Seiko Originals: The UC-2000, A Smartwatch from 1984 | Hacker News Reader

Seiko Originals: The UC-2000, A Smartwatch from 1984

namokimods.com

146 pointssegasaturn42 comments

This watch is actually capable of running custom software and there was a single cartridge of software available for it at launch. No other software was ever made for it until 2017 when a developer reverse engineered the whole thing:

https://github.com/azya52/seiko

https://www.hackster.io/news/reverse-engineering-the-world-s...

Everything about the watch had to be figured out from scratch from the communications protocol to the CPU instructions. It's pretty cool to see a device from 1984 actually getting some "new life" in this way.

> Imagine a smart watch, but from 1984. That sounds like something straight out of a scifi film since the 80s is not exactly known for great advances in personal computing.

Now that's a ridiculous statement, especially when you're specifically talking about the year 1984...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErwS24cBZPc

Interesting, but weirdly written article.

> The Mac, before it was cool.

That caption (of an image of the original Macintosh) also made me wonder. I wasn't born, but I had the impression that there was a lot of hype around the Mac, with the iconic Superbowl ad and everything?

> While the UC-2000 apparently played video games, we can’t imagine how it would have looked like with such a tiny and colorless display.

This was immediately followed by an image of Tetris being played on the watch. No need to imagine, haha.

Not hype like the iPod or iPhone. Computers hadn't become a household item yet. The internet didn't exist yet, software companies were barely a thing, and for the price there just wasn't really a justifiable use at home yet. It was an expensive video game console and word processor. Neat sure, but it wasn't flying off the shelves. Rich person toy. Early and mid 90s is when home computers really took off.

Very rich person toy!

Not only had computers not become a household item, but for those who were interested enough to buy a home computer, there were many different brands and models to choose from, most at a fraction of the price of the Apple. The computers I actually saw in the 80s were Timex, Toshiba, Sinclair, Commodore, Tandy, BBC, Amstrad, Archimedes. These were pretty much all separate ecosystems, with different models from the same manufacturer frequently being incompatible with their stable mates. Considering how capable machines like the Amiga and Archimedes were at a fraction of the cost of the Apple, and considering the fact that Apple was just another expensive ecosystem, you had to be particularly loaded to buy into it. Was there a must-have piece of software that only existed for the Mac back then? Computer graphics was arguably better on the Amiga, and even desktop publishing wasn't a done deal.

I know of only one person who had a Mac, and it was loaned to him by the company he worked for (as a software developer). No idea why they chose Apple.

The first "PC" I ever saw in real life was a Wang (unknown model) some time in the very late 80s. that was purchased for our school tech drawing class. It ran DOS and AutoCAD (unknown version) and also had Prince of Persia.

>The first "PC" I ever saw in real life was a Wang

Anyone got a history on why Wang Computers didn't take off?

The succint answer would be they were choked out of existence in the office market by IBM.

They had an early lead and captured word processing, IBM had big iron and expanded down to personal computers suitable for office word processing and had the big government | military | banking contracts to force through sweeter deals on the desktop range as a "one shop" solution for everything computing related.

Does that mean the trademark is now free and I can start selling Wangs to people?

Hmm, dunno, we've got those in town: https://youtu.be/a64XBWtGuGc?t=39

Founder Dr. An Wang set up the company to have tight control of the stock via his family. He elevated his son, Fred, to president.

While Dr. An Wang (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Wang) was a genius and pioneer in computing, his son was not up to the task of running the company and the coming PC revolution caught him flat footed. The company never really recovered.

https://tedium.co/2017/02/14/wang-computers-history-demise/

They kinda did, they sold some minicomputer stuff and also standalone wordprocessors even in the Netherlands. I played games on the one at my dad's work. They just didn't pivot to the PC age as others have mentioned.

The best thing to come out of Wang that everyone used in All PC clones between late eighties and late nineties were SIMMs.

Single in-line memory module https://patents.google.com/patent/US4656605

> Rich person toy.

The Mac, yes. But my father was a construction worker earning a below median wage (definitely not middle class) in 1988 when we bought our Atari 1040 ST. This was in the Netherlands, Europe.

(Although admittedly we were rich by world standards.)

