Comment by jimt1234 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jimt1234 | Hacker News Reader

Story time: About 6 years ago a close friend with years of software experience was bored with her job and decided to look for another. She received plenty of solid job offers, all with excellent pay, but one of them stood out. It was a company that made back-end software for credit unions. Not sexy work, but what stood out to my friend was the how genuine the people she talked to during the "interview" process seemed. They asked about her life experience more than her work experience. When she met with execs they never even talked about actual work. She said they were very upfront about the fact that they couldn't compete with "the big guys" on pay, but they take their supportive company culture very seriously - the average length-of-employment was over 10 years. She said they offered her access to the office, where she could freely "interview" anyone rando she wanted about the company. She did, and everyone she talked to raved about working there.

She decided to accept the offer from the not-sexy credit union software company, knowing she could've earned at least 30% more elsewhere. She kept using the word "genuine" when she talked about the people she met during the "interview" process, and that's what attracted her.

Well, about 2 years after accepting the offer she was diagnosed with breast cancer. (tl;dr = dealing with cancer sucks. constant doctor appointments. chemo treatments. pain. vomiting. life/death uncertainty. and so on.) She said her company was unbelievable during her cancer battle. She didn't work for almost a year (her bosses wouldn't let her), and they never even talked about sick leave or FMLA or disability - nothing. They just kept her on the payroll like normal, for almost a full year! She said her bosses would call all the time, asking about the latest test results, how she was feeling, did she need anything, etc. And, to her surprise, after about 2 years of treatments, almost the entire company showed up to watch her ring the bell.

Moral of the story: Money is great, but it's really not everything.

This reads like a company from the fantasy world!

Or maybe just how people turn out to be when they're not constantly competing in a cutthroat environment.

I'm guessing working for a credit union is a textbook example of a stable company.

I work at a similar company. You won't find it if you chase the money/prestige.

Yeah I agree. Such a company in Canda is going to pay way below market rate, maybe 60-80k and that's not feasible for me :/

It would be nice if the pay is around 120k.

A lot of european companies are like this (in the wealthier countries at least). Even offices of multinationals tend to be like this. Work/Life balance is taken very seriously.

Yeah. My European colleagues always have super long vacations during the summer so we all envy them :D Plus the pay is not bad comparing to Canadian.

Great story. With most interviews nowadays happening on-line, how can you recognize companies such as your friend's?

I’m Danish so this might not apply to an American context, or even a non-Danish context. I’ve been on the hiring side of things a few times, and I’ve worked in a lot of different organisations, and what I personally look for these days is companies which let you interview them as much as they interview you. This shows that they are looking for someone to be the right fit and that they know this process goes two ways.

I had an offer recently where it was online, it had gone through one of those ridiculous LinkedIn recruiters and it had been completely “missold” (not sure what the English word for misleading a “sale” is) to me. I figured this out after about 5 minutes of me asking them questions about their place and the work they wanted me to do, at which point I flat out said something along the lines of “I think I’m the wrong fit” to which they agreed, but they wanted to offer me another type of job in architecture and management. I didn’t want that, but the process of them being very open to me interviewing them helped us both out immensely in not picking each other.

It’s obviously only something you can really engage in if you don’t “need-need” a job.

> how can you recognize companies such as your friend's

The signs I've picked up so far:

  - Privately owned by the founders (engineers)
  - A sense of carefulness when hiring
  - Few employees quit the company at all
  - Either entirely engineer-run or a few soft-skilled workers with high EQ and social status

When the founders are a family, things get a little weird, because the family weirdo gets tolerated.

As others have said:

- The people you speak with have been at the company for a long time

- The fairness and quality of the interview process (especially w.r.t. the tech screen)

If multiple people you speak with have been with the company for more than 10 years, it's a great sign. And if the interview is really high quality and fair (such that it is an accurate representation of your skills), it's a really great sign for company quality in the intangibles.

The company I just joined is like this, and I can totally understand why people don't leave to try to continue up the total comp pyramid elsewhere.

This would be pretty normal in Europe, my dad went through the same and his job was never a concern. And treatment was fully covered by the public health system. Salaries reflect that of course, can't have it all.

is the company still active?

30% less a year for 3 years is about %100 of two years. You get the bonus of getting the money upfront and you would probably get 3 month sick leave at 100% place.

Money is the same.

> [heartwarming story of how money isn't everything and when life hits you hard and death is staring you in the face, you realize it's about the personal connections and love in your life that matters most]

> "yeah, but person could have made a more money-optimal deal elsewhere."

I mean, this entire post is about how to maximize money so I shouldn't be surprised, but this response just made me shake my head in sadness. Hope you're able to find joy and feel you have enough with your choices.

I got sick a few years ago and they were great for 6 months but the constant checking in and anxiety around adds up. Then they went out of business 6 months later.

I would rather have the money upfront. And it shouldn't bring you sadness, it's a reality that sadly many of us had to face.

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