Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

Nah, probably wasn't them as there was a Press Association headline being syndicated around for a few days with the same format (so good on Press Association for that)

They didn’t have to “gender” it, it’s the Guardian. They don’t write uplifting feel good stories about straight white men.

I'm sorry you told me, I'd have never known. I didn't click on the story because I didn't want to read about a 98 yo who calls themselves a physicist and doesn't have a PhD. Yes, I'm sure there have been some, but I would have already heard of them if it was a good story.

I knew what the gender was before opening the link b/c I know how media works in 2024

You mean divorced or never married?

Most of the people with the PhD I know that have a family either abandoned the "line of work" (e.g, mathematics PhD but did computer programming) or was a teacher/professor.

Do all seven work at the same place? The PhDs I know mostly work a M-W/9-5 schedule with the occasional late night or weekend day when it's crunch time for a conference deadline. Plenty of time left for family, and they all have families. But that's dependent on departmental culture, and there can be a lot of variance.

I've also heard quite a few people saying that their PhD was one of the best times of their life, because of how free they were to pursue things they found interesting (many of them have also settled down with a family, as well). Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

This is the danger of anecdotes, they can lead to bias. I have a PhD and I had my first child at 28. Almost all of my colleagues have families and children, except for the one person who was unable to attract a suitable mate (and not for lack of trying). Sometimes very bright people have trouble attracting an equivalent person. The pool is that much smaller and other factors (socioeconomic, culture) still play a role as per other relationships.

Seems like these folks are in academia or have been in academia until very recently? Academic lifestyle tends to take its toll, especially if you move every n years. But even then your sample seems a bit extreme...

Its hard to see how people who switch to industry relatively soon can be penalized so much (and there are a lot of people like that).

I (M 57) don't have children nor a PhD, I don't regret not having children but do wonder if I missed out on something not having a PhD.

Where are you meeting these people? Selection bias?

I don't see how going for a PhD limits one's family life.

Sure one could earn more money for less work in the industry, but being a PhD student is still a rather cushy job earning decent money compared to a lot of physical jobs out there. Also nobody cares at which time of the day/week you do your work, which is nice in times where other jobs might prefer to have your ass in an office.

My wife got a PhD by age 28 with over 20 science publications, didn’t stress at all during the time really.

She traveled the world during that time and we live a pretty chill life. Met lots of friends during that time too. Don’t purely listen to anecdotes.

> I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

Having a PhD or a family? Because I could see that applied to either. Money and effort are not the only metrics that matter.

As the saying goes, "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

If those people had not gotten their PhDs, but families instead, they very well might today desire PhDs.

There is a joke among scientists that choosing the career path will cost you your firstborn. It would be nice to quantify this but it is hard to. Anecdotally, main issue is financial stability so people with wealthy backgrounds or supportive (by time investment) families have a much easier time navigating this. I would be surprised if someone did the study and didn't find a delay till first-born child born when compared to similar people (SES background, abilities, etc) that went down the business/finance route. Edit:typo

This doesn't match my observations. Both when I was in academia and now in industry, I see lots and lots of PhDs with kids (often dual-PhD families). It would have been a lot more challenging if I'd stayed in academia (I live in the pricey Bay Area).

Fairly small sample group; if we're doing anecdata, I think more of my be-phd-d friends have kids than the non-phd ones.

FWIW, I finished a physics PhD 15 or so years ago, and 2/3rds or so of the people in the program with me have are married, and most of those couples have children.

There are certainly challenges to having a family while pursing a PhD, but they're not prohibitive, and there are advantages as well (flexible work schedule, Universities often have a lot of programs for employees with children).

Most of the people with PhDs in that age group I know are married and often talk excitedly about what activities they recently did with their kids. Many are married to other people with PhDs, and their kids also seem to intend to go for PhDs.

The early 30s postdocs seem to mostly be single though, so maybe they'll face that in their 40s and 50s.

The majority of the people I know who have PhDs have families with children by 30-35.

My experience in grad school is that there are two different classes of people pursuing PhDs:

- people whose parents have MSs or PhDs, who had guidance from a very early age, who have been advised the entire way through and are able to complete their PhDs by age 25-28

- people whose parents don't have advanced degrees, who are at a pretty severe disadvantage, who don't know how to start preparing for grad school applications during sophomore year of undergrad, who don't know how to pick a decent advisor, who don't know how to organize their own funding which provides some level of research independence and the ability to focus on completing their degree instead of worshipping their advisor, and these people are much more likely to take 6,7,8+ years to complete their PhD if they complete it at all

But that's not really relevant to this story. This is an article about a woman who dropped out of her PhD program to have kids, and was given an honorary degree decades later because the work she did complete was groundbreaking.

More than half of the PhDs I know (in technical fields) have families. Actually, almost all of them.

About half the PhDs I know have families and are happy with their career choice (challenging and rewarding work). You’re casting unfounded judgement IMHO.

My wife has a PhD, just turned 40, and we have three kids.

Towards the end of her program, she decided she didn't want a research career.

I know multiple people with phd and kids.

I didn't pursue graduate work because I didn't think the payback was there for the years of study. I haven't regretted it.

I'm friends with a bunch (15+) of people with PhDs. Many of them have partners and children.

That said, several of them joke with me that the fact that they have a PhD and I have a Masters is an indication I am smarter than they are.

All the PhDs I know do have families. Anecdata can work both ways.

And I’ve seen the exact opposite. The 3 PhDs I’ve worked with that fit that criteria all have multiple kids.

In the US a PhD has many pantronizing requirements, but in the UK, where Fowler is, is much more mature, usually only requiring a thesis. But with the war and kids and life, Fowler may have felt there was no need to get a PhD since she didn't plan to return to work as a professional physicist.

Degrees only matter if external pressure demands it.

> Consider how much more research and researchers we could have if we abolished the whole PhD thing.

We would have even more research and researchers if we abolished the whole university/academia thing.

;-) ;-) ;-)

I can't speak for every institution (and every department within), but at least in mine (in the US), there were pretty specific rules and requirements around awarding a PhD, involving coursework, qualifiers, proposals, the thesis and its defense. Seems unlikely that this could be easily circumvented for this type of situation.

Courses is a very minimal part. The thesis is practically all of it. And standard these days in most fields is that it is a collection of published papers, with intro and outro. There is also a Dr.Philos, where one has done the work independently of a university, and they evaluate the thesis only. It is rare and very difficult though.