Ask HN: Every day feels like prison | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Every day feels like prison

Hey!

Man here, mid thirties. "Stuck" in a boring, but comfortable, 9-5 in tech. Trying to build a business on the side.

Every day feels like prison. I don't care about tech anymore in the way I used to care. I don't like working with people anymore. I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.

But the business doesn't work either. Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed and do bare minimum for yet another day. After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

Most days feel like groundhog day. I'm not depressed. I train regularly (4-5 times a week), I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs. I did big change in my life recently: quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty. Other than sport and building my business, I don't have any other hobbies or goals I pursuit. I'm in a relationship. I feel like I tick all "middle class" boxes, and yet I'm unhappy. I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

I want to change something but I don't know what. Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?

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I am absolutely blown away by the number of people who are saying that this person, who is clearly depressed and likely burnt out, can solve all of his problems by having children. It is the most insane advice I have ever seen on this site.

Jumping to a lifetime commitment as a kneejerk reaction is just so wild to me. Maybe start with a hobby? This guy is working a full time job and a side hustle, but doesn't seem to do anything for himself. What happens if he has kids and realizes he's still unfulfilled? It's not like he can just return them.

For real. The concept of “you have to love yourself before you can love others” is cliché but.. bringing kids into the world, that are a massive responsibility, I think should be a decision made with a full understanding of the work and love needed to do it right.

How tf are you gonna have the emotional capacity for kids if you don’t have it even for yourself??

All happiness is rooted on purposive and positive mental ideation of one's existence. Having children will affect your mindset and worldview; for almost everyone I know this change has been positive.

> All happiness is rooted on purposive and positive mental ideation of one's existence.

This is just one of many views on the nature of happiness. For example, Buddhists have another view on it, including the possibility of achieving the unconditioned happiness (nibbana).

> Having children will affect your mindset and worldview; for almost everyone I know this change has been positive.

"Almost", so there's still a chance it could be a negative change on a personal level, even before considering genetic risks. I think a gamble like that can't be suggested to a depressed person.

> How tf are you gonna have the emotional capacity for kids if you don’t have it even for yourself??

As a counterpoint, I always have more capacity to help others than I do myself.

Well written, totally agree.

I did the „have children and all will be well“ thing and the guilt I have towards those children is great.

In my defence, I myself was a „child will save our relationship“-child - needless to say it didn’t work and left me with a giant question mark: why am I here?

Hence I am a biased observer, each to their own & your mileage will vary.

> left me with a giant question mark: why am I here?

I was quite obviously a wanted child, and I still feel this way; we are thrown into the world with no regard for our own preference (obviously it can be no other way). Clearly most people take to it with little problem, but I've never really felt like I belong. I've mostly made peace with that, but would not wish it on a child.

>I am absolutely blown away by the number of people who are saying that this person, who is clearly depressed and likely burnt out, can solve all of his problems by having children.

You're outright stating OP is suffering from depression ("clearly depressed"). How is that assessment any better? In fact, it's probably worse because that's a clinical judgement.

In terms of the general advice that he build a family - how is that wrong or 'insane'? OP is looking for some kind of purpose or meaning in their life and coding isn't cutting it, and neither is building a tech startup, or travelling, or exercising. It just so happens that being part of a family and being responsible for their welfare has provided purpose for much of humanity throughout our existence. At the very least, it gives you a solid reason why you should get out of bed (the kids need to eat, they need to be taken to school, etc.). Why is that advice unreasonable?

> How is that assessment any better?

Because it's easy to not know what the signs of depression are, and once it has been flagged as a possibility, it's easy to simply go to a doctor for professional evaluation.

> Why is that advice unreasonable?

Why is "just be part of a family? And if you don't have one already, just go make one!" unreasonable, you're asking?

No, there is nothing "insane" about suggesting people to at a minimum _consider_ starting a family or think about children. It's what humans have been doing for thousands of years and many find fulfillment in it.

Additionally, OP clearly stated that he is not "16" and doesn't want to explore "hobbies". As I mentioned in my comment below thread, exposing him to diverse point of views can help him figure it out on his own.

I disagree. It's a great suggestion because it provides purpose, a reason to get out of bed each morning and a drive to provide and protect your children. The fact that he can't 'return them' makes the stakes high and only adds to the worthiness of the pursuit.

He'll still have days of struggle, we all do, but he'll have a fulfilling reason to push through them.

Or his burnout will quintuple, and despite having a fulfilling reason to get out of bed, he'll still be struggling - except now, a child gets to suffer through having a father who was not ready for parenthood.

There are unhappy parents and children of unhappy parents that are wincing at the idea of rolling the dice with a child over the idea that being trapped by a decision will somehow force feelings of fulfillment. I am all to familiar with how this kind of thinking has lead to depressed and resentful parents and children who suffer from them. You should have children because you want to.

“Many people find fulfillment and purpose in having children” = good advice

“Having children will give you purpose and make you feel fulfilled” = you’re projecting

I don't think people are recommending having children as a solution to solve any problems. It is simply a big life decision that changes perspective a lot. It also makes dealing with boring drudgery a lot more tolerable. It brings meaning to people who lost it. Parenting is an important stage in life after all.

None of this is universal.

What is?..

It's universal enough. There are people who are not cut out for having a spouse or children - they are a minority.

It's not universal enough to be advised to someone as a solution, increasing the already existing social pressure to have children, and also exposing both the potential parent and child to the risk of lifelong unhappiness together.

Also "spouse or children" – those are too different, Personally, I've been married for over a decade, but I don't have the emotional capacity to be a parent and desire to have kids in the first place.

>It's not universal enough to be advised to someone as a solution

Sure it is. And if it isn't, why would the suggestion to seek medical treatment be a more universal solution?

>and also exposing both the potential parent and child to the risk of lifelong unhappiness together.

That is a warped perspective.

You seem to not know anyone who was an unwanted child born because of some secondary motivation, and how deeply it traumatized them for life.

>You seem to not know anyone who was an unwanted child born because of some secondary motivation

Don't you think there's a difference between suggesting that someone start a family (and itemizing benefits of that life path), and FORCING someone to start a family? If OP does not want a family, they don't have to have a family. Geez.

You are the one aggressively pushing others to have kids with unproved statements that only a minority is not cut out for this task and that it will surely give them purpose. So the kids will become a means to an end, in your own words: "a solid reason why you should get out of bed".

This what leads to deeply affected people: being born and raised because the parents had some secondary goal in mind and needed children for that goal. Can be searching for meaning in life, social pressure, material benefits or even "our beloved first child needs a sibling".

>You are the one aggressively pushing others to have kids with unproved statements that only a minority is not cut out for this task and that it will surely give them purpose.

I think that's a statement of fact backed-up by a biological reality. There is always variability, and a minority of people, I admit, are probably not cut-out for establishing a family. Underneath all that is choice, you are free to choose one way or the other - a freedom that OP certainly has.

What is the aggressive push I'm making? Is it that I suggested to OP that the lack of meaning OP finds in their life, even though they have a good job and a comfortable life, is maybe due to the fact that they didn't establish a family so that they can actually give something of themselves to another human being? So that their day-to-day life isn't just about them? Is that advice worse than medicalizing the issue prematurely? Or to just find another hobby? Why not at least consider doing something that we have been biologically built for, that was a fact of our existence for eons?

