Leaked payroll data show how much Valve pays staff and how few people it employs
theverge.com
theverge.com
It might just be me, but that actually seems pretty reasonable.
What I've seen a lot is companies, during growth, accepting less-than-ideal candidates, maybe without a good onboarding, which then end up as deadweight in the worst case, and underperformers in the best case.
This, combined with a tendency to keep people around who have been there a long time, and the people themselves knowing they're not going to be let go, could result in massive companies and hundreds of people per product.
Yes steam is big, but it's not a product so complex you'd need over 100 people to maintain it. I assume other companies need so many people because tasks don't get done, and the logical step is to add people, not remove people.
Staying lean means staying agile (in some definition of the word), and that can speed you up.
I dunno, I think Steam is pretty complex:
- The steam store (credit card processing, optimizing search, review bombs, gift buying, features around various ways to hide games you've purchased, marketplace)
- Workshop (Uploading, managing people's subscriptions, SDKs)
- Cloud Saves
- Remote Play, works remotely without any port mapping (so they're running a service for that) (clients for macOS, Windows, iOS/iPadOS/tvOS, Android)
- Controller Mapping (DualShock 4, Dual Sense, various Nintendo Controllers, Xbox controllers, pretty intense UI)
- New Video Recording with SDK for games to integrate with
- Friends / Chat
- Broadcasting games
- The client itself, for Windows, macOS, Linux)
And a whole lot more (forums, profile customization, guides)
One thing Valve seems to understand better than most big tech companies is that once a product/feature is done, you don't need the same size team to maintain it. A lot of parts of Steam have been functionally unchanged for the last few years and just... keep working. The people who worked on Cloud Saves have presumably moved on to something else, instead of entering a Google-esque cycle of pointless Cloud Saves feature launches and deprecations.
My objection was to the phrase "Steam is not complex", which I guess wasn't the posters point.
Steam is another data point that convinces me that public ownership of companies leads to quick and ruthless enshitification and that growth is only a good metric in specific contexts.
The other has to deal with the possibility of humans using their app as an assault or kidnapping mechanism; from either end (rider attacking driver; driver kidnapping passenger, etc.)
Very different levels of responsibility. This can be seen, for example, by the size of Lyft and Uber’s security teams.
their lobbying team is probably larger than this one.
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary...
"Admin" is less than "Games" in every year.
This is the programmer’s fault, not the user’s.
It’s not a huge bar either. If the user has set a background color to solid black, and is filling black text with it, the intent is pretty obvious.
But can you tell me your favorite open-source PDF reader on Linux is immune?
(Edit, because some people miss the point and just want to be pedantic: an editor.)
I know no os that changes the format of an image when a user changes the file extension, for example, which is a pretty similar situation.
(how bad UIs are is generally an insult to all the amazing engineering behind them)
I once had an internal customer open an on call event to ask why one of their machines was running so slowly. I said "it's because one of the DIMMs has thrown about 30,000 correctable errors within the past month". I was able to correlate that by mapping the EDAC label for the DIMM recorded in /var/log/messages and some gzipped archives of the aforementioned log file.
Of course I deal with CPU, memory, motherboards, GPUs, add-on NICs (OCP or PCIe), storage controllers (HBAs mostly, some RAID controllers), BMCs, and of course I also have to evaluate the link width of PCIe bridges interconnecting all the PCIe devices.
It has a very low barrier to entry for devs and a permissive DRM compared to other stores. A powerful review system and a return policy better than anyone else I've seen so far. Very community friendly and has an entire feature dedicated to hosting user mods and creations. Right now they're wasting money on VR just because they can
Is it a monopoly when no one else is able to compete even on the technical side?
Steam is 20 years in the making, so it is very hard to catch up with them. If you want to compete, you need to offer something different.
Assuming they can get their game discovered via some sort of non-store channel (e.g. Reddit, social media, YouTube, Twitch, ads, etc.), the user can simply search the web for the game, find the website, click "buy" and proceed.
Probably a bit more work than publishing on Steam but not that much. Seems worth it for large budget games or games that are very popular in a specific niche discoverable outside Steam.
