The only tourist in Moldova | Hacker News Reader

The only tourist in Moldova

telegraph.co.uk

151 pointsdotcoma391 comments

"Sergiu exuberantly offers up shot glasses of mulberry vodka, pine-needle vodka, strawberry vodka, “medicine” vodka, “78 per cent proof” vodka"

Although Moldova has vodka-drinking Slavs in it, the beverages described are not vodkas. Vodka is made of cereals or potatoes, whereas these are nicer-flavored, fruit-based distilled beverages that locals call "rakiu", in English it would be schnapps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnapps

These are often described as vodkas in practice, even if they technically aren't. Applies to other eastern Europe products too. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B3dka_%C5%BBo%C5%82%C4%85... is fruit/herb based, but is commonly known as vodka and even was labelled as such.

I am a Croat and no, we dont describe them as Vodka, nor are we aware that people call them Vodka.

The beverage you linked is not rakija, and it’s not even similar.

Rakija is made from grapes, Vodka from potatoes. We don’t have enough potatoes to throw away

Specifically in Polish "wódka" (vodka) historically could describe any alcohol-based fluid, be it drinks, perfume or topical medication, so I guess it's this broader term that's used here.

Etymologically, "vodka" (and its various, mostly Slavic, cognates) means "little water".

Similarly, whiskey means "water of life". Alchemists had aqua vitae, in Latin, with the same meaning, and the French eau-de-vie.

<https://www.etymonline.com/word/vodka>

<https://www.etymonline.com/word/whiskey>

I thought Loza was made from grapes, whereas Rakija is made from plums, peaches, apples, etc, being the Ex-Yugoland analog to Pálinka in Hungary.

Is it different just in Croatia, or am I otherwise misinformed?

Interestingly but central Asia it is called Arak. Same root.

It's somewhat confusing since there are a lot of things based on the Arabic / Persian word arak (arak, raki, rakı, rakija, etc.) but they're not all that closely related drinks.

"Rakija" would usually be translated as "fruit brandy" (but also overlaps with grappa, and then there are Croatian varieties which throw a lot of herbs and flowers in there) whereas arak, rakı and friends are most in the category of pasties, ouzo and sambuca in their flavoring. Confusingly, the Cretan raki is grappa.

The other confusing thing is that most of these words (schnapps, vodka, arak, rakija) are generic words for distillates, not indicative of a style. Vodka can be made of almost anything, but in contrast to other styles, its heavy filtering and purification (basically leaving not much but ethanol and water) is what makes it "vodka", and where I'm skeptical that the Moldovan booze meets that description.

This is only true in those parts of Eastern Europe were "vodka" retained its (old) colloquial use from Polish. So... Poland and maybe some parts of Ukraine, Slovakia etc.. If there are parts of Moldova where these drinks would be called "vodka", I haven't been to them yet :-).

The local generic term for an alcoholic drink is different, but "vodka" is specifically used only for things that say "vodka" on the label pretty much everywhere between the Tatra Mountains and the Mediterranean.

Definitely not called vodka in Slovakia nor Czech republic unless its precisely that, using it in such way would show lack of pretty basic local knowledge (since alcohol use permeated much of the society).

Neither has the taste nor smell any resemblance with vodka, usually much higher quality drink compared to standard vodka (ie from plums you smell and taste plums very intensively, and its 100% from just the fruit, no marketing tricks). Also usually around 50-57% alcohol content compared to 38-40% of usual vodka. Each drink has their own name based on fruit its distilled from, plums are easiest and most common to make due to generous fermenting window and high sugar content of the fruit.

The tradition to make it at home is pretty strong for those who have gardens/houses with such trees, and those home products are of much higher taste quality than anything you can buy in any shop (once western world discover this I expect prices will skyrocket and move it into 'artisanal' category, how can anybody be satisfied with just good quality bland vodka is beyond me). It means given person collected fruits, let them ferment for very precise time for given fruit in vats, and then took it to local certified distillery, no blinding self-made moonshine which is a tool of desperate and very poor.

>Definitely not called vodka in Slovakia nor Czech republic unless its precisely that, using it in such way would show lack of pretty basic local knowledge (since alcohol use permeated much of the society).

I can confirm this. When I lived in the Czech Republic I knew a local who made his own plum schnapps. He explicitly called it slivovice (and schnapps when I asked for the English name), not vodka.

Oh, yeah, hence the "maybe". I've never heard "vodka" used as a generic term for alcoholic liquids anywhere except in Poland, and even there rather rarely.

Rakı is deceptively strong, especially the Cretan version, from which I am proud to have recovered.

It's also important to distinguish between the "Balkan" rachiu/rakija/whatever (which can be distilled from several types of fruit and isn't further processed) and the Turkish/Greek raki/ouzo (which is distilled from grape pomace, flavored with aniseed and generally drunken with water, which gives it a characteristic cloudiness - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rak%C4%B1).