Seriously, I do not understand you. Why shouldn't OP JUST CONSIDER it. You and I can't force OP to do anything. OP has already tried everything else. Why is that so distasteful to you personally, that you would rather OP seek medical attention, based on nothing, instead of having them really thinking about one of the most fundamental and meaningful institutions that a human being could engage in - starting a family.

>This what leads to deeply affected people: being born and raised because the parents had some secondary goal in mind and needed children for that goal.

We live in a society with a negative replacement rate. This is not a problem for our society.

I did not personally suggest medical attention, but it is something OP can try and then stop if it’s not helping. But having kids cannot be undone unless one is ready to abandon them.

>biological reality

>negative replacement rate

>most fundamental and meaningful institutions that a human being could engage in

I perceive a particular ideology behind those phrases, so the basics of our worldviews do not match in the first place. If anything, the "biological reality" for me is overshoot and ecosystem collapse, so there's no need to worry about replacement rates.

Are you sure you are not depressed? Depression isn't the "I'm very sad" meme that TV and movies makes it out to be, at least not for everyone. Having nothing wrong but just not being happy and having limited motivation is absolutely one way it can manifest.

Or it could be ADHD or a plethora of other things.

So you'll get the same advice as anyone else who feels generally bad - talk to a doctor. Maybe there is a medical thing going on. Maybe there is a mental thing going on. Ask a couple professionals to evaluate you, and maybe you'll find a path to improve things.

Agreed. You say you're not depressed but actually when your describe how you feel it sounds a lot like depression. It might be a good idea to talk to a doctor about it.

This sounds a lot like anhedonia, which is pretty a pretty classic depression symptom

This symptom sneaks up on me. It's normal to be bored sometimes or not satisfied with something. By the time it's bad enough to be recognizable, it's already interfering with my judgment.

It sure is pernicious.

It amazes me how much the brain can lie to you like that. And really, when you consider the spectrum of mental illness, anhedonia is almost on the milder side. Of course, it doesn't feel that way at all when it really gets going

At least for me, your messages reads "I am depressed...I am depressed...I am despressed...Oh, but I'm not depressed...I am depressed..." etc. What do you imagine depression to be? Everything you're describing is depression. I suspect when you say "I'm not depressed" you mean you aren't sad, or you experience happiness regularly, or something. Which basically means you only have 90% of the possible symptoms of moderate depression, not 100%. Given that hardly anyone has 100% of the symptoms (well, maybe unless they're severely depressed), that doesn't exactly make you special.

But depression is just a label, it's not like accepting that label means there is a single known fix for it. Accepting it might at least remove your current obstacle to exploring certain options.

Talk to a doctor. Talk to a therapist. You might be one of the many people for whom a chemical treatment will help, or you might be one of the many people for whom something like cognitive behavioral therapy will help. There is unlikely to be a magic bullet, but there are many things to try. If you're able to detect an incremental change, you can focus in on that path. Right now you may be dulled out enough that you don't have the energy to detect what's working or do anything with it, so you should start with some professional help to lift you up enough that you can start doing the work to make forward progress.

Yes, I have been in a similar situation. I can't say I've "escaped". I think that was my expectation for a long time, that either you're stuck in the mud or you come up with a way to escape, but it's one of those things where lowering my expectations was necessary to making progress, and in retrospect I've made more progress that I would have initially thought possible. But I don't feel like I've escaped. It's still there, and it still drags me down periodically, but it's been a while now since my last long period of really wallowing in it.

Family can help. Friends can help. Work can help. Entertainment can help. But all of them can be a crutch, too, and just be a means to extend the status quo. You'll need to put work into each and every one of them specifically to make sure they're actually taking you in the right direction. It's a constant vigilance sort of thing, which might sound awful but at some point you'll look back and see that it's more than worth it.

> quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

I did this, but in my 20s. Realized that wherever I went, I'd be there too. That realization shook me and I started to work to become more comfortable with who I was and what I wanted. Some of that was reading, a bit of therapy, but mostly just examining my desires and accepting them rather than thinking about what I "should want to do".

> Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?

I think you are asking about escaping the situation, but I think escaping the fantasy of a magically different life is a better goal. Things that I did that helped:

* trying new things that you dream of. If you think working on a farm is going to change your life, try it. If you think working in a different field will, try that. (I see you doing this to some extent with your business.)

* looking at your financial condition and seeing where it leaves you. Sometimes we stay in jobs because we feel we have to, but what steps can you take to not. There's some flexibility in software to go to 4 days a week or contract. Maybe that kind of job is a better fit for you. But check the finances first.

* pick big fun goals and treat the job as a means to that end. Could be more travel or other experiences.

First, there's nothing wrong with what you're feeling. It's a signal, and it's great that you're giving it consideration.

It sounds like you're in need of a Purpose. Like many folks in modern times.

Casually and broadly speaking, I'd say you have a couple of paths forward. Neither is a short-term holistic solution. These paths aren't mutually exclusive either.

1. Focus on creating and solidifying a family

Many many people trudge through boring and uninspiring work, all for purpose of providing and protecting for a family. There's great motivation and satisfaction in this. Don't be afraid of traditional gender roles and arrangements, and take pride in this accomplishment. Find good role models and mentors for this early, to help understand how to think about these challenges and gain fulfillment from them.

2. Refactor and keep trying with clear short-term goals

Regarding your business(es). The majority of successfully independent people have tried numerous things before succeeding. Repeatedly I hear the successful people say to keep trying. It's hard.

So, keep trying. Maybe you need to diversify your efforts and try some different services, products, businesses. Whatever your focus, set some more specific and short-term goals. When you have clearer goals, and you focus on those goals (with action), then other things like the 9-5 lose attention and focus. You shift from ruminating on the frustrations and instead attend to the goals and the possible.

Good luck!

Having a family is underrated IMO. Just gives you so much more perspective. And you can't know that until you do it.

Reminds me of this podcast on "Vampires, Life Choices, and Transformation": https://www.econtalk.org/l-a-paul-on-vampires-life-choices-a...

Sure, until you make a little money and she leaves you to take the house, kids, 1/2 your money and 30% off the top of your salary for the next 10 years.

Seriously, there is a VERY good reason men are refusing to start families in the US and brith rates are dropping. I tell my son and all young men I meet, "DO NOT get married or have kids in America until they rollback no fault divorce". Until then all financial incentives are for the woman to walk away as soon as you have any assets or substantial income. You saying it's "underrated" is a joke I hope, many of us would LOVE to have a family but financial incentives and society are against it.

The laws are slowly changing but places like Ohio are still in the dark ages, defaulting to 100% custody for the mother even AFTER paternity is legally established!

We are fighting for the passage of Ohio House Bill 14 that defaults to 50/50 custody but people like the Ohio House Bar Association and lawyers fight to keep us in the dark ages while the profit wildly.

Heya, sorry to hear about your experiences. I know precisely zero folks who have been in that situation (wife leaving as soon as some money is made) but it sounds horrible. I do know folks who have been through divorce and I don't think it is as flippant a decision on anyone's part as you imply. My comment was based, as all comments are, on my experience.

Lots of reasons for birth rates dropping, for sure, according to data: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-bri...

I'm just saying there is a VERY good reason for intelligent young men to avoid marrage like the plague. The second you say, "I do" the countdown timer starts and divorce in America is broken, biased and expensive.