It's not that easy; Steam brings down dramatically complexity of self distributing and it offers a plenty of Web 2.0 features e.g. reviews, discussions forum, connecting with friends, playing with friends, chatting with friends etc.
It's like asking why Amazon exists when sellers can have their own store page and distribution channel....
Some games that I know that are popular and not on Steam are for example Starsector and Escape from Tarkov. Game devs choose not to publish their game on Steam either because their game is not finished and they do not want to get negative reviewed to the ground and/or they think their game's brand is so strong that they do not want to pay 30% tax to Steam. For example Minecraft most likely wasn't on Steam because of aforementioned reasons.
(Or at least were, these days I don't think they are much more than Steam keys resellers ?)
And the Workshop and Steam MP might be very convenient for some, but are walled garden features that ought to be boycotted.
P.S.: More of a monopsony than a monopoly :
https://medium.com/@KingFrostFive/steam-monopoly-monopsony-4...
Though I guess that's now probably what Battle.net is ?
Microsoft also supports streaming, both cloud streaming and locally from an Xbox.
Yeah, I agree that Games for Windows Live was a joke. But Microsoft today is certainly capable of bringing competition, with the right leadership.
It's interesting there isn't a well-known real competitor to Steam (the Blizzard and Ubisoft stores, etc, don't count, because so few external parties publish there).
My gut says the lack of reinvestment could be someone else's opportunity, especially considering many of the longstanding VAC and other quality issues which have persisted on Steam's platform for more than 15 years. However, because of all the necessary catch-up, such an enterprise would be tricky to bootstrap and get to critical mass. Even then, where is the moat?
For what it's worth, I have the exact same feelings. They provide so much value on-top of just being a store, and it does feel like they take the money and re-invest it into their ecosystem to make it better.
They made gaming on Linux as easy as gaming on windows. They improved the controller situation in games. They do the whole remote-play stuff so you can play local-coop games online. They do the family sharing stuff. They do the steam link stuff. And they don't lock any of it down to their first party offerings. e.g.
* They could have easily made steamlink only work with their set-top box, but they just made it an android app.
* They could have limited the controller bindings and tech to only their controller, but they made it work for all controllers.
* They could have forced you to use their VR headset with steam, but they let you use any headset.
I can't think of any other company off the top of my head that has done something similar.
To play a game, select it on the store, pay (with all sorts of payment options), download (from damn fast servers), and press play, that's all. The game sucks or crash, click a button and you are refunded, no need to be always online just for DRM check (eventually you'll need internet, but you have enough leeway so that it is rarely a problem), ads are very unobtrusive and maybe even desirable (suggesting games you may actually like or announcing sales), they don't usually force an update just before you want to play a game (a much too common occurrence), dark patterns kept to a minimum (or at least subtle enough), generally good software quality (in terms of bugs, broken UI/UX, etc...). You bought a game, it stays in your account, Steam has 20 years of history of not screwing you, and to play it, just install Steam on any PC (it it doesn't already have it), log in to your account, download and play, it is that easy. You can even share games (with some reasonable limitations).
Others just have some annoyance here and there. Some always-on DRM, bugs, dubious UI choices, annoying ads, etc... Only Valve seems to understand the importance of not getting in the way between gamers and their games and do the appropriate amount of effort (which is a lot). Not even in the name of profit, because they understand that it is not worth it, if gamers are satisfied, profits will come. Remember, they have piracy as a competitor, and it is hard to compromise against such a powerful competitor.
They perceive the Steam launcher as something positive that provides them convenience. The network effect also makes it hard for game companies not not be on Steam, allowing Valve to enforce some customer-friendly policies like refunds, further making the platform nice to use.
Epic is trying to break through this by giving away endless free games. All other stores are generally forced upon the player through exclusives (you buy the game on Steam, but you still have to install their shitty launcher-store because the parent company owning the game wants some of the store-platform cake), breeding resentment and further cementing Steam's position.
