Proton Wallet – a safer way to hold Bitcoin | Hacker News Reader

Proton Wallet – a safer way to hold Bitcoin

proton.me

44 pointsBafS36 comments

This and their AI thing they released a week orso ago, makes me considering another Email Provider. Not sure which one yet... They invested time, effort, and money in hype industries. No thanks. They could have used that time to make their core products (email, calendar, address book) better. My money went to the wrong things. :-(

Fastmail is a good choice, they just do the one thing.

No end to end encryption. No thanks.

Plus as an Australian company the government can backdoor it without anyone legally being able to speak about it.

They also got rid of most of their US based unionized employees recently.

https://union.place/@fastmailunited/112672408714595554

That’s a plus for some of us - but I’ll stick with Proton.

How would you "end to end encrypt" an email going from Super Secure Provider A to Outlook or Gmail? The encryption stops the millisecond it leaves Provider A's servers.

With Proton Mail you can send password-protected emails too: https://proton.me/support/open-password-protected-emails

Correction: you can send links to a website where the recipient can see the text you wrote using a password.

Nothing about that is "email" anymore. The same method can be used to make "password protected SMS" for example. Just send a link to a website and a password. Encryption!

What we need is actual public key encryption/signing support on mail services, but that's not going to happen ever.

Reminds me of Keybase before they were bought out. Shame too. Keybase was really good. I wish they had open sourced it when Zoom bought them out as a part of the buyout deal.

I’m happy with Proton products personally but I see so many feature requests from users sitting for years on their core products. If anything I feel like the effort that goes into this instead could hurt Proton by branding them as “a crypto company”.

We most certainly are not a crypto company. We don't run a crypto exchange, didn't create a cryptocurrency, and don't speculate in crypto. We're an encryption company, but don't lump that in with crypto.

Care to explain how you ignored the results of your survey where most users wanted more email or calendar features and you decided to work on an AI assistant that more than 66% of your user base didn't ask for?

I really like to know this as well. What lack of transparancy indeed.

They clearly already had the features mostly done when they made the survey. I recall the questions being extremely leading to get people to say they would like to use a privacy first AI or whatever. After I took it I immediately told people it was clear they were about to announce some AI bloat.

You surely are turning into one which as a long time paying user, this is a real shame that you're putting most of your loyal users under the bus.

One Bitcoin wallet among a suite of privacy offers doesn't mean they are turning into one and I disagree they are throwing most of their loyal users under the bus.

You ever heard of the word "enshittification"? I'm sure you have.

This is what they're on the road to. AI last week, crypto this week. Maybe NFT next week?

In all seriousness, this has the potential in killing their brand image as a viable alternative to Big Tech and considering there's not much email alternatives aside from self hosting (which is a nightmare in its own right), this is worrying.

One is an AI feature that you have to opt-in to, and includes the option to run locally.

The other is an optional self-custody wallet. They’re not an exchange and your wallet/Funds aren’t locked in with them.

They’re offering alternatives to big tech solutions which is kind of what they do.

The text of the blog post is interesting. Bitcoin does not offer privacy. But the post is written using bitcoin maximalist phrases, not just crypto in general.

So who's the huge HODLer in the company?

I had a big problem with them once I signed up and they shoved their ads down my inbox. Then they created a survey asking what their users would like to see in Proton, and while a majority voted for calendar and email features, they made the AI section biased: you either are interested in AI, never heard of it or won't use but are interested. They purposedly didn't include an option "heard of AI but won't use it" because they know most of their users don't like it.

And now they're launching an AI assistant. How ethical they are proving to be. The company that portrayed itself as privacy-first is showing its true face.

I'm honestly glad I am not (no longer) seemingly the only one thinking this. When I read the reactions to Scribe, I was a bit surprised there wasn't much skepticism/concern about that.

While I applaud their transition to being a Non-Profit/Foundation, the "tech fad chasing" of the last weeks definitely concerns me about Proton, looking at the backlog of "common sense" additions and even the lack of proper Linux support.