Traditionally, Greek Ouzo is mized with just ice (at least that's what my Greek friends thought me), Turkish Rakı is mixed with water and ice. In some cycles though, drinking Rakı without ice/water is a party trick (it's very bitter and strong so a very unpleasant experience - not everyone can do it).

Source: I'm originally from West Turkey.

All Izmirian's I know told me that it is okay to drink with water, but they would never do :) So I always drink pure. I quite like the taste.

Croatian (Balkan) Rakija is more like Greek Tsipouro. It is very easy to mistake though, since the names are so similar. Plenty of bulgarian tourists have been disappointed to get a totally different tasting alchohol from what they were expecting.

The Creatan stuff is raki, not rakı. Both the pronunciation (ı is 'uh') and beverage are different. Rakı is the basically the same drink as ouzo or pastis. Raki is the same as grappa.

In most of Ukraine that would be called "samohon", which can be translated as "self-brewed" and is an umbrella term for a bunch of liquors similar to those described in the article. Vodka (or "horilka" how it's known in Ukrainian) is a specific drink that's mostly ethanol and does not include any supplements.

I’m guessing it’s actually răchie from pine cones, not needles. Either way, now I’m curious to try it.

Drinks made out of pine needles are pretty common. They have a very distinct nice taste.

Small soft pine cones are also used for jams and flavored liquors.

also try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borovi%C4%8Dka

The difference between gin and borovicka is that gin is usually a neutral tasting alcohol that gets the juniper berries macerated in them, but borovicka is vapor infused during the distilling process.

One of my favourites is https://www.zufanek.cz/en/product/borovicka-juniper-spirit/

"rachiu" in Romanian/Moldovan is brandy in English.

From the Wikipedia page for "schnapps": "Schnapps or schnaps is a type of alcoholic beverage that may take several forms, including distilled fruit brandies, ..."

Those drinking ракия know that it’s not a brandy, although it can be made to resemble brandy or even in the image of some whiskeys but is essentially made from completely different produce, and usually also process.

Moldovan/Romanian is not written with cyrillics, "rachiu" is the proper spelling.

In russia everything is vodka. Sometimes this overflow to english. In europe it is kore distinguished.

Since what Moldova is Russia? Am I on reddit or 4chan?

Since history is a thing? Beside being part of the USSR, part of Moldova has also been in the Russian empire. Also a good portion of the population identifies as Russian.

"History" might be a thing but Moldova has not been part of the USSR for more than 30 years now, and has been part of the Russian Empire for only about a hundred years (after the peace of 1812 and until shortly after the first World War). It was one of the shortest-lived imperial possessions.

> Also a good portion of the population identifies as Russian.

Said "good portion" is about 4%, according to the latest census [1]. Balti is the only municipality with a substantial Russian population. USSR politics means that much of the Moldavian population speaks Russian (tl;dr you had to learn it at school and were generally forced to use it in any public setting) but only a small minority of the Moldavian population "identifies" as Russian.

Pre-emptive "but ackshually": 1. nothing wrong with identifying as Russian, this is a comment on population statistics 2. the census was conducted the same year that a pro-Russian administration was voted into power so yes, the statistics are perfectly representative, no one had second thoughts about saying they were Russian.

1. https://statistica.gov.md/en/population-and-housing-census-i... .

The south of Italy still has leftovers of Arabic cultural influence from the Arab occupation in the VIII century. That lasted about 300 years but we're talking about a millenium ago, so it's perfectly reasonable to consider Moldova as culturally influenced by Russia, even if just for the geographical proximity.

People not born in ex-USSR countries will not understand these statements, especially today.

There are many countries where Russian is spoken as a language and when people identify as "russian" it is mostly the traditions and history. It has nothing to do with geopolitics.

It is language, religion, family values, holidays, food, celebrations, traditions, etc.... This is what is meant by identifying as Russian.

...and before that was part of Romania, and the reason 80% of the country speaks Romanian.

Let's tamper down with the Russian imperialism. We see how well that's been going in Ukraine and the Baltics.

Let's tamper down with the American imperialism. We see how well that's been going in Ukraine and the Baltics.

that same kind of thinking encouraged Russia to go on a 3-day march on Kyiv. Ask an average participant of that march how that has gone for them. Oh wait

Historical facts are not "thinking". I don't get your snark to be honest. These Russians, are they in the room with us right now?

Hmmm, you woke up a lot of former Soviet Bloc demons there.

Moldova isn't Russia, but has a sizeable Russian-speaking minority concentrated in a generally non-recognized separatist state of Transnistria. This minority is mostly Putin-oriented and despises the West and anything Western-related.

Until/unless Russian imperial intents are defeated or collapse on their own, the risk of Russia reabsorbing parts or whole of Moldova stays real, though mostly contingent on defeating and reabsorbing Ukraine first.