> Don't be afraid of traditional gender roles and arrangements, and take pride in this accomplishment.

Maybe consider defying gender roles -- and not just those roles, all the expectations that brought you to this point.

The OP's post resonates pretty deeply with me - I've been disillusioned with my career (and my expectations of it) for a long time. Expectations met reality, and I, too, am unhappy with the status quo.

Okay, maybe lean into a family. Maybe don't, and don't buy into the traditional gender roles. Maybe find some way give up all the expectations you've had - and cultivate your own happiness in defiance of what has been indoctrinated into you your entire life. College, careers, marriages...perhaps all of these institutions should be questioned as you forge your own path.

Side note: I have nothing figured out. I have only just recognized that I am not fulfilled by my career and that working for $GIANT_MEGACORP in $PRESTEGIOUS_ROLE does not give me purpose. My extended mid-life crisis continues.

Indeed, it's an interesting and alluring point to defy. My experience so far is that it's not so easy to distinguish between misleading indoctrination and archetypal patterns that lead to positive long term outcomes. I try to share the things I've learned that have/are leading to good outcomes.

It's also interesting how mental framing can dramatically change outcomes. There are many people out in the world building widgets. Some people try doing it for the love of the widget. Other research indicates that fulfillment in building widgets only comes after getting good at it and practicing that craft. Then others do it solely to earn money for family, hobbies, travel. This mental framing for each individual seems very related to purpose and positive outcomes.

OP Here.

This blew up fast. I'll provide more context in this comment rather than commenting individually for the sake of not repeating myself.

First of all, children and family. I am considering this, but I doubt this is the solution to all problems. I agree with people who say it can provide a sense of purpose, but I also agree with people who think it's a bit irresponsible to recommend children to a stranger who shared something like I did.

Next, ADHD and depression. Never did ADHD test, I suspect I might have slight form of it. Depression I refuse to believe it exists in the form society labels it. For me, depression is a chemical imbalance, rather than a state of laziness/sadness/lost in life. Even if I have something like this, I won't take medication. Just a personal view on modern medical system, based on my experience with multiple psychologist and psychiatrists who did more harm that good (in my opinion).

Therapy. As mentioned above, therapy did more harm than good to me. Sure it might work for some people, but my experience with over 4 therapists ended up with either "nothing is wrong with you, don't visit me any more" or attempts to put me in a one of the boxes that the therapist learned about in school, while I clearly try to avoid any boxes.

God, hobbies, etc. I'm not 16 years old. I have grown up responsibilities, and I can't indulge myself in new hobbies every day. I'm focused (as much as I can) on building a business in order to escape the soul crashing tech industry and live on my terms (as much as possible, ultimate freedom is somewhat a lie). Together with this I try to work on my health, and maintain relationship(s). These are my 3 priorities in life, in no particular order. I don't have the time or desire to explore woodworking, or cave diving.

Thanks for everyone who commented, I appreciate every one of you <3

> For me, depression is a chemical imbalance, rather than a state of laziness/sadness/lost in life. Even if I have something like this, I won't take medication.

Depression is a chemical imbalance which is experienced as a state of sadness/lost in life.

How do you think people with depression subjectively feel, if not the way you feel right now?

And if you believe that this illness is a form of chemical imbalance, why not take medication? Surely you'd take medication if you had cancer, or a toothache, or a vitamin D deficiency?

Great followup and details. Your introspection sounds like you're on the right path for evolving and making progress. There is no silver bullet here (at least in my own experience).

Your three priorities (if I understood correctly), sound like your health, relationship, and independent business. This really does seem like a good track. In fact, having such clarity of priorities puts you ahead of many people. The only thing I don't see is maybe having a vision of the environment in which you pursue these priorities (home, living area, weather, etc).

I encourage you to consider specific short and medium term goals within those three areas. Maybe you can help draw out several purposes that adjust your mental framing.

As a small example, the hot topic of the children. I don't perceive anyone saying you should rush out and have a child tomorrow. Instead, adapting to your situation, maybe there are some specific family goals for the next few years.

Then, on the business side, maybe there are some specific goals for the next 1, 3, and 6 months. This might also need some goals about when to cut bait and try some different business ideas.

When I'm in the worst malaise, it's often when I have vague big picture aims without shorter term goals. Purpose is multi-faceted.

Thanks for sharing your journey. It's helpful for me to think and write about these topics, so I appreciate the prompt and hope I've helped your pursuit in a small way.

> Your three priorities (if I understood correctly), sound like your health, relationship, and independent business. This really does seem like a good track.

Have to disagree. The first post said "I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years." You don't write something like that unless your life is out of whack relative to how you want to live.

Why do you think building a business will fix the problem you feel? I don't mean that in a rude way, but I think answering that will help you figure out what you're looking for. If the goal is just to build a business you could start a business like a McDonald's franchise that is pretty much guaranteed to work if you work hard enough.

But I suspect that succeeding at some already derisked business model isn't what is drawing you towards building a business. It's probably not money either since from a discounted cash flow perspective it probably pays better to get a FAANG job. You say you want freedom but in most businesses you don't have a huge amount of freedom since you are constrained by what the market wants and organizational structures have to meet employee needs.

Hey!

> Why do you think building a business will fix the problem you feel?

It wont.

But it will solve one aspect of (lack of) independence -- the soul crashing 9-5 and working with people. I don't want to go length into my view of the tech industry and how I consider most of it an inefficient cog machine mixed with human psychology, but getting rid of it by creating a business which can be run on it's own -- will improve my quality of life significantly.

For example: there is no logical sense at all to work 9-5, 5 days a week from Mo-Fr, in an office. By having my business I can train in the morning and then work 12 to 8. I can take Monday off (without asking for permission). I can work from home or cafe, or a park. I get to build the lifestyle I want rather than conforming to some 1890s factory idea of the 9 to 5.

Another example: there is no need to have 15 people teams with idiotic daily standups. By building my own business, I get to work with only myself (yay), and some other people to whom I can outsource things I'm not good at, and not waste time on idiotic corporate rituals.

And as for McDonalnds, well, I been in the tech industry for over a decade now. That's what I know. I don't know anything about store locations, managing staff and stock. Sure I can learn, but it's smarter to leverage my existing knowledge rather than starting from 0. And also a physical business means more exposure to working with other people, and a more typical hierarchical structure.

Stuck, boring, and comfortable in 9-5 routine.

I, have become . . . comfortably numb, myself . . .

Maybe for a long time, I've considered 9-5 to be easy hours but what happens during that time needs to be uplifting in some way. Some big way would be good even if it's not financial.

The stuck, boring, and comfortable could be juggled or rebalanced on their own, or you could throw in the 9-5 for some other schedule or commitment. Or dig deeper from where you are now until you hit a promising spark, in spite of any disappointments that may be obstacles.

Over many years of employment I had no doubt I would be an entrepreneur, and a boring 9-5 is no more real work or commitment than a more uplifting 9-5, but I never could have started my company on the side during any of the boring times.

I think the ideal situation is where you look forward to going to work every day because you accomplish something for your employer, and you look forward to coming back from the employer whether it's home for R & R or to work on your own future business. You need to feel some worthwhile anticipation either way/direction.

