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> Someone at Samsung is really dropping the ball and I hope they're shown the door soon

Amen brother. It's astonishing to me that so much of what Apple creates is actually made by Samsung, and yet they constantly seem so far behind.

Have you seen their new 15" Ultrabooks though? They are awesome. 15" screen and weighs more than a pound less than the new MBP (obviously, with tradeoffs)

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP900X4B-A02US

Uhm, I couldn't find any 15" ultrabooks on their site, just a 14" one. Is that one of the tradeoffs you were talking about? Still a very nice machine!

The link is to a (supposedly) 15" model, even if the page title says 14". Specs do say 15".

Biggest tradeoff being the Samsung has a low voltage (slow) dual core vs a full speed quad core plus a massive GPU. I don't think we'll see anything much lighter than the Macbook just due to the need to vent the heat. It's considerably lighter than any other quad I know of.

Yes, they messed up the title. It is a 15" Ultrabook. I've seen it in person and it's fantastic. Obviously, it is more like a 15" MBA than a 15" MBP, but my point in posting the link is that Samsung seems to be doing some cool stuff.

My bet is Apple is paying them to create the components and gets a time frame to keep them for themselves before they can be generally available.

That or Samsung just doesn't care about being the first to the gate.

Do oter manufacturers except Panasonic cover spills? How is the machine milled MacBooks designed to fail at the first sign of trouble?

The batteries are actually designed to last for many years and pretty easy to replace with a screwdriver.

My MBP from 2008 is still going strong, and that's the less solidly built pre-unibody. Unlike many others, Apple extended the warranty because of the nVidia chipset bug.

I don't know about warranties for spills, but Thinkpads have a drain to greatly reduce liquid damage.

The last time I checked, most major manufacturers except Apple (Lenovo, Dell, HP, ...) let you buy Accidental Damage Protection (which does cover spills among many, many other things).

From what I hear, Apple can sometimes be nice about accidents, but other times they're sticklers about the rules.

Here in New Zealand we have The Consumer Guarantees Act. The beauty of it is that the item is covered for as long as a reasonable person would expect (or something like that), and is suitably vague about how long this. Here is a case where a 4 year old computer was repaired at the manufacturers expense. buying extended warranties is kind of a waste here, as complaing to a government agency may well get you the same result, for free (it has worked for me). http://www.consumerblogs.org.nz/tech/2009/04/squaring-up-to-...

"For some strange reason Apple has managed to put retina displays in their laptops before LG or Samsung"

There's nothing strange about this. Apple has been pushing very high resolution as a differentiator for 2 years now. They've made huge investments in new factories for Toshiba, Sharp and likely other display makers. They've signed huge contracts taking almost all the production from other vendors. It's not like tomorrow Samsung Mobile can say "shit tear up that $3 bln deal with Apple we want to make a 2880x1800 laptop now"

"Samsung really has the potential to be an industry leader."

The fast follower strategy has been ingrained into Samsung for what, decades? I don't see how it's frustrating to watch them execute the strategy they've been very successful with and I don't expect them to turn around and bet the farm on a new market leading approach.

I think the frustration is the fact that Samsung has all the ingredients needed for success, except courage. We could certainly do with a serious Apple competitor (in the US). However I think that fundamentally, Samsung cannot really change much. The Korean style of management, with strict adherence to hierarchy and deference to rank, may be the reason why the company can't market its own technologies (I'm completely speculating of course, but I have a strong feeling that this might be correct). Another reason may be that it is quite successful outside US. (e.g in India, Samsung == Apple in quality; that is the perception)

Agreed on the "perceived" quality. Based on my experiences, I'd bet money that if you compared a 3-year-old Thinkpad to a 3-year-old Mac, the Thinkpad would be in far better shape.

I'll have to disagree with you as I own both a 3 year old Thinkpad and a 2 year old Macbook Pro. The keyboard of my Thinkpad has been giving me problems for over a year, and I haven't had any problems with the keyboard on my Macbook.

It's funny that the people who make bets like this (that Macs are unreliable) are the ones who don't actually own them.

My Thinkpad is only a few years old, and the cooling system is acting up, I'm also having keyboard issues (even after replacing it) and just isn't worth bothering with. My old Macbook Pro on the other hand still practically runs like new, and never had to be repaired for anything.

I wish people wouldn't make claims based on speculation.

I wish people would be more specific when discussing this. "Only a few years old" and "old" can both cover a rather wide range, even if in this case "old" is capped at six years by the date of introduction of the model.

Oh well, my old Mac keyboard crapped out. And my Thinkpad's is fine. I reckon though the Thinkpad's would be cheaper to replace.

I realize this is anecdotal, but my 2009 macbook pro 13 is in great shape. Screen, battery, and keyboard are all great. I've watched the new macbook pros come out for 3 years now, and I have felt no serious desire to upgrade.