There are many countries where Russian is spoken as a language and when people identify as "Russian" it is mostly the traditions and history. It has nothing to do with geopolitics.

It is language, religion, family values, holidays, food, celebrations, traditions, etc.... This is what is meant by identifying as Russian.

There are people proud to say they have this heritage, it doesn't mean you are a Putin lover and want to recapture the former USSR.

> It is language, religion, family values, holidays, food, celebrations, traditions, etc.... This is what is meant by identifying as Russian.

Complete BS. The only people in Moldova/Romania that identify as Russian are Russians or Putin sympathizers. And this is also true of most other former soviets I've met . No one is "proud" of having been colonized by the USSR. Source: am Moldovan.

The Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic was a constituent republic of the USSR from 1945 until 1990.

These are most definitely not vodka in Russia.

78% or 78 degrees proof? They are different measures in different places.

Slivovitz, for instance, is typically 70% alcohol. Proof spirit (100 proof) in the UK is 57.06% alcohol by volume, in the US and Australia it is 50%, in France Gay-Lussac defined proof degree and percent alcohol by volume to be the same.

See https://www.britannica.com/story/why-is-alcohol-measured-by-...

> 78% or 78 degrees proof?

It's always percent ABV (alcohol by volume). As you can see in this table, typical values for rakia (rachiu in Romanian) are 40–86% ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume ).

Degrees proof is a term originating in English tax law where the drink catching fire was deemed 100 proof. But it's only used in the US now.

Yikes, where do they drink 70% Slivovitz?

A fairly strong one is 42%, same with most other alcohols, even grappa. I’ve had 60% and it was distinctly unpleasant, felt like something you’d drink on a dare instead of for pleasure.

> Yikes, where do they drink 70% Slivovitz?

I'd be surprised if the stuff some of my relatives used to distill in Croatia would have less than that lol.

In my experience virtually everyone from the Balkans knows someone who distills themselves or knows someone who does. In my alcohol closet there's like six distinct Slivos from all over South/Eastern Europe. Homemade, of course, and you absolutely do not want to drink more than 2cl... not because of possible methanol but because this stuff will absolutely get you wasted in no time at all.

Come to think of it, the worst hangover of my life was on Hvar.

Where I usually go in the Balkans -- Vojvodina area, if that even counts as Balkan -- the homemade stuff isn't that much stronger than the store-bought. Probably a little, but you end up drinking half a liter of the stuff in a good night, so it can't be much over 40.

Slivovitza and other fruit spirits go from 50 to 60 % usually. Depending how much you dilute it. Pure is higher, but it not nice to drink.

Rakiya is closer, no? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakia

They will also not be considered vodka in Russia, rather 'nastoika'.

Not exactly. Nastoikas are vodkas and other similar strong spirits infused with different aromas after distillation. You could buy a vodka bottle from the store and make a nastika at home from it.

Rakia is a strong spirit which is distilled from a different base than vodka. Whereas vodka is distilled from grains, rakia is distilled from fruit. You could also do a nastoika from rakia, I suppose.

Yes, not the same, but it's very likely that "pine-needle vodka" from the article was indeed a nastoika.

The rakia was only mentioned here in comments, not in the original article.

You can absolutely make one, and very popular is the rakia infusion with Rodiola, which is adaptogen itself.

Central Asia still remains largely untouristed. I loved this article from the New York Times concerning a boy who taught himself Russian and then went to Kazakhstan with his father to immerse himself.

The Foreign Language That Changed My Teenage Son’s Life https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/17/magazine/russian-language...

Central Asia (where I actually live) does not have much to see, esp. Kazakhstan. The main tourist destinations are historical monuments in Uzbekistan which has huge tourist influx lately (every time I am in Uzbekistan I see a good deal of tourists around hotels). Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan have beautiful mountains, nature. Kazakhstan is bit dull post-Soviet place, Almaty resembles more some city in Eastern Europe than Asia.

> Central Asia (where I actually live) does not have much to see, esp. Kazakhstan

I think this is the "I live here" bias. I've hit most stans, each is unique and worth a visit in their own ways, but I give you that a random snapshot from Almaty could have been taken anywhere in the USSR.

Almaty has nice mountains to see actually, but some seriously problematic neighborhoods and high crime.

We had a Turkmen exchange student a few years ago and her family has asked to Turkmenistan several times but we haven't taken them up on the offer. It does seem like an extremely unique place.

This was an incredible article. Thanks for sharing!

Beautiful story, thanks for the link.

Wonderful read, thanks for posting!

People go to Chisinău, and that’s kinda it, and it’s really not representative of Moldova as a whole.