Lots of people had computers in the 1980s. Not just "rich people". There were even dozens of magazines about computers that you could find in any bookstore or newsstand. There were stores in every city where you could buy software for computers in the 1980s. You generally didn't have access to the Internet (which certainly did exist even if the Web didn't) unless you were at a university, but other online venues existed in the 1980s such as dial-up bulletin board systems. I got my first modem in 1983.

I agree. The Mac was already cool in 1984, in particular because of Ridley Scott‘s epic ad.

I certainly wasn’t cool for being into the Mac back then. PCs, but mostly Commodores and Amigas was where it was at.

> This was immediately followed by an image of Tetris being played on the watch. No need to imagine, haha.

That tetris game was written recently (2010s IIRC) by a guy who reverse engineered the watch. It was most definitely not available back then.

Yeah, I almost stopped reading the article after that phrase. If I had to pick a decade with the greatest advances in personal computing, I would pick the 80s! The first personal/home computers appeared in the 70s, but they were mostly for hobbyists, even sold as PCBs like the Apple I. The 80s began with the first home computers being available in larger numbers (C64, Atari 800, Apple ][, Sinclair Spectrum etc.), continued with the more powerful 16-bit machines (Apple Mac, Amiga, Atari ST) and ended (sadly, I think) with IBM PC clones becoming cheap enough to wipe out almost all of these (except the Mac, which survived just barely).

> 16-bit machines (Apple Mac, Amiga, Atari ST)

(small nitpick) These platforms all began with Motorola 68000 which has a 32-bit ISA.

... with 16bit bus.

Which is why we call the machines 16bit; they're built around 16bit buses.

While we're nitpicking... "it can’t technically be called a computer until you dock it on an external keyboard"

I came here with that exact quote copied, but expected to find it posted already

It's easy to forget that the 80s took us from Apple II, TRS-80, PET, via C64, Amiga, Atari ST and Macintosh to SuperVGA and 486 when we entered the 90s.

I did an absolute double take. The 1980s saw the emergence of personal computing. From niche hobby to ubiquitous agent of societal change.

RE "...since the 80s is not exactly known for great advances in personal computing....." There were great advances all the time in this era.

FROM https://www.computerhistory.org/brochures/1970s-early1980s/

"...The early 1980s saw the first mass market advertising of computers. Computers were available for personal use due to the diminishing costs of machines. However, manufacturers first had to convince people that they needed a computer in their home.

They made use of well-known celebrities as spokespersons: Dick Cavett for Apple; Bill Cosby for Texas Instruments; William Shatner for Commodore; Charlie Chaplin's "Little Tramp" for IBM; and Alan Alda for Atari.

Apple and IBM had some of the most successful campaigns during the decade. Apple aired its "1984" commercial during the Super Bowl, introducing an innovative personal computer to smash Orwellian competitors......"

Also in 1979 I build my own computer out of individually purchased components . a DREAM 6800. There was also numerous kits available. Massive innovation during that time

Slightly off topic but Seiko is probably my favorite watch brand period. It's hard to describe exactly why but if you look at other brands like say Rolex, Omega, Tag, etc, a big part of why people buy those is the prestige of that watch. Seiko on the other hand has virtually none of that prestige and you buy it simply because it's a freaking great watch. And with their sub-brand of Grand Seiko, you feel like you're in a special club wearing one of those because almost no one outside of watch people know what a GS is and even spending thousands you still feel like you pay for the technology (spring drive) versus just the prestige of "Grand Seiko". And they also make fantastic watches at the lower end, my first mechanical watch was a Seiko 5 which I got for ~$60. I've since given that one away to someone who got into watch collecting and I always recommend the Seiko 5 to anyone trying to get into watches.

That is true, I myself hadn't heard of Grand Seiko until I got into watches, I went to the Seiko museum in Tokyo and that was a really amazing experience.

I have the same feeling about Citizen watches, in particular the Eco-Drive models. Very well engineered, and most of them look great.

https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/mens/

My grandfather was a watchmaker and jeweler. He worked on mechanical watches ranging from the everyday to moderately high end. Despite this, he was as into gizmosity as you could possibly get.

He had a Casio Databank and would talk about how it was a calculator and could store phone numbers. The buttons on that thing were microscopic, and I can't imagine how it was actually worth the effort to program phone numbers into it or use it as a calculator. Nonetheless, he did. When the strap lugs broke, he fixed them with JB Weld. He usually had on two or three watches at any given time: his own, a customer's watch that he was testing after a repair, and that damned Casio, grey JB Weld and all.