While it will be fine for most users, I'm more leaning to skepticism regarding generative AI and (pushing) crypto by a corporation. The former being due to copyright abuse, with the latter being a weird thing to push for in the current age where usages of blockchain are met with skepticism instead of hope.

I'd recommend looking into Tuta (formerly known as Tutanota). They recently got interviewed by Techlore indicating they wanna release "Tuta Drive". Seems to become a proper replacement for Proton, if you don't care about VPNs, crypto wallets or Cloud password storage.

All in all, Proton's features can be replaced by other services. Mullvad's well known for their straight forward "gold standard" VPN. Crypto wallets can best be held locally. Password storage got Cloud (Bitwarden) or local (KeePass and its derivatives in clients) options. Only "hurting" missed feature is Proton Docs, which launched not too long ago and is also missing quite a few features. Self-hosting or getting a service to host NextCloud is an option, however, but that'll eat into costs.

So, you all have decided to spend time and money on _this_ instead of working on any one of 1000s of useful features that are missing from your existing products like, for example, making Proton Pass easier to use (e.g. more/better browser integration or Android activity C&P).

Crypto-anything in 2024 is a red flag and, as a long-time customer, makes me seriously question your priorities and long-term, strategic thinking.

Is Bitcoin still thing outside of habitual gambling circles? I thought only the doomsday cult that is waiting to get rich after a global economic meltdown cared for BTC in 2024.

Seriously. Someone sent me a link to this announcement earlier and my first thought was, _what year is it_?

I'm a long-time Proton customer and (until now) advocate and I have no idea who this is for or why it's a priority. It gives me serious pause about their ability to read the room and take the results of user feedback into account.

Did you miss the Bitcoin ETFs going live in the US earlier this year? With $7.6 billion on the first day of trading, they hit the record for the highest volume in the history of ETFs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/28/bitcoin-etfs-see-record-high...

It's the hardest asset mankind has ever seen. Nothing else is as optimised for storing large quantities of value for long periods of time.

If you have an idea for how it could be optimised further or beaten by something else, I'd be very interested to hear.

So cool to see it follows Proton's approach to making overwhelming tech easy to use. Referring especially to the Bitcoin via email feature which I've never seen before.

Even in this cost of living crisis, over the last six months I've been ever so slowly been putting money aside by not dining out, cancelled my streaming services, cutting down on utility usage (heating) and even started collecting aluminium cans to scrape together the USD191.76 I have due on 26th August for 2 years of service. I don't make the big bucks like everyone here but to me my privacy is worth every cent and sacrifice.

I would like to try this Proton Wallet out but don't have the liquidity right now to buy bitcoin but I wish them the best of luck.

Two side notes: I'd pay more to access this and their Scribe offering (yes, I got their wayward email blast and apology on it) but what would a single guy do with six accounts on their Visionary tier?

I also think Proton could acquire Kagi and it would a perfect fit.

Hi Andrew - This is Irina, I lead brand comms for our community at Proton. Your commitment to protecting your privacy is laudable and heartwarming.

We would love to reward your support and honesty. Please drop us an email at community@proton.me for details.

Good morning Irina,

I sent an email to that address last night with your name in the subject line. Thank you.

In 2024, seeing someone promote cryptocurrency for its original purpose with a straight face is jarring. After so many years of 99.9999999% scammers and pumping speculators.

And if you use cryptocurrency for its original purpose today, you're dealing with a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" much worse than the government fiat currency that was originally criticized.

In 2024, I don't use crYpTo, but I use bitcoin to store my wealth without it being stolen by the banking system via supply inflation.

Awesome product, glad to pay for something I use every day, the wallet will simplify my life

Once again proud of having chosen Proton and supporting them with my paid plan.

Same here.

I’m not using their calendar app, but the email and drive features work wonderfully on all my Apple devices.

Likewise. Especially fond of their VPN, calendar and Simplelogin services. Total game changer for me.

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