You cross the border from Romania, and you’re immediately struck by the road turning to cobbles, and the modern street lamps turning into gas lamps. Ox carts bearing peasants in home-sewn clothes trundle by under their burden of hay. A rusted old lada serves as a roadside goose coop. Wattle and daub houses stoop by the dusty road, old men in flat caps sat on a bench by the roses climbing the crumbling wall. It’s like the most remote and rural corners of Transylvania, and then some - it’s still 1924 out there.

The cities - unremarkable, Soviet slop with the usual fistful of monuments and bits of history - but the countryside is the most authentic time warp I have experienced in Europe, and I have been to most of Europe.

Gas lamps? Ox carts (did you mean donkey or horse)? Home-sewn clothes?

I'm not sure what year you visited, but none of these are common. At least that's my experience of living there for 25 years and having been in most parts of Moldova.

Have you been outside the capital in Albania? I visited Tirana and was quite surprised (pleasantly) but didn't have time to adventure further

I visited Tirana and Durrës about 5 years ago. Durrës was a pretty great place to visit with its long beach, views of the Adriatic, decent restaurants, roman & other ruins and a nice archeological museum. Certainly more touristy than Tirana, but at least back then it was mostly locals.

The Albanian Alps are beautiful, and rapidly developing with brand new roads and other infrastructure.

> and the modern street lamps turning into gas lamps.

Really? Gas lamps are usually the luxurious option, only maintained at great expense out of nostalgia; Moldova has almost no domestic gas production.

Oh, I didn’t say they work - but yeah, they had a good bit of money a century ago and invested in modern infrastructure - and not a jot since in an awful lot of the regions.

Can't help but think at 2850 pounds (3650 USD) for 7 nights of course they are going to be friendly.

Yeah, it's quite an exorbitant price for the trip described. It said flights included which I have to hope is the majority of it.

Considering you can fly from London to Chișinău for around £36 at present ($45) on a low cost EU airline, then it probably isn't. The Telegraph is a right leaning newspaper for a wealthy readership, so their travel articles offer luxury. (The details of the holiday provider mention 4 star hotels.)

Plenty of indie travellers potter around in Eastern Europe via flight hops or train, and could spend a similar amount for a whole summer's travel.

It's the Torygraph. Only really read by people rich enough to blow that sort of money on a trip to [checks notes] Moldova.

There's quite a big difference between a tourist visiting a provincial home with a personal assistant, and a tourist visiting a provincial home who is greeted with “Here, axe, chop wood, we cook dinner”.

This would fit maybe in 2019, but Moldova now has many foreigners. Hotel prices went up considerably!

For "Europe's least visited country" try Belorus, Ukraine, Russia, Ossetia or Armenia.

Traveling to Mariupol as a tourist is the real deal in 2024

Every time I've been to Armenia there are many people visiting, although I think probably 80%+ are diaspora or descendants of diaspora folks

edit to add -- not sure Ossetia is technically a country... the Georgians might quibble with you on that one

Went to a hotel lobby bar once and asked guys sitting to the left and to the right of me where are they from. Turns out both were Scots. Asked them what do they think about Scottish independence. One thing led to another and soon enough they started fist-fighting each other. Armenian cognac is great.

Obviously no true Scotsman would do such things.

I should remind you that the Scottish character can be summed up by the simple observation that Scotland is the only country whose national dress includes a knife in the sock.

Damn Scots, they ruined Scotland!

https://youtu.be/i2q0T7QXETs

>soon enough they started fist-fighting each other

Never change Scotland.

The Georgians and the other 187 UN member states that don't recognize either South Ossetia or Abkhazia.

I think it's obvious that unrecognized states are hot contenders for "least visited".

For starters your travel insurance might not cover you there.

> Traveling to Mariupol as a tourist is the real deal in 2024

except you'll be on occupied territory and will be breaking Ukrainian law, you might get a prison sentence if you ever go to Ukraine again

How would they ever know if you won't outright tell them yourself (like being a famous person an posting your itinerary on the instagram)? They'll see you've been to Russia, if you use the same passport for both visas, which may be frowned upon right now, but not illegal. But which Russian cities you've been to (and de-facto Mariupol is just that right now) — who the hell knows?

That's pretty easy: you cross the border, the border guard sees recent stamp showing you traveled to r---ia and you don't fit the profile of someone having a family there, which trip the alarm to look into you slightly more than usual (in normal days the only thing border guards do is check that passport is not forged).

Then the obvious question to "where you exactly you have been there and what for" will come out unexpectedly for you and you will start making up a bullshit story on the spot (after being on the road for the last whole day) and spit out enough signals to look into you even more.

At this point you are taken to a room for a talk and asked to show pictures in your phone, hotel confirmations, train tickets, etc, which obviously show you have been where you are not supposed to and you lying as well. If you panic and refuse to show the phone contents, you are likely just barred from entrance on the spot and put on a list. If you do show the phone contents and there isn't anything noteworthy, but your story is not coherent enough (or the opposite: coherent enough to the point you prepared for it), you get at date with a three letter agency who is supposed to not rely on feelings.