For me 9-5 is not a problem in itself, but commuting can be the big downer, and a lot of it can go together if it turns out that commuting with the mainstream is what the real problem is. A revised employment schedule with a bit more time commitment can still be OK if it takes away from a more painful commute. You need to look forward to your destination both coming & going, and the anticipation needs to outlast your travel time each way.

It's never going to be like driving to Disney World, but that's an extreme example for many people of how long a trip you can sometimes maintain anticipation for.

Why do you think building a business will fix the problem you feel?

Probably because he wants a lifestyle business that will let him make a reasonably comfortable living without working 9-5 every day for 30 years.

You can do this by being a franchise owner too, or by being a real estate agent, or lots of other flexible careers, but he's not choosing those paths and exploring why will help him figure out what it is he is really after. He already has a comfortable life and could probably live frugally and then live off investment income in much less than 30 years if that was what his main motivation was, but I think ultimately even if he succeeded at that he would find that his original lack of meaning remained, just with more time in the day.

This is a good point, that understanding the underlying personal outcome is important. For me this helps narrow the specific businesses or arrangements that I should consider.

" I'm not 16 years old. I have grown up responsibilities, and I can't indulge myself in new hobbies every day. I'm focused (as much as I can) on building a business in order to escape the soul crashing tech industry ..."

But you're not escaping yourself, and those priorities, and that's probably why you feel trapped. Box your job into a 'job' category, along with the business and 'getting rich' and so on, and use the time outside that to explore other things life has to offer. Hobbies, sports, volunteering, may not sound enticing superficially but it's about meeting new and different people and getting outside yourself and your rut.

> I'm not depressed

also you:

> Every day feels like prison.

> Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed

> After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

It kind of sounds like you might have depression. I suggest you check in with your primary care provider or a licensed therapist.

I appreciate this is a personal question, but have you ever suspected you may have ADHD? I suffer from it, and it seems like our experiences are quite similar in some ways. I'm still trying to get hold of medication so I cannot confirm if that would help, sadly, but it might. If a test is easy for you to access in your area, it might be worth getting yourself checked out, or at least look at the experiences of other people online who have been diagnosed and see if they align with yours

Call it being in a rut, or a funk, or getting the blues, but please don't say like prison unless you've experienced prison. What you're describing is close to the opposite of my experience in prison.

Every day was one day closer to release, to being able to see and spend time with the people I cared most about. I saw dates on the calendar approach and looked forward to them. I never had much opportunity to be bored, and there were plenty of activities I could engage in, even during 24 hour lockdowns. I was forced and encouraged to eat fewer calories (at first at least) and lost a lot of weight, making me much healthier. I had goals I was very eager to work toward, but artificially put off because I couldn't do them while locked up.

This sounds like a mid-life crisis. Your SHBG levels rise with age and your free testosterone levels are likely low. Getting looked over for TRT can potentially help.

Having a middling career isn't enough for a lot of people. Why aren't you in the 1% killing it? A lot of them have problems, but having more money than you know how to spend is a source of contentment for a lot of wealthier people.

Wrapping it up with a quote: "I never worked a day in my life. It was all fun."

Jeese louise being pedantic about the wording of a feeling is just completely lacking in compassion. This post isn’t about you. Good job making yourself feel better while belittling the struggles of someone else.

“I had it worse than you and figured it out” just ain’t it dude. Same with “just be happy”

Life situations are all about individual perspectives, and I appreciate /mchannon's perspective. Besides, the OP posted in public, so all responses are valid, including non-sympathetic ones.

> Every day feels like prison

> I'm not depressed.

Hey man, are you sure?

> I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty

So you have a relationship, athletic hobbies, steady job, and side business?

That is luxury. It's just that you've convinced yourself it's prison for some reason.

> now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

As they say, wherever you go, there you are.

Even if you found "luxury" then you'd convince yourself it wasn't enough.

Figure out how to solve that problem. Because quitting your job or whatever isn't going to work.

> I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

If you get 30-40 more years of life, think about how lucky you'll be compared to the people who die of cancer in their 40s or 50s?

he's not "convincing himself" of anything. this feeling is a side effect of any number of things going on his life. don't jump to conclusions about someone.

It's not jumping to a conclusion.

Everything we believe is the result of us convincing ourselves of something. If you tell me the sky is green and I believe it, it's because I decided to believe the sky is green not because you told me it was green.

He believes his life is not luxurious. Someone with no relationship and no job could easily look at his life and see it as luxurious. Someone like Jeff Bezos could look at this guy and be like, "that's not luxurious at all."

This guy can change how he views his life and he might be better off for it.

Or he can hate his life and bemoan his circumstances. Up to him.

I know which one I would try to do!

You're talking about checking boxes, but are they your boxes or the boxes of what seems to be the norm? Your own, deeply personal, true goals are the ones that can change how you work and feel about your work and life.

You could try coaching (look for ICF certified, or if you're in UK, AC certified coach). This would help you find goals that trully matter TO YOU, and develop fulfilling process for reaching these goals.

You could also try pschoterapy. This could help you be more self-aware and develop mental skills for dealing with feelings that you described.

I felt very trapped. In the US, there were only a handful of tech hubs, and realistically I could only find work in the Bay Area and Seattle. The high cost of living meant I'd likely never be able to own a home unless I hit the startup lottery.

Spending a month in Thailand and (especially) Cambodia gave me a lot more appreciation for how much I had. However, it also broke my interest in the American Dream. Seeing a guy running a small motorcycle shop while his toddler son played on the steps made me feel that the Western, Corporate system is really damaged. Spending most of your waking hours at some office building with people you don't particularly like, working on something that you can't care about except in abstract terms? Seeing your life's work dissolve when it's abandoned after the next acquisition or bankruptcy? It's not a recipe for a satisfied life.

I don't know what the solution is, but your best bet is probably to get into therapy and learn tools to practice gratitude. It's so easy to become complacent and blind to the great things we have.

Edit: I just saw your additional comment. I still stand by my therapy comment, specifically for the purpose of learning tools and exercises. Unfortunately, I have no idea how you find a decent therapist for this purpose.

Hey! Thanks for the comment.

I've been in SEA and well as Central America. It does open your eyes a lot on how broken the western system is, and makes you appreciate what you have, more.

The problem is that, rather quickly, it goes away. You come back to your western part of the world, and you write posts like mine, where there are clearly people who have it worse. So thanks for reminding me about this.

It sounds like your material life is great! It doesn't sound like you are missing anything out here. But maybe things need to be rearranged in your heart? I agree with other commenters that it seems you are living a life according to a pattern (as you say, ticking the middle class boxes) but maybe with unclear purpose.

It is very normal to not like your job. Most people do not. They do it as a means to feed their families, build security for their future, or to buy amazing toys. Search yourself for the reasons you have your job. If you don't have any good ones, why do it? But if you are doing it for a reason, it is no prison, but a means to your desires. Once you find those reasons, stay connected to them. Journal them, meditate on them, remember them every day. Nietzsche wrote "He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how." This is how you build gratitude, and gratitude is how you sustain optimism.

I highly recommend therapy as a way to explore yourself and cultivate purpose. It has changed my life in similar circumstances. Other tools I have found very useful are exercise, meditation, good nutrition, and building relationships with others.

The feelings you are have are common and everyone feels this way sometimes. You are not lost, keep going.

You maybe depressed, maybe not, I don't know enough about all that. But meeting a therapist is a big yes. Don't shy away from it. Go consult one.