The only thing the newer macbooks would beat mine on would be games, and I just don't play very many. When I do its usually casual like Plants vs Zombies or whatever.

It's lasted longer and fared better than any other laptop I've owned (14" vostro, 13" inch vaio, 17" HP). It has simply been the best laptop I've every owned.

I have done upgrades, the best of which being an SSD. Without that, I'm sure I'd be feeling the pain of old hardware. I pulled the optical drive out and moved my mechanical drive to that bay for extra storage.

The casing has a few very minor nicks, and I did take it in to the apple store to get new rubber "feet" a few months back (under warranty).

I love my macbook pro. Someday I'll upgrade again, if the logic board gives out or something. Probably to a new macbook pro. Perhaps not though, the other manufacturers are catching up with their ultrabooks.

This laptop has been the first computer I've owned where I haven't felt like I was "fighting" with it to get work done.

The "retina" display is the first thing they've done that has me actually wanting to buy new hardware.

I've never used a Thinkpad, though, so I can't say whether it would have fared better or not.

> I've never used a Thinkpad, though, so I can't say whether it would have fared better or not.

Well... my 2006 T60p is in great shape. Original hard drive, battery only 14.7% down from its original capacity.

My 2004 X31 is still ticking and it's been through a lot. Zero problems with the electronics although to be fair I did upgrade the hard drive in 2007.

The t60 was the last model built when IBM still owned the laptop division. Spun off, Lenovo commoditized and did not keep up the QA. In my org, t60's were widely coveted, hand updated (ssd's, memory) and kept over newer offerings.

The latest T's and X's are better, but your average 60p has a better monitor than nearly all of the current tpad line.

T60ps were built by Lenovo and some outright carried the Lenovo badge. You could claim the design has gone downhill, but the build quality is Lenovo's.

Looking at the IPS-equipped X220 for my next laptop :)

More anecdotal evidence, but I have a 5 year old Thinkpad and a 5 year old Macbook. Guess what: both are going strong. Quality isn't exclusive to one manufacturer. I really dislike these either/or strawman arguments.

My macbook pro from 2008 survived a motorcycle accident and became accidental back armor. Still worked up until a few months ago until the mainboard went kaputt.

I'll rate that as damn good. Only damage was cosmetic other than that it was in great shape. I think you may be rating the macbook pro too low. I've seen people drop their thinkpad and having them go boom.

Yes yes anecdotal evidence blah blah. But I place a lot of props to that macbook pro surviving a motorcycle accident. Its been retired along with the helmet that saved me. Just my $0.02

In early March I was in Santa Clara for this year's PyCon. I took with me a white early 2006 Macbook which needed replacement for the bottom shell (it cracked and a piece fell off). Repair was to cost US$ 120, which I gladly approved. Since there was a recall replacement to be done, the replacement of the bottom case came at no cost. During the replacement, they damaged the cable connector for the keyboard, which was also replaced without cost.

In the end, I took a 6 year old computer to an Apple store and walked out with it looking more or less new, for free.

Apple's service is nothing short of amazing. I doubt IBM would have done that to your Thinkpad.

when the non-user-replaceable battery inevitably fails

Battery replacement is $99.

For some strange reason Apple has managed to put retina displays in their laptops before LG or Samsung (who probably manufacture those panels) manage to put them in their own laptops.

Windows probably doesn't support retina properly (which is sad, considering that MS has been working on retina support since Vista). Also, Apple may have outbid Samsung for the panels.

Samsung really has the potential to be an industry leader. They make everything.

Except software.

Also, Apple will replace the battery for you for between $100-$200:

http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/battery/

The actual quality is damn good, to me at least... I am still using a macbook pro as my daily that must be at least 6 or 7 years old now. (Intel core 2 duo) Maybe I am lucky, but it has been around the world with me many times, dropped and had 3 full glass spills into the keyboard. (2 were milk) BP size spills, as in, liquid was flowing out the back and the felt of the cd drive and also somehow the inside of the screen has stains. It still runs with no problems. I bumped up the ram and hard drive, and have been through 3 batteries. I have replaced the keyboard after one of the milk spills. The more we go through together, the harder it is to part... Retina screen sounds good tho.

I have two MacBook Pro's from 2007 which are still running strong. These are the 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo machines with 4 GB's of ram. They have been through a lot and I've had Apple fix various issues over the years on both of them, but disposable they are not.

I've replaced the batteries for them, actually, I've had Apple give me new batteries due to them failing early... but I've never had issues with Apple not servicing my laptop. They have dents in them, they have scratches from wear and tear, they have stickers all over them, but they still work extremely well. Still run the latest version of OS X, still run all of the software I use on a daily basis.

I used to own an iBook that I had purchased in 2004, an iBook G4, when I purchased my new MBP in 2007 I sold my iBook to my dad and he used it till 2010. The iBook is still up and running, it is simply too slow for my dads needs so he bought a new MacBook Pro and absolutely loves it.