The "how do they know" is always a bad idea as long as people need to know and your actions leave extensive digital papertrail.

That's ridiculously stretched. Russia is huge. Plenty of choice of "where you've been to". And you absolutely don't have to answer anything about where you've been to in Russia, because it's actually not their fucking business. Worst they can do is not let you into Ukraine. Surely, theoretically they can illegally arrest you, and torture you, and whatever, but doing that to a USA citizen (or whoever you are) on a basis of slight suspicion you could've been in Crimea or some other territory they consider theirs inside of Russia, well, that's risking way more than you do.

Plenty of people have two passports for this reason.

Lots of things in immigration require you to honestly self-report and have no mechanism to validate at the point-of-entry. For instance, many countries without visa requirements will still ask about criminal records in your native country, but have no access to the data to verify if you tell them you've never even had a parking ticket.

But if you get caught later down the line, then they are going to use your lies to make life very hard for you.

Using two passports is not always the solution. As a dual citizen of two countries, I also have two passports. A couple of years ago I travelled to Malta with the passport from the country I currently live in. One week later I flew over to Israel, where I used the passport of my birth country. I was extensively interrogated at the border, because apparently the system flagged me to the border officer as there was no record of me entering Malta with the passport I attempted to leave the country with.

Just to clarify, a prison sentence doesn't actually mean you'd be incarcerated, Russia for example routinely sentences foreign nationals to prison without the means to getting them arrested

Is there really any chance they are going to hand out prison sentences to foreigners who have visited as a tourist?

But legallity, politics and bad taste aside, it just seems a dangerous place to visit. It wasn't long ago that an Ukrainian missile was shot down over Crimea which ended falling down on a beach in Sevastopol and killing 4 people.

Nope. If they acknowledge you've been on 'occupied' territories, they will reject entry and prohibit it for 3-5 years.

You get similar treatment with an Israeli stamp in your passport if you go to many Muslim countries, not that they will actually stamp your passport anymore. Cuba and DPRK will also avoid stamping your passport for similar reasons with respect to American sanctions (no idea bout Iran).

Mariupol is now de-facto Russian territory (it is administered/occupied by Russians) and you would need to either go from Russian side or cross the frontline.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

> Traveling to Mariupol as a tourist is the real deal in 2024

Don't. It's impossible to do from the Ukrainian side and illegal from Russia.

Also, from the practical side you don't want to accidentally find the leftover mines.

Illegal? Why?

You're entering Ukraine without passing their immigration

On the contrary, if you pretend to be an idiot, and ask some Russian government-affiliated NGO “helping Donbass” if you can have a look yourself to be “free from Western propaganda”, I am sure they can pretend to get some positive publicity that way, and add you to this or that group of journalists and government officials who are shown Potemkin reconstruction (on a guided tour in presence of totally not plainclothes agents).

But I don't see any point in doing that. If you follow the timeless advice of Egor Letov, and read some North Korean or Soviet books, you would know everything that is going to be said. Why waste time watching someone perform the stupid play?

There are tons of foreigners in Armenia from all over. Including a metric ton of Russians who don't want to be drafted.

I have a Russian friend who is adamant that I would really enjoy and have a great time in Russia. IIRC he tells me to go to St Pete more than Moscow.

But I cannot imagine doing that as an American. It kind of makes me wonder if he's messing with me but he hates Russia and Putin and I don't know why he would. I feel like I would be so unsafe. I'm a very "American" looking person and I only know a handful of Russian words. Well, I guess I look more German, blonde/blue eyed.

Maybe just very different apprehensions when it comes to travel. He seems to be willing to go to literally anywhere.

Ironically I always expect an American to start shit with him when I'm out drinking with him so I sometimes deviate conversations away from him having to talk about being Russian at every bar we're at. He's only been in America a few years so as soon as he speaks the entire bar knows he's Russian.

If you go to russia there is a chance of you being arrested on made-up charge just to be used as exchange fund for russian spies or arm dealers arrested in the west. Look up Paul Whelan, Brittney Griner, Michael Calvey, Trevor Reed, and most recently Travis Leake.

or Evan Gershkovich. St Pete was a wonderful city to visit before the 2014 invasion, now I think it's too risky

Oh yeah I know all about our people over there. Not a chance I'd go post 2014 unless a revolution happens.

They're all sad stories but there's a ballerina who lived in California for decades and was a US citizen (If you were ever Russian, Russia doesn't recognize your new state, you're always Russian) who was arrested last year when visiting I believe a grandma. Her charge was that she donated $25 to a Ukranian refugee fund. She had a few articles last year but not much keeping her in the news. She's going to have a tough time being an immigrant from Russia who donated to Ukraine. I don't think she has a chance of getting out and the women penal colonies like IK-14 are essentially slave factories.

