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In my comment I was referring to mission critical systems, which most definitely you don't put on cheap commodity hardware you buy in a brick and mortar store.

Linux is used EVERYWHERE for a reason. Most car HUD now run on some form of Linux embedded, like basically all embedded and low power devices. The problem here is that people still put embedded mission critical systems on a desktop OS and slap desktop software on it, which is _a bad choice_.

> Linux isn't exactly reliable either... I'm sorry but that OS is barely capable of outputting a stable HDMI signal, god help you if you are on a laptop with external monitor.

This is demonstrably false, given the amount of people that game on Linux nowadays.

> System upgrades always make me nervous because there is a very real chance of something getting fucked up and my screen staying black the next time it boots, having to go into a TTY, and manually fixing stuff up or booting the previous version that was still saved in GRUB.

I had this happen to me once. Timeshift was painless to use, and in about 15 minutes I had my machine up and running again, and could apply all updates properly afterwards. If anything it made me bolder lol.

> Linux isn't exactly reliable either... I'm sorry but that OS is barely capable of outputting a stable HDMI signal, god help you if you are on a laptop with external monitor.

It just just works for me, and has just worked with every laptop I have had in the last 15 years. My kids and I have several Linux installs and the only one with HDMI output issues is a cheap ARM tablet that is sold as a device for early adopters.

> For 3 computers, 2 laptops, I've never _not_ had display bugs/oddities/issues. System upgrades always make me nervous because there is a very real chance of something getting fucked up and my screen staying black the next time it boots, having to go into a TTY, and manually fixing stuff up or booting the previous version that was still saved in GRUB.

At least that number of machines (I do not know whether you mean three or five in total) for the last 20+ years and can recall one such issue.

> For 3 computers, 2 laptops, I've never _not_ had display bugs/oddities/issues. System upgrades always make me nervous because there is a very real chance of something getting fucked up and my screen staying black the next time it boots, having to go into a TTY, and manually fixing stuff up or booting the previous version that was still saved in GRUB.

I've had a Debian update break GRUB itself as well: https://blog.kronis.dev/everything%20is%20broken/debian-and-...

I still use some Linux distros because when they work, they're pretty good, but when they don't, be prepared for a bunch of annoyances and debugging.

I also had Windows Update fucking up my VMs and physical installs multiple times - this stuff just happens _with desktop machines, on desktop OSes_. The point is, lots of companies are using random cheap x86 computers with Windows desktop for mission critical appliances and systems, which is nonsensical. The rule of thumb has always been, do not put Windows (client) on anything you can't format on a short notice at any time. Guess people just never learn

> The rule of thumb has always been, do not put Windows (client) on anything you can't format on a short notice at any time.

This is reasonable and sound.

> This stuff just happens _with desktop machines, on desktop OSes_

I wouldn't call Debian a desktop OS per se, though (albeit installing XFCE just in case does introduce a bit more risk of breakage).

Critique of consumer hardware is valid, but it's quite upsetting that bad software is the status quo.

How is your lack of a stable HDMI signal relevant to that the world's airlines and supermarkets and banks probably shouldn't run Windows with third-party antivirus software bolted on? That is a platform originally intended for office style typewriter emulation and games.

Every engineering-first or Internet-native company that could choose chose Linux and for simple reasons. Anything not Linux in The Cloud is a rounding error. Most of the world's mobile phones is Linux. And most cloud-first desktops too. They don't seem to be particularly more troubled with HDMI signal quality or other display issues than other devices.

>Linux isn't exactly reliable either...

That's certainly a perspective.

What are you saying? Am I holding it wrong?

I'm saying you're allowed to have whatever belief you want, no one is stopping you from stating it on the internet either.

This is one of the comments ever.

> I'm sorry but that OS is barely capable of outputting a stable HDMI signal, god help you if you are on a laptop with external monitor.

You may have had particularly bad luck with poorly supported hardware, but I don't think this is a normal experience.

I've been using Linux exclusively on desktops and laptops (with various VGA, DVI, DisplayPort, HDMI, and PD-powered DisplayPort-over-USB-C monitors and TVs since 2002 without any unstable behavior or incompatibility.

Most likely. I think laptops are particularly gnarly, especially when they have both an apu and a discrete gpu. While manufacturers use windows' amenities for adding their own drivers and modifications so that they ensure that the OS understands the topology of the hardware (so that the product doesn't get mass RMA'd), there's no such incentive to go out of your way to make Linux support it.

Yeah I mean you probably shouldn't put mission critical systems on a laptop with an external monitor either.

I mean, this isn't a support forum.

But working with hundreds of computers, running many different distributions of Linux for decades, they just haven't ever seen what you're describing. It's really hard to reconcile what I read here with my hands-on experience.