This is basically a longwinded way of saying that I disagree with your assessment that they are disposable machines. The amount of life and longevity in a Mac are to be envied, and the way they hold their value even after a couple of years is simply awesome.

> the way they hold their value even after a couple of years is simply awesome.

Agreed -- I just sold my 2007 MBP and got enough back to buy a new iPad (retina version). That's more money than most brand new low-end Windows laptops go for (are there any non-low-end Windows laptops? I looked but couldn't find much from the major stores).

If you think about the original price that I paid (£1100) minus the sale price (£400), the total cost is really not that bad...

In the case of a spill it's most likely the case that something in your top case has been ruined. I had this happen to me on 2008 macbook that was otherwise fine. I looked into the used parts market and you can get a fine topcase for $50 and the install if pretty easy if you can use a screw driver. (I'm assuming the MBA is different in this regard, browsing around this seems to be the case)

Looking into it further at the time there's actually a good chunk of your macbook that you can fix yourself it's just not officially blessed by Apple

4 years ago, I spilled coffee on my MacBook. It started to act a little funky about detecting the battery, but otherwise worked fine. Since it was under (the extended Apple Care) warranty, and the Apple Store was a 20 minute drive away in Providence, I figured I 'd bring it by. They replaced the damaged logic board for me, gave me a refurbished battery (mine was down to ~70% capacity, unrelated to the spill), and then voided the warranty for any future repairs. I thought that was mighty fine of them, to be honest.

I'm still typing on it today. But man, those new retina MacBooks are tempting.

Regarding other manufacturers putting retina displays. While not quite retina level, ASUS did fire a preemptive strike against the MacBook Air, by releasing their UX21A and UX31A ultrabooks with 1920x1080 IPS displays. The UX21A 11.6" ppi is 189, not far from the new MacBook Pro 220 and perhaps more interestingly, now ASUS' ultrabooks have much better displays than the airs, with the 11.6" air being stuck at a measly 1366x768.

Measly for 11.6 inches? I'd say it's just perfect, if not a little too much.

Plus, unless you have an OS that can take advantage of it, higher resolution in a 11" ultrabook machine does not make sense.

I have a MBP from 2007 and an Acer Aspire netbook from 2007, both running relatively strong and I've taken both around the world in a backpack several times (often together).

What's gone wrong with them?

MBP - The case is full of dents, and the screen is starting to get dark. It's balls slow these days and Apple really doesn't want to support it anymore.

Netbook - it can't detect how much battery is left anymore, but otherwise seems fine. It's also balls slow, and there's not really a way to support it.

All that being said, replacing my netbook with something similarly priced will cost me $300-400 and get me a hell of a lot better piece of hardware. Replacing my MBP is going to cost me a pretty penny that I'm not looking forward to.

Note: I actually did "replace" my MBP with a Dell Studio a couple of years ago for about a thousand bucks and got a ridiculous amount of hardware for that price. It still looks almost new, but it "feels" cheap and fragile, even if it hasn't actually shown any wear and tear. My MBP on the other hand feels incredible, but has collected so many battle scars from fairly undramatic handling that I wonder if aluminum really is a good case material in the long run. The metal around one of the ports in the back is so buckled the port is no longer usable.

Note 2: It's interesting, being an East Coastie, that when I see MBPs it's usually young professionals at Starbucks or some such putting together business consulting slide decks or something. It's mildly unusual to see developer types out here with Macs (or see them with Macs not running Windows). I'm sure it's an effect of banking and government on the ecosystem. But it's almost always non-tech types using Macs here...usually as a response to having crappy corporate Windows XP/7 systems forced on them in their cubes at work.

Note 3: I'm not really a developer type, so personally I think Macs are "OK". I can see why West Coastie Web Startups use them. The Unixland is decent enough, the GUI is pretty good etc. For folks who want to do that kind of stuff the ecosystem is pretty nice.

For me, most of the stuff I want to do with a computer either isn't as good, doesn't exist, or is a second class citizen in the Mac world (it's mostly music composition, retrogaming, other entertainment) but is miles ahead in maturity and choices in the PC world. Portable software practices make lots of that go away when I'm stuck on my Mac and want to have some fun, but it still feels less mature than the Windows counterparts.

For business, almost none of my customers are using Macs, so I'm back into Windows land again.

It's frustrating, I'll sit down to really work with my Mac for a bit (and did for a few solid years), but find myself inevitably drawn back into Windows world to "just get shit done" in many cases.

Running Windows on an expensive MBP seems silly as the hardware seems to be about as durable, but the Windows machines are virtually disposable they're so cheap...and I couldn't care less about the feel of the machine.

I think changing work environments to a different kind of shop would probably offer me a better opportunity to stick with OS X, it's a kind of network effect.

But outside of some personal frustrations, I can see why either ecosystem would be a perfectly valid choice.