(GOG being an exception, but they don't have enough major/interesting games to get players to use them as their primary platform.)
p.s. thanks so much for hnreplies.com, Dan! It dramatically increased the utility of HN for me. Your creation is fantastic.
pay. download. run in dosbox or something. done.
steam is just a crap I refuse to put up with. and that's the store. imagine the drm.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_to_run_steam_games_off...
Knowing that a not insignificant part of the thousands I've spent on Steam over the years went to fund that.. isn't a great feeling.
Have you actually looked at the numbers or are you just parroting memes? In the numbers I'm looking at some divisions are $1M per employee.
The problem is that Steam for all its faults is DRM, anti-cheat, and a well functioning store rolled all in one. Most of the alternate stores are bad in one way or another; Epic launched without a cart, and it still doesn’t have user text reviews. Itch had to redo its whole UI after that one bundle they did that had thousands of games in it.
Notably Valve doesn’t really use its position to make competing games. This is an unknown for most publishers, and Epic pretty blatantly pivoted Fortnite to eat PUBG’s lunch after working with them.
If anything the leading platform for competition as an indie store is the Nintendo eShop. Which is probably why the Steam Deck exists.
How is Epic a serious competitor or alternative, then?
Imo Epic is the only competitor to Steam that tries to offer a similar service to Steam. It's just popular to hate on it among pc gamers.
Many people cite a lack of features on Epic's store as the reason, eg no forum feature, but then turn around and decry Steam forums as the worst place on the internet. I don't think the problem is a lack of features (for players, devs have a point), but rather the Epic Games Store isn't cool enough.
Now, once you open Epic you can ignore it, use Explorer open the game folders and launch the games and they run. So it looks like they literally need a way to change a config file to avoid re-downloading 100s of GB of games.
I find it literally crazy. They even scatter .egstore files around so actually scanning for and adding games to the library automatically should be easy.
Steam makes the same task easy, and why wouldn't it it's pretty rudimentary for an installer/launcher to have a easy way for you to tell it where your downloaded games are.
Oh, and the instructions for reinstalling Epic _launcher_ say to just re- download all your games. They're insane.
YMMV.
Steam for example, allows user submitted ratings with explainer text. This is huge for online shopping decisions.
Steam Workshop is easy to integrate mod distribution for games. Etc.
I don't know anyone who actually relies on Steam ratings/reviews to make purchasing decisions. I've always assumed that rating systems on the platform that is selling you the product are not trustworthy. But then again, I find reviews for media to generally be useless.
>Steam Workshop is easy to integrate mod distribution for games.
That's a developer feature rather than a player one though.
Steam also has the features to do social proof of reviews. The reviews contain metadata about if the person got the game for free, and if you click the profile associated with it, you can see all the games a user has played and their achievement progress, which can help signal if they are a real gamer, how far they've gotten in the game they reviewed, but also how far they get in other games they've played to check that they're not a sock puppet.
This has enough value that Epic displays a star rating that is allegedly user generated, but because it doesn't indicate who is doing the reviews, and there is no text, their star rating is a lot more suspect.
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Modding support is also a player feature. Official, well supported modding can make or break a game, and Steam facilitates quite a lot in that regard; Nexus, as an alternative, is ad supported and caps download speeds for mods unless you shell out for a premium membership.
Arguably, it requires an account, and has things like "number of hours played" included in the review.
Far, far more useful than the easily-gamed spam reviews on places like Amazon. Doesn't mean spammy things can't happen, and the aggregate reviews on Steam usually mean what the 14-24 year old demo think
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Valve_games
[1] Random article about it: https://gamerant.com/deadlock-gameplay-footage-valve-leak-6v... .
[2] DOTA's had massive patches recently, including adding a new attribute, expanding the map, and redoing every hero to have innate abilities and a choice of passive effects. They've also been adding some pretty big PvE/external content events between Aghanim's Labyrinth and the current Crownfall battle pass (which just added a surprisingly fleshed out fighting game mini-game).
Ironically, Dota 2 would benefit as a game if they STOPPED developing it and focused just on stability of the game, but alas.
That still leaves DOTA, Artifact and Half Life: Alyx without any proper source code, but the stuff people actually care about has mostly been freed.