Having said that, don't punish yourself so much. Most people feel what you are feeling, most of the time. You just went through a big change in your life, and now you are wondering why it didn't help. Maybe you are blaming yourself for making all these changes. But guess what, you were focused enough to get it done, and maybe it didn't pan out. It's too early to say whether it did or not.

It's actually okay for things to not work out the way you want. The real problem is to consciously or unconsciously expect results for everything you do. And then finding fault in yourself when results don't show up. Don't punish yourself by doing that. Let things be for some time. Take pleasure in small everyday things, like making a breakfast that you enjoy. Look forward to things. Don't try to find things to look forward to, instead just look forward to routine things that are part of your life anyway.

In other words, relax. And consult a therapist.

I have noticed a dearth of satisfaction in the tech world of late. It seems that many were sold a false dream and the light is fading. I myself have been feeling this way and I have drastically cut back on personal computer interaction outside of work.

My recommendation is get closer to nature, trees, the living green, fresh air, sunshine... The things that bring a real physical joy to the mind and body. Mankind is not meant to spend all day in man-made caves with flickering lights

> I don't like working with people anymore

> I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.

I think owning a successful business means you work with people more, not less.

> After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.

There's value in powering through and getting stuff done. But there is also a time to step back and do less. You're the best person to judge what's right.

I agree with everyone else. You need a purpose. If not the business, then something else. Here's an incomplete list of things people find purpose in:

1. Religion

2. Children and family

3. Volunteering and helping others

4. Hobbies

5. Friends and community

6. Involvement in local politics

7. Climbing the corporate ladder

9. All-out hedonism - games, partying

> I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

Normal and natural. But 40 years is a long time and a lot can change. What would you like to be different?

It sounds like you're feeling stuck in a lot of ways, but you also feel motivated to be proactive in finding a solution. That's great!

The best single thing you can do is to find a therapist. They're trained, experienced professionals whose entire job is to help people with these types of situations - not just folks with mental health issues. They are like personal trainers but for your mind, not your body.

Look up some therapists in your area and try them out until you find one you get along with. Don't worry about the cost: if you're a middle class tech worker you can definitely afford it, and even in the US it's easy to find therapists covered by health insurance. It's an incredibly worthwhile experience.

Good luck with figuring all of this out!

With the disclaimer that free advice is worth what you pay for it...

Your current career path is not fulfilling to you. We know that because you wrote "I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years." Nothing wrong with that. The one strategy that won't work is to keep doing what you're doing.

You can change careers, possibly after going back to college to train for something completely different, or you can change your life, so that it doesn't revolve around your career so much. The latter could be getting married, it could be satisfying an unmet need such as religion or helping poor people get dental care, it could be flipping houses, or a ton of other things that don't require a change to your career.

I'm pretty sure that deep down in there you have some kind of passion going on, something you care deeply about. So ask yourself, why aren't you following your heart?

Sounds easy, I am well aware that it's often terrifying, but it's the only solution.

> I'm not depressed

Citation needed.

Seriously, as someone who has struggled in much the same way, go talk to a therapist or psych. Depression doesn't mean being sad all the time. Finding little interest or pleasure in doing things is one of the core diagnostic criteria.

Tough to reach conclusions based on just a few paragraphs, but it sounds like you are focused way too much on yourself. "I'm in a relationship" is one of the last things you mention (after your job concerns, money, gym and travel schedule, etc) when the reality is that relationships with friends and having and building family tend to be the most fulfilling aspects of most people's lives.

For me, my job is important. If you can find a kernel of passion in your work, it makes your career a lot more satisfying. But a career or successful business alone aren't enough to give most people purpose or deep meaning in life.

I'm not sure if you want the nuclear option. Read/Audiobook Nietzsche.

It might upend your world, but "Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed and do bare minimum for yet another day." will never exist.

Zarathustra my beloved

I'm stuck in a similar rut. And yes, I know there are people out there way worse off than me.

It's okay to be like that. Just take a small step towards something you'd like to achieve. It's okay if it doesn't work out, be proud that you've taken that small step. That's how many success stories actually started, from small steps combined with a huge amount of luck - but few will admit. And you might not succeed no matter how many times you do it - you should still be proud that you tried.

And remember - you only hear of success stories in social media.

Hey past me! Dont worry, this will pass, if you continue putting a considerable effort into trying to solve it. You will realize that only YOU can create meaning for yourself, it shall only come from within. No amount of checking checkboxes will ever do that, as someone will even suggest check more and MORE boxes: have kids, study religion, travel, pills, blah. This will not help! Btw, nobody on your journey will be able to help you with their stupid advice either, as this is DEEPLY personal. You will find it! keep digging.

Obviously you need more energy. It begins by getting enough sleep, so try to go to bed earlier. Cover all vitamins and minerals, then try other things that can boost your energy safely. Ensure good ventilation, both at home and in the office. Avoid air pollution as it can drain energy quickly. Once you fix your energy, you can then work on finding purpose, but don't quit your day job too easily if you don't want to lose your relationship.

Coming from my little 50 years of experience on earth and with many around me I helped - and get ready it will sound harsh - it's hard for many to truly understand they are not special.

Once you own that - and I mean really own it - only then can you move forward.

The last thing you should do is bring anything more in your life - except - what you are good at.

Find THE thing you're good at - it's the only thing that will bring you forward and some joy.

Once found - exploit it like hell.

Starting a family has been the antidote to this feeling in my experience. It's not hard at all to motivate myself to write the 6th database migration python script when my son crawls over and gives me a big smile.

It has also motivated me to take advantage of any free time I have. This baby is soon going to be forming a world view and I need to be there to show him the way. If that's true I need to learn a lot, and fast.

Take a chance on something new in life. Take classes, it's a great way to try new things without dedicating too much time or money into something.

It's funny. I'm STRIVING to have this type of "boring" life, but instead, my life is tragic and a struggle at this moment. It's all about perspective. For me, the 9-5 and having capacity to do something outside of work seems like a luxury to me.

What is missing in your life? Only you know the answer.

Where did you travel and what did you see? I was away in SEA for five years in my twenties and it changed me in very positive ways.

Ultimately, life and experiences are about people and interactions with them, so maybe something in there that you could optimize. Only thoughts tho, no concrete advice I can give.

I do think that figuring this out on your own is a fun little journey in of itself.

Have a look at Ikigai

https://themindfool.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Ikigai_do...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai

Every day feels like prison

Dying from cancer makes me feel that way too: https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=40970295 In my case, I can't really speak any more. Until mid-June I could eat pureed foods, and now I can't even do that.

You only live once. Make some changes. Deepen friendships. Focus on romantic partner. Life is not about you, it's about the people you're with and who are around you.

Sounds like you are neither doing research, nor playing video games, which are my top morale boosters. Perhaps you should start.

What about other communities outside of work and “business”?

My pops has been going to a local temple for almost 20 years now, he’s not a religious person it’s so he can integrate with people in the community.

> I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs

Try a guided journey with psychedelics, in my experience it’s always a good hard-reset on the brain.

Get married and have children. For time immemorial that is what your ancestors have done. It will not make you happy as you currently conceptualize it, but it will add purpose (and much suffering, as always comes with purpose) to your life. It is what you are designed to do.

> Get married and have children.