I'm absolutely astonished that he didn't own one of these. It would have been right up his alley. If he was still alive, I'd call him and ask him about this. For that matter, I'd have loved to hear his take on the Apple Watch as well.

From a couple of years earlier, the Seiko TV watch (yes, wristwatch you could watch TV on):

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/no-longer-made-seiko-tv-watch-f...

Damn I wish Japan was still making cool tech, I loved their Aesthetic

They still do cool tech, every day

e.g. https://tokyoflash.com

I used to collect these until I got robbed and they stole my entire collection :(

What I mean is, Japan was not only producing cool looking tech, but it was actual "tech", like new things the world didn't have before. Remember Sony in the 90s?

Yeah I've always wondered what happened to Japan. They seem to have really fallen behind in consumer technology where they used to lead. Now the top consumer tech brands are Apple and Samsung, which are American and Korean brands. I think the move to "smart" technology was too different for the existing Japanese brands which pioneered single-purpose devices. Also Japan's economy suffered over the last 3 decades in which technology rapidly advanced.

It's sad because consumer technology today almost universally looks like shit as everyone tries to copy Apple's boring and uninspired designs

I like this documentary, I'm not sure if it's accurate, but whatever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnVP35uZFY

But also, I'm pretty in tune with the culture here, I'd say the current leadership is obviously quite old and so is the voting populace and the attitude is now, "Japan works good enough, it has worked, we were an economic super power and people seem to love coming here for holidays, so best not to change anything, we might become a economic super power again if we just maintain".

I find Japanese people are generally extremely risk adverse, so not changing things is the best way to avoid problems according to many people I've interacted with.

I'm 99% sure that's the sentiment and what's "wrong with it". It's not going that great for the economy but there is a fear instating a younger more progressive politician might be worse.

In the 80s and 90s, people were younger on average, people had money and so taking moon shots was fine.

I honestly think Japan is a wonderful place and the culture is fascinating, I think there is something to be said for their slowness to adopt new things too, it's not all bad. Their culture makes them be more "ok" with not being ontop economically IMO. I think patience is an important Japanese virtue which is why people here aren't just screaming for change. Japan is the kind of place where people keep money under their bed for an emergency.

Japan has been living in the year 2000 since the 1980s.

it is 1975, not 2000.

OMG, what a flashback. I remember buying a bunch of them for gifts on their physical store in Odaiba (I think) in 2006. Back them were almost cheap, at least there. I guess that around USD50.

I still have one, the JLr7 [0], that I really used for years back in the day. I have it with the original metal bracelet, but it seems like they've done a brief re-release of the watch this past spring but with a leather strap [1]. But they sold it at USD199 !

  0: http://bochup-japanwatch.blogspot.com/2006/12/jlr7-by-e35.html
  1: https://tokyoflash.com/collections/watch-museum/products/jlr7-led-watch

Nintendo Switch?

Casio watches?

Semi off-topic, but this site has auto-translate on. And reading an automatic translation of something without knowing, I will quite easily get the impression that the site authors are careless morons.

Have auto translate switched off if you value those visitors who actually read stuff, even if the metrics give it a 20% advantage.

> That sounds like something straight out of a scifi film since the 80s is not exactly known for great advances in personal computing.

That is jaw-droppingly ignorant. That's the decade that gave us the IBM PC, Apple Macintosh, Commodore 64, Amiga, ... the rise of online bulletin boards (BBSes). Communication speeds in consumer equipment going from 300 bps to past 9600. Graphics resolutions rising. Quality audio becoming available: from speakers connected to GPIO lines for square wave toggling, to 16 bit stereo samples at 44+ kHz sampling rates. Memory sizes, complexity of applications, ... games! Mass storage: from floppies to tiny hard disks (like the IBM PC/XT's 10 megger), to much larger disks. Home printing: dot matrix/daisywheel to laser. HP LaserJet: 1984; Apple LaserWriter: 1985.

> During the dawn of the computing age, western companies focused on making their hardware more powerful and more complex. This is how you got massive computers - it didn’t matter how big a computer became as long as it was more powerful than the last.

erm no, thats not true at all.

I sold one of these on eBay a while back, I bought it new in the 80s and only got it to work as expected once. The person I sold it too was able to get it working and said they are having a blast with it.

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