The Ukraine war has taught me a lot about how Russia treats peope, especially women. Field Wives, et al. Now they're releasing female prisoners to Storm Z groups to go to the front line.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/04/world-news/ksenia-karelinas-le...

https://www.rferl.org/a/notorious-russian-women-s-prison-hel...

I imagine your friend is genuine. During undergrad/before 2014 I attended a summer school (https://www.jass.school) in St. Peterburg. I found the city to be welcoming, almost European in ambiance, with friendly university students. It never felt too foreign or unsafe. In my experience, St. Peterburg is as distinct from how I imagine Moscow as San Francisco is from Dallas, Texas.

(edit: I have no idea how it’d feel nowadays, and won’t visit Russia atm either.)

    > almost European in ambiance

It should. SPB is in the European part of Russia.

I'd skip Russia and Ukraine right now for obvious reasons. But I have a friend who managed to visit St. Peterburg before the current war and was quite impressed.

> He's only been in America a few years so as soon as he speaks the entire bar knows he's Russian.

Because Americans are so good at distinguishing Slavic languages by ear in a noisy room?

I live near a Russian Orthodox church. People complain about the congregants, but mostly about their parking. A house opposite the church as a Ukrainian flag prominently hung; on the other hand one of the congregants has a sticker of the Ukrainian flag with the don't-tread-on-me rattlesnake. I don't think most Americans care enough to be rude to Russians.

We visited St. Petersburg some years ago, probably 2012. I very much enjoyed the visit. Everyone seemed to be much too preoccupied to give a damn where we came from. The cases of Griner, Gershkovich, and the NCO in Vladivostok do make one wonder about the prospects of American tourists.

> Because Americans are so good at distinguishing Slavic languages by ear in a noisy room?

There is a simpler explanation: Russian is probably the only Slavic language most Americans know about.

They won't know you're American until you open your mouth. There is such a wide variety of phenotypes in SPB that people will just assume you are a Russian. Russians these days mostly have friendly excited reactions to foreigners speaking English in public.

I'm OP you're replying to. I've lived all over Europe, mainly Germany. You can absolutely tell Americans from other crowds by clothes/style and mannerisms.

Just like I can easily tell if someone is British or Australian (not that they look the same, but easy to discern which is which usually).

An Italian once; "Americans walk confidently in the wrong direction."

> Russians these days mostly have friendly excited reactions to foreigners speaking English in public.

That does not need to be a good thing, though. :D

It's a shame. I'd love to visit St. Petersburg, but the window of history where I could do that in relative ease and safety is closed.

Many years ago a friend went to Syria in its brief window of peace, and visited some of the incredibly well preserved Roman sites. I hope they're still OK.

I went, too. Unfortunately at least some sites are not okay: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/150901-is... (2015).

St Petersburg is beautiful and quite lovely. Or well, I don't know now, but it was before the war.

To be honest I've watched a ton of Russian YouTube content and on these videos the Russian cities doesn't seem affected. Just forget your visa/mastercard

> St Petersburg is beautiful and quite lovely.

You've been to the city center. The outskirts are dull even by Russian standards. Because of the soil there, they tend to build high-rise residential buildings spaced by 500m to 1km. Streets run in-between, there are occasional malls and that's it.

Russia is a lot like west if you stick to the big cities. Sometimes it's "more western than the west", some people just eat in fast-food chains. Well, at least when I was there before the war.

> But I cannot imagine doing that as an American. It kind of makes me wonder if he's messing with me but he hates Russia and Putin and I don't know why he would. I feel like I would be so unsafe. I'm a very "American" looking person and I only know a handful of Russian words. Well, I guess I look more German, blonde/blue eyed.

Now I’m imagining a flat with some Russian friends where they take turns throwing darts at pictures of Biden. Or Obama.

I don’t know why you think that Russians or whatever else would make an American unsafe. I mean what would they even care/have against you.

> Ironically I always expect an American to start shit with him when I'm out drinking with him so I sometimes deviate conversations away from him having to talk about being Russian at every bar we're at. He's only been in America a few years so as soon as he speaks the entire bar knows he's Russian.

Well talking about your country of origin is the most natural thing to do in those contexts.

> Well talking about your country of origin is the most natural thing to do in those contexts.

Someone out enjoying their night with friends doesn't want to constantly have to explain that they're from Russia, where in Russia, no not Moscow, 3 hours from Moscow, no I don't like Putin, no I don't support the war, etc etc over and over to random drunks.

I am glad that most (if not all) of the people we encounter aren't rude and assume he supports Putin/war, etc. That's usually what I expect to come out of someones mouth once they find out he's Russian.

It's funny but personally I'd feel less safe traveling to the USA. The chance of finding myself in the midst of a mass shooting terrifies me. Also being robbed, being involved in a road rage accident. If I was black I'd add to that the possibility of being subjected to police abuse. Without considering the chance I'm for some reason snatched and imprisoned in Guantanamo for the rest of my life without any legal process.