This is terrible advice to someone you know virtually nothing about, other than the three paragraphs they chose to type out about themselves. The first part, fine, it only affects a consenting adult. But I always hesitate to cheerfully tell someone to go ahead and sign up for a minimum of 18 years of responsibility for a human being, a human being that you'll be responsible for molding into a happy, healthy human being - a thing that's surprisingly easy to fuck up to the detriment of not only them, but everyone they touch.

This advice is slightly more irresponsible than suggesting to someone that they get a face tattoo.

I agree

OP: "Every day feels like prison."

HN Advice: "What you need is an irrevocable, lifelong commitment! Get married and have children!"

Yep. Exactly.

Sadly, it's the advice of the typical parent - bring children into the world to suffer for entirely selfish reasons with no regard for the needs, feelings, or welfare of the HUMAN BEINGS they are creating.

"Create children in order to cure your existential dread" only takes into consideration the needs & feelings of one of of the potentially many humans affected by such a choice.

Nobody fucking cares about the severe pain of the victims this sort of advice creates.

a teleological argument has nothing to do with selfishness and in fact i am recommending to OP immolation of the hedonistic pleasure-drive i don't know who you are arguing with but it isn't me

OP can immolate whichever parts of himself he wants, he's an adult, but it's irresponsible to suggest that he have a child simply for that one purpose.

Nope. No one is telling them this because everyone is either scared to do so or is trapped in a hedonistic self-oriented conception of happiness.

This is my advice, I am sincere in it and I feel that, given their presentation of the facts of their life, it is likely to be the most effective way to grow as a human. Note that I do mention that it will give them purpose and suffering, not happiness as they current conceive of it.

“Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. But if you take this irreversible life choice that lots of people actually regret, I sincerely feel that you are likely to see the light.”

People shouldn’t have kids to soothe their existential malaise; they should have kids because they actually want to devote their lives to nurturing another living thing. They are not a prop for your personal growth. This is really, really harmful advice.

FWIW given the rigidity of your thinking, I would really hate to be your kid by the time I started having opinions of my own.

P.S. You being out here responding to every single comment without hesitation and not reconsidering your position in the slightest is a sign of bad thinking.

>FWIW given the rigidity of your thinking, I would really hate to be your kid by the time I started having opinions of my own.

Can confirm, it's torture.

i asked my sons how, given the rigidity of my thinking, it was being my, er, son:

"fine", "great" & "awesome"

of course there are many issues with this poll, i will not debate that fact, but at least we now have some data to work with!

> P.S. You being out here responding to every single comment without hesitation and not reconsidering your position in the slightest is a sign of bad thinking.

Funny. You make a snide remark to OP "Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong." and immediately follow it up with "here's this opinion I disagree with that is bad thinking, because they don't immediately change it based on a few comments from internet strangers".

I really, really, hope you see the hypocrisy here.

You’re right; what I should have said was “everyone who disagrees with me is operating from a morally inferior value system!” but that’s not as pithy.

In case you’d prefer something more prosaic: there is a difference between stating a contrary position and implying that other people’s positions indicate a defective worldview from which they should seek to free themselves. Or, more simply, there’s a difference between attacking a point and attacking a person.

I would also add that your last point is a bit of a straw man. I can scarcely clarify except by restating my point: spamming a thread with kneejerk retorts instead of taking the time to reflect on someone’s criticism is a dialectical red flag.

I have a child. I very specifically wanted to have a child with my spouse, and every day I'm glad I did it.

I don't suggest doing it to people as a form of therapy.

Your advice is bad.

who said anything about therapy? i offered only suffering and purpose.

Other people in the thread.

I don't think this conversation is useful past this point.

I agree. And I do want to thank you for engaging me in good faith and relatively politely despite your opinion on my advice.

You don't need to produce children to have purpose. This advice is reckless.

If you are feeling trapped, adding children to the mix are not what you need. I love my wife and family, but it is definitely limiting. Even changing jobs within my field is challenging because I've built a lifestyle around my family's needs that my current job accommodates, never mind changing careers. Having kids is the biggest commitment you could ever have.

I would say that is one of the 3 conclusions I've drawn from philosophy as a solution to 'What is the Good?':

>Darwinism (as you imply, it makes you well rounded, almost like an Aristotelian Happy person, without the virtue ethics.)

>Utilitarianism(some combination of advancing humanity to reduce pain and increase pleasure)

>Hedonism(Nothing matters, enjoy the sensory experience)

A good list. I think you could split the Aristotelan concept out from Darwinism and also add the Religious concept: "To do what God wills".

There is a lot of wisdom in the old ways.

When the carrot (which is attached to the stick) disappears, attach a new one, move on

Isn't that kind of selfish though?

What if you have a child just to make yourself feel better and that kid goes on to have a shitty unhappy life wishing they'd never been born?

Why would you feeling better increase the odds of a child having a shitty unhappy life?

Sounds like a pretty shitty excuse in my ears, sorry.

All the people in Auschwitz could have had happy parents but a lot of them probably wished they'd never been born. Life is hard. Really hard sometimes.

Forcing a child to go through it all just to give your own life meaning? Totally selfish.

Do you really feel comfortable judging like that. You have no idea about their wishes.

Using that as an argument for not having children is beyond silly.

Just say that you don't want children, it's ok, you don't have to make up reasons and try and convince others.

I think you're missing out on something amazing, but that's just my personal opinion.

It's not a guarantee that having a child will make OP feel better.

But not unlikely from my experience, it tends to reset your priority list in a good way.

Purpose is key, as is responsibility.

And children are amazing.

What if women aren't interested in you?

This is a very difficult question

In pervious times there were more options because there was very little divorce and people, for the most part, paired for life, which meant one-to-one pairing was easier, and, for people who didn't pair up, there were options such as monasteries, convents, etc

I am not an expert, just an old man, so take this advice for what it's worth: perhaps try getting involved with a church in a volunteer capacity and really focus on volunteering/helping other people. This may lead to finding someone you are compatible with and, if it does not, will give you a family-like (with all the good & bad associated with that) environment in which to connect with other people.

At a simplest level become the kind of person women are interested in.

Take care of you health (sleep, exercise, and eat well), dress in a put together fashion, take care of hygiene, have interests that excite you and you can share with others, and finally socialize more.

have interests that excite you and you can share with others

I think the best piece of concise wisdom I've ever read is, "to be interesting, be interested". Meaning not only to have hobbies and interests, but to be interested in the people around you.

Finding a woman is like finding a job--it's a numbers game. The more you put yourself out there, the more likely you are to find someone who's a good fit for you. Life is not a movie. You are not going to bump into your soulmate in the dry goods section at Whole Foods. So get on all the apps. Do speed dating. Put yourself out there. Accept the constant, crushing pain of rejection as the cost of doing business. Just like in a job hunt, you've got to desensitize yourself to rejection, secure in the knowledge that every 'no' gets you closer to the inevitable 'yes'.

You've also got to be be brutally honest with yourself about your prospects.

Pretend for a moment that mate desirability is objective and quantifiable, and that we've got every available woman in your area charted on a bell curve of desirability. The top 0.01% will say NO to you every time, because they're looking for a male in the top 0.01% of desirability (i.e. Gavin Newsome lookin' motherfuckers with Marth's Vineyard money). Meanwhile, the bottom 0.01% will say YES every time, because you're a HUGE catch from their perspective. Somewhere in the middle are many, many women who would be interested in you.

