Well that's my point - people who do the work and create the wealth don't get that wealth in wages, it is parasitically expropriated by stockholders.
I am arguing on the side of those who work, that the wealth they create is kept by them. You argue for idleness and parasitism - that those who don't do the work can be rewarded via these various mechanisms, by being parasites on those who do work.
Business needs two other things:
1. capital
2. taking a risk
in order to function. To get capital requires a source of capital, which are investors. Investors take a risk in exchange for possible gain.
No gain => no investors => no capital => no business
Let's say you want to start a business. Where are you going to get the startup capital from?
You are only taking a significant risk in production investment in an unplanned economy.
So it is tautological, circular reasoning. Capitalists want an unplanned economy and then say they deserve their profits for the risks of an unplanned economy.
(Theroretically - of course, the US economy is not unplanned, but semi-planned - we type on chips paid for by US military spending sent to Fairchild, over IP packets on a network created by DARPA handing taxpayer money over to BBN etc.)
Any investment that is a "sure thing" is going to have a very low payoff. Sure things also tend to have a track record of imploding.
Without capital in this system labour can still provide value, it's harder, and slower but a group of people getting together and creating something is still possible (albeit much slower). Without labour capital has almost no value.
All of that has value and the only "capital" needed were the basic resources of some wood, food, and water, if you stretch the meaning of capital.
Capital cannot, ever, create value by itself, it has to come from labour. Capital can only help the process to be faster.
Even in a potential distant future where everything is made by machines, labour is required, just not human labour.
There's absolute no value from capital without labour.
Please, prove me wrong.
QED
Don't be an asshole, every single time I attempted to have a discussion on this topic with you you've been a dismissive asshole, instead of some of your more usual thoughtful comments you retract into this dogmatic stupidity.
Again: what can capital do without labour?