Yeah it's like Mad Max over here. I'm sure Russia doesn't have tons of road rage (wait, didn't the dashcam trend start there?), may have less guns but rape and domestic violence is absolutely insane (and dv is legal now), and Russia absolutely treats black people with respect (oh wait now the battlefield is full of dead minority conscripts hmm).

Maybe the USA just has a lot more news outlets. We don't have Oblasts or little shanty towns full of drunk war criminals committing rapes and crimes that don't get reported because the Oblast/town has no local news agency and everything they learn on the news is filtered through VK. There is a university on the border of Ukraine (30mins or so in I believe) where they kicked out ALL of the students living there and filled it up with village evacuees and men who are in between going to the front line. They basically took over an entire college and were sexually assaulting/harassing the young students. There is one news article about it off of telegram and it's never been updated, happened a year ago.

Not a single American thinks about Guantanamo Bay in their day to day life that isn't a public defender.

I'm on a LOT of Russian telegram channels since they started the war. Nearly all Russians get their news off of Telegram or vk and it's basically all community sourced news. If the gov doesn't want you to hear about it you won't. A LOT of stuff goes on that you only hear about if you go to that specific telegrams news channel (often for an Oblast/city/town). A LOT of people don't report any news at all because they don't want to get harassed by the government.

Funny comment though. Curious where you're from.

BelArus

It's Белоруссия (Byelorussia) in Russian, although Belarusians are not terribly fond of the name.

> Traveling to Mariupol as a tourist is the real deal in 2024

And order a Chicken Kiev when you arrive!

I was in Moldova back in 2013 for a university org summer course and for me it somehow felt like being in Cuba. There weren't many tourists but everyone was very welcoming. You could see even between students the difference in pro-russians and pro-europeans. Weird thing is cut the hot water during the summer. Best wine I've ever had and it was home made from my friend's parent's cellar. Loved the time there.

Old Soviet style communities get hot water from central plants, mainly used for heating but also for showers, so when winter is over, they shutdown the heating plants for the season and no hot water at all. Some places in Northern China hook into muni hot water for showers in the winter but use solar hot water in the summer, when hot showers can be a bit less satisfying (in my experience anyways).

> Old Soviet style communities get hot water from central plants, mainly used for heating but also for showers, so when winter is over, they shutdown the heating plants for the season and no hot water at all.

That's not quite correct. Thermal power plants supply heat, but local water heating stations can typically work autonomously.

Hot water is typically turned off to allow for maintenance and tests. Hot water pipes corrode about 10-20 _times_ faster than cold water pipes.

District heating is common in many northern European cities, even Italy (e.g 55% of households in Turino). The USA has 2500 (as of 2013) such heating and cooling networks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating district cooling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_cooling

Lebanon has a non-functional government where all publicly-owned everything basically doesn't work. Beirut is essentially a libertarian enclave now, where everyone with means has their own solar panels and gas generators, self-produces all power, and the economy runs on paper US dollars and cryptocurrencies. It's amazing what people can do when their governments are non-existent.

How is police / crime doing?

Terrible, as is inflation, as is almost everything else, and in the south of the country you got hezbollah bombing things. I'm not Lebanese so just know what I know from close friends, but the comment read very strange to me. Life is very difficult there, none of the Lebanese I know want to move back. I'm not sure why OP painted it as an anarchist utopia, that's definitely not what I hear.

You also get Israel bombing the south of the country and a Syrian border run by drug cartels.

Agree with the sentiment on OP. These libertarian views are so often held by comfortable Americans who've never seen what an absence of government looks like.

The OP's handle of "monero-xmr" might give you a hint why.

I never said it was amazing, I said how the country is still functional and people are kept from starving to death, given the government is nonexistent

How is Hisbollah doing?

Makes sense, but when I asked most people answered that it was to save natural gas.

It is so incorrect, it is boderline idiotic urban legend. post-Soviet cities have hot water year around; same heating plants used for winter heating, are used for hot water in summer time, albeit at lower power. Also waste heat from power plants used for the same purpose.

I'll fact check you since I was born and grew up in Russia. No water most of the summer used to be the norm in my city. Checking as of today, in two cities I know central hot water is off every summer for 2+ weeks. My city improved and another one regressed. In a third city I asked about (one of the coldest) it's off for just single digit days.

What you describe is not normal today (unless we are talking about some Mukhosransk type of cities), and certainly was not normal in USSR, which kept civil infrastructure in a good shape.

As someone who is currently living in Central Asia, yes I do have no water for two weeks a year, they switch it off for "maintenance". However all last 5+ years, I had water through summer, with only occasional failures. We did have no heating one year, but water was all the time present.

Sure, they keep water hot in select cities, and the rest is Mukhosransk territory that doesn't matter. You could be from Moscow with that logic!