If you're struggling to find women who are interested in you, the cause is likely either A) not searching in earnest, or B) you're over-estimating your own desirability, and thus fishing in unproductive waters.

It seems that people think I'm asking for advice, but really it's just the question that always occurs to me when people are questioning the falling rates of marriage and fertility.

Myself, I think my problem was that I didn't want the job. I'm not even that thrilled about having to work my actual job.

OP is in a relationship.

More of a question for the people who recommend it as general advice/are worried about fertility. Seems to be a pretty common factor these days.

> Get married and have children

I second this. I was in a similar position as the OP and after having a child the perspective has changed quite a bit and soul crushing jobs are a lot more bearable, meaning is no longer tied to the job.

Your experience is common enough that The Simpsons addressed it.[1] It's interesting to see the positions being taken in this thread. There are supportive comments like yours, and legitimate opposition to OP's advice.

Someone on either side of the argument who follows this advice may find it's not what they expected, for better or worse.

[1] https://i.redd.it/f2yrbleee7v81.jpg

are you serious? this nuclear family cliche is terrible advice and would only make one feel even more stuck. ludicrous lol

Having a family is now a cliche..? OP gave his opinion like everyone else and his position is just as valid. Ultimately having a family and children gives most people purpose in life. I think exposing inclusive point of views can help him figure it out on his own.

yes, i am serious

This is good advice. Happiness is found through purpose, not hedonistic pursuit of abstract happiness for its own sake. Family is the ultimate purpose, but if not family then find a way to contribute to the greater world: Start a business and employ others, or dedicate your time to a charitable cause.

Purpose frees you, not traps you further, if you embrace it.

Contribute to something bigger than yourself and you'll start to forget about the middle class mind prison you feel like you're trapped in. Random example: help to build low cost housing via habitat for humanity. Also accept that a big part of life is simply a shit sandwich, so I recommend finding a way to not be so serious and maybe even find humor in it. Anyways, I'm late to my standup.

Find faith in a loving transcendental power (ie God), start praying, and try to do his will. You will see new vistas of opportunity open up, along with a meaning to life.

> I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs.

Fix that.

> I don't care about tech anymore in the way I used to care. I don't like working with people anymore.

Fix that too or do a different career.

You mentioned that you’re exhausted after your day job. Do you have energy to tend to your relationship and meet your partners needs usually?

Similar experience. Firstly, I recommend exploring this with a therapist. I have found that I wasn't wired for happiness due to unresolved childhood experiences. Secondly, finding meaning and purpose - in nature, love / family / community. Materialism is destroying everyone's capacity for fulfilment.

To me, this sounds almost like burnout. The job plus the side business may be taking more bandwidth than you have. You may have to pick one.

You're depressed.

You pulled a 'geographical' and it did what those do, and you're back where you started.

Start by talking to your Doctor.

No created or temporary thing can ever fulfill you in the way you recognize that you are unfulfilled.

I got burnt out on a job and then spent a year riding my mountain bike. Got into some photography, which I've since dropped. Got into some GIS and map making. After a year, I was ready for coding again. I did some contract work that I didn't really care about, but the contracts were short-term and they paid well, and I could take time off between them.

Eventually a buddy of mine wanted to start a company, so we did. And it eventually grew big enough to support us, but even though the work was interesting to start, it got dull. And finally I just couldn't do it anymore.

So I quit, and then floated around working on whatever I wanted to work on for a year. I took a few odd jobs. I think I was on track to earn something like $25k that year.

But then, due to some programming guides I'd written, a teaching job opportunity fell into my lap. And I always knew that teaching was what I wanted to do. It was a pay cut, but at this point I was more than willing to trade the money.

I've since moved on to a State University for even more of a pay cut, and I work about 8 months a year (3 months unpaid), and this is my idea of the perfect semi-retirement for the duration. Not too shabby.

Sometimes people still approach me for programming gigs, but so far every single one of them has not engaged my enthusiasm. And even the promise of possible, improbable eight-figure payouts isn't enough.

But I always knew what it was I wanted to do. The question is, what would you do if you had a million dollars and didn't have to work?

I do recommend doing exactly what you're doing, and getting on figuring it out now. Because when you hit your 50s, time really starts ripping by. And it might take some time for you to figure out.

"You know what I would do if I had a million dollars? I would invest half of it in glorious mutual funds and take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities and--"

"Samir, you're missing the point. The point is you're supposed to work out what you--'PC Load Letter'? What the fuck does that mean?!"

I don't know you, but I am also in my mid 30s, work a boring (but comfortable) tech 9-5 job, and have been trying to build something on the side for a while. I have a great girlfriend, earn a decent amount of money, own a house, am healthy and work out. So we do seem similar, but I did abuse alcohol and more. Tried to find pleasure in hedonistic ways.

A few years ago I started asking myself: "Is this it? Is this all that life has to offer? What's the point?". I was raised secular, and never knew spirituality or religion, but decided to delve in. I was, however, very much against Christianity and was willing to try anything except that. Long story short, after reading about religions, history, theology, I ended up becoming a proponent of the thing I hated the most.

Now I see beauty in life, and especially the future. My fiance and I are getting married, we now go to Church, we're both looking forward to starting a family.

I don't know if you're religious in any way, or interested at all. I was definitely not interested the first 30 years of my life.

If you'd like: I'd be willing to get into contact with you if you need to talk. Not to convert you to Christianity, but since we seem similar in this very narrow scope, maybe we can both learn from each other.

Regardless, I truly hope you find your salvation, as I have found mine. God bless!

I was raised Catholic but lost the belief quite young. Not to be an edgy atheist, but it was basically lost along with Santa. I probably spent a decade trying to believe, but to no avail. I think having a chronic pain condition from a young age probably makes it difficult to believe in any sort of loving force in the world, and then a few observations about the way people who say they follow these religions actually behave will often further disabuse one of that notion.

I'm sure I don't have to explain Christian theology to you. It's very sad that you have to go through this physical pain, as well losing faith as a result.

As for people who say one thing and do something else. People are fallen and hypocrites. I myself an still trying to do better, but I realize I'm still full of anger. I hope to better myself eventually.

Out of curiosity; did your spiritual life end with Christianity? Or did you continue your search?

I stopped seeing anything as much as a unified Christian theology long ago and now I doubt that any two people sitting next to each other in a pew are even really worshipping the same god; god is merely an idea that each individual holds in their head. I think whatever part of the brain that allows one to believe in the supernatural is simply missing from me, but I wish I was capable of believing.

That's very interesting. But if two people are friends with a person, don't they have a different view of that same person? They might be friends with a different idea / perspective of that person, but it is still the same person.

It might not mean much to you, but I'll pray for you. I wish you the best!

I read three pages down in the comments and not a single person has suggested that you see a therapist.

What the hell is HN going on about with all of this; Have a family BS. It sounds like you're suffering some burnout, and it might be time to seek some help from a psychologist/psychiatrist.

Change up your training routine. Spend more time outdoors. Quit the dead-end tech job. Downsize and travel more.

Good luck!!

>Trying to build a business on the side.

The comfort of the current job makes it difficult to put the work into building a business eh.

> I don't like working with people anymore. I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.

That's not going to work out for you. Businesses require you to interact with people.

