confident that Japan is deeply racist, which is wildly at odds with my experiences here, so I've thought a lot about where that comes from. And personally my view is that racism, as the term is generally used, isn't a meaningful thing to talk about with respect to Japan. The Japanese (broadly, oversimplifying) don't see the world in terms of race - they divide the world into Japanese and non-Japanese, and things like skin color or nationality are very distant lesser concerns. And in general, they don't at all see Japanese things as better than non - Japan is mostly fascinated with foreign things, and in many contexts looks up to them as superior to local ways.
But Japan does always, always see non-Japanese things as other, and separate. And as such people are often quick to, say, attribute differences of opinion to "oh I guess that's how foreigners see this, but I'm Japanese so I see it differently", and such. And when one is on the receiving end of that, and constantly treated as separate, it can feel like racism (though I think it's misleading to model it that way).
Oh, last thing to add is that regardless of how they see or treat foreigners, the median Japanese person nearly always harbors some level of dread at the thought of talking to a foreigner, since that means using English. ~Every Japanese adult took 6-10 years of English in school, and in most cases they are almost entirely unable to use it in conversation for various reasons, so many people here view using English the way I'd feel about suddenly being given a quiz in my worst subject from high school. As such, tourists who go around using English may mistake people's reactions for standoffishness or hostility - but if you live here and learn even the most absolute basic Japanese, you find everyone melts and things go fine.
What would you say the governments posture toward easing immigration looks like?
Real racism in Japan is about Chinese and Koreans. Non-Asians make up less than 1% and just aren’t relevant, e.g. racist parties never talk about them in speaker announcements from busses.