Respectfully you have no idea, planned hot water downtime in summer is reality for most cities in Russia (including SPb with official maximum length of two weeks), don't try to paint it look better than the mess it is.

Other post-Soviet countries probably do better, especially in Europe, but I have no info

Even if you've never had to take cold showers in the summer, I have. I'm not sure why you can't believe our experiences would differ. The only reason I mentioned the USSR at all is because when I asked in China they said they got the system from them (and south of the Yangtze, you don't even get that).

Not sure what is your point. You've mentioned USSR and it was wrong, as Soviet System has never been like that - "hot water only during the winter". Ergo, you should not have brought up USSR.

They have good wines, as they can only compete through quality on the European market. Although before Russia set tariffs on Moldovan products they were only exporting awful sweet wines which they sold on the Russian market. I'm glad those days are over.

Purcari and Gitana are two staple names in the EU market.

I bought them for 10+ years from a friendly reseller. IMO they are still the best value proposition.

You should try Vinia Traian[1] then, It's very close to the Gagauzia autonomous region, located in the Valul lui Traian PGI[2]. Also anything from Slobozia Mare: Domeniile Davidescu, Vinaria din Vale. They also have Saperavi, a Gerogian grape variety. A popular Moldovan variety is Rara Neagra but you should be careful not to consume it alone without meat or cheese because it's an older variety, it's more acidic and might cause stomach burns if you drink anything in excess of several glasses. In Romania it's called Babeasca Nagra and in Ukraine it's known as Sereksiya. Purcari has a wine called Freedom Blend consisting of Saperavi, Rara Neagra and Bastrado, an Ukrainian variety. The name is obviously a pun.

  1. https://www.viniatraian.md/
  2. https://wineofmoldova.com/en/valul-lui-traian-pgi-region/

Off-topic, where can I find moldovan wines in the US, specially any rara neagra? I used to buy them in a store in Ohio (Jungle Jim's), but I don't live in the Midwest anymore.

"Weird thing is cut the hot water during the summer."

That's probably for the pipe maintenance. Even now in Russia the hot water gets cut off for a couple of weeks.

Had the reverse. Went there late October and it was unseasonably cold. Soviet style hotels only switch on the heating novemeber 1st though

I've been to Moldova this year during my 15-countries 2-week solo road trip. To be honest it was hard to find interesting (for me) places to visit there. I found Old Orhei, which they try to make a big tourist attraction, to be kinda boring, same for Stephen the Great Central Park, but really liked brutal building of Chișinău State Circus and Romanița Collective Housing. I've skipped Mileștii Mici Winery, as it didn't work with my timing, kinda regret it. And yeah, that's all, in the entire country, I haven't found anything else interesting. So no surprise tourist don't come.

> my 15-countries 2-week solo road trip

That's barely a day in each country. Why the speedrun?

If you want a bit of a lark, spend some time checking out /r/roadtrip. Seems like at least a few times a week someone will show a map of their planned route: 8,000 miles across 10 states, 7 national parks, and 14 cities. "Hey guys! I'll be driving this route during a long weekend. Any other places I should stop??"

So is this mainly for a virtual highscore? Gamification of real life, tick all the boxes on your mission list, to feel accomplishment?

I doubt one can see the real gems this way. I travelled a lot, but the highlights were never the famous tourist spots and I would not have felt them as highlight by just stopping by and making a picture. But each to his own I guess.

People want to make the most of their limited vacation time and don't understand how time consuming and draining traveling between places is.

I once met a Japanese guy who was "doing" Scandinavia in a single weekend, which basically meant flying into Copenhagen, taking a train to Oslo, another to Stockholm and flying out. I don't think he ever saw a fjord or an island.

Consider the number of people whose dating profiles say that they've been to X countries by the age of 20-something. Yep, easy way for that to be true is to just drive through them.

For me that was a pretty normal trip, 10th one (2nd one in this year) planned like this.

About 6 hours a day of driving, total visited about 45 out of 52 planned points. For example I don't understand people who go to a beach and spend half a day there, I go, swim for 30 minutes, and I'm out. Same for any other attraction. How long should I spend on a beautiful viewpoint in Greek mountains? For me it's a stop, take photo, admire for 3 minutes, and be on my way. I avoid museums, except transport/communication/computer museums, as they are pretty boring.

I will do exceptions for stuff like Louvre, but sometimes I will just say no to even biggest attractions, like I did earlier this year looking at Stonehenge, +30 minutes of walking and I think +1 hour of driving from my route just to see bunch of rocks - yeah, not for me.

I will go back though, if I found the country particularly nice/pleasing, like I've been to Sweden/Norway/Finland on 2-week road trips two times in summer and two times in winter, and planning another winter one - there is just something about sleeping in car in -15°C (5F) that's just amazing.