>Most days feel like groundhog day. I'm not depressed. I train regularly (4-5 times a week), I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs.

Good ole midlife crisis. Not exactly depression but it might as well be.

>I did big change in my life recently: quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.

You're seeking purpose. this might help: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/

>I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty. Other than sport and building my business, I don't have any other hobbies or goals I pursuit. I'm in a relationship. I feel like I tick all "middle class" boxes, and yet I'm unhappy. I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.

Yep. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vifg2LgF_ic

What you're discovering is that you're not going to be in the 5%ers, the financially independent category.

This statistic got worse since this video published. It's now more of a 1%er group and everyone blames the system, but that's completely wrong.

>I want to change something but I don't know what. Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?

You're thinking, wow i'm never going to be more of a success than i am right now. You have conformed to the 'middle class'. You chose this.

There is no competition in our society. you can be whatever you want to be, so long as your helping others and trying your hardest. The greater the # of people you can help, the better.

work towards something that is yours. not some career BS but something that is a memory that only belongs to you. do something really really hard. e.g. like quit your job and walk the Appalachian trial for 6 months to reset how you feel about yourself. succeed in something you thought you could never ever do. but here is the key. it has to be fucking hard.

after you fix the relationship and expectation of your self consider whether you still want a business. or if you still want the same partner. be more selfish. if more selfish isn't for you maybe you'll realize how much you miss her. or how much you want kids. only then consider going forward with the burden of marriage, kids and what society expects of you ...

pain is the key but it doesn't automatically mean that pain needs to come from your partner or your kids. pretty sure you'll be perfectly capable creating pain by yourself.

you can do it.

Prison in your country sounds quite pleasant!

Man here, mid fifties. Career peaked a decade ago, closing in on retirement.

The days can be slow, but years go by fast. I also don't care about work the way I did in my 20s and 30s. I never liked working with people (I liked individual performance and contribution the most, realizing this after having to manage several teams at once), but the only way to compete well and achieve meaningful things is in healthy teams. It's just hard to find the healthy people and healthy missions for those teams--one bad apple can spoil things, and there are bad apples everywhere.

The discipline you exhibit in exercise and moderation is big, as well as the courage to change jobs and build a business--I launched a business (late 40s, early 50s) that was mildly successful, but decided it wasn't worth it after many years. I have no regrets shooting my shot. I've been married for about 3 decades and have 3 great kids.

Here are some of my specific experiences and conclusions, which may apply generally to you and a plurality of people:

+ marriage is really hard. The hormonal buzz fades, and a lot of big decisions around money, career, kids, relationships need to be made and they can take a toll as not every decision is a win-win, better-over-good. The political polarization of the US and world is fluff compared to the large gaps between two people in a marriage. But marriage is also really great, to be able to halve the weight of life and double the celebration of it. I don't think many people are willing to do what it takes to have an extraordinary marriage, and even if both are, they won't always be 100% energized at the same time, and there will be drier seasons. Two are indeed better than one, but the opportunity costs of achieving a great marriage are high. Don't get married unless you can be all-in for the rest of your life, and you find someone who also seems to be (people don't always accurately indicate who they actually are or how they will change in dating and courtship, which is why a wedding is such an expression of hope, especially when looking at the data for success).

+ kids are great, but they are a ton of work and present high costs. The optimal amount of kids to have is probably 3-4, as sibling interaction is priceless for basic development. Special needs children are even more challenging to raise, and will be another stressor on a marriage. Having even 1 child will make a failed marriage even more devastating in impact. Even more differences and conflicts between spouses on values and priorities will emerge when parenting, and if spouses can't parent collaboratively, then they will likely fail more than succeed as parents--not as people, and I am not saying their children are failures, just everyone having to face more trauma, and yes, some are able to transcend their trauma

+ it is important to find real purpose in your job. I work in the US financial sector, and all my global travels (to Africa, Latin America, Europe, and Asia) and research leads me to believe that my work reduces poverty (through providing higher economic stability and productivity, relative to other jurisdictions) but it does so at a higher cost than need be--financial intermediaries enrich selves much more than clients. Still, I am both proud and humbled to be helping others emerge from and stay out of poverty, and hope that Wall St fees continue to ebb over time. I am confident your work also helps others, and you need to embrace the good that you are doing, as meaningless as it seems most of the time. I was a programmer out of college, and found that software change management was complex and tedious ... but I see that software progress will continue to be a great democratizing force for generations.

+ On faith and spirituality, I am a data and evidence-driven person, but I realize that we don't have enough data to make conclusions about the existence of a Creator, so it requires a leap of faith to assume One. The main benefit is that God is the Source of human worthy, dignity, value and rights. I have yet to identify a credible alternate source--but am familiar with alternate theories, and appreciate learning from Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, etc. I am all-in with my local church, which is rare for its diversity (political, socioeconomic, racial, cultural), and we wrestle with loving people well--which Jesus was clear about, but churches tend to forget--and seeking truth where there isn't much data, through faith as well as reasoning. Through this community, I am able to help many friends who are struggling in various areas of life (including marriage, work, health, philosophy and other issues), as well as under-resourced people as close as a migrant shelter near the church building and as far away as one of the poorest provinces in Africa. Just this past weekend, I was able to help an asylum seeker from a repressive Middle East regime with career and personal finance counseling.

+ I am mildly engaged with my alma mater, in a variety of volunteer capacities. One role I had was to mentor an accepted high school student who lived nearby, and I am meeting him for lunch next week, almost 20 years after our first lunch. I would definitely recommend you meet many people, and then cultivate deeper and long term relationships with a few, the ones that resonate with you the most. I find the relationships made in the context of serving others can be the most meaningful, and whatever you are doing to pay the bills is really facilitating these relationships and your life legacy.

+ I am looking forward to continuing to see my kids thrive, through college, and perhaps marriage and grandchildren down the road. I am looking forward to retirement and travel. But I am also looking forward to new ways to help others, such as tutoring 1st and 2nd graders in reading, and 3rd and 4th graders in math--as if they don't get reading and math in these phases of life, they will likely be unable to ever grasp the basic skills to navigate and make good decisions.

In sum, there is so much life ahead for you to live. You are likely a global one-percenter in income ($60k) and retirement net worth ($900k), but it's natural for us to compare up and selectively--my hypothesis for why social media is such a time suck and contributor to mental health problems. But you need to discover the meaning, purpose and connections that concretely manifestable, which can all be hazy right now from the fog of culture. Seek, and you shall find.

Imagine you have all the money in the world. What do you do with your day? Really give it a try -- the answer may provide a little direction.

Also I agree with the other commentor that you are in burnout mode. If you have a good startup idea, it may be better to raise money instead of trying to squeeze it in on the weekends at the expense of your nervous system.

Sounds like mid-life crisis!

Go out and buy a fast car, teenage fashions, and pick up a young girlfriend or two, lol.

But seriously, try a new hobby (and meet other people doing it), learn a language or musical instrument, join a choir, take up a sport, volunteer for charity work, teach a coding club, etc. You'll find there is life outside of work.

If you are unable to make yourself happy now, probably the same applies to your partner. Go talk to him/her and see if you can sync up again, and work your way out of this void together.

Good luck.

Welcome to life.

Ask yourself “quiet life or blaze of glory?”

WHY NOT BOTH?

this made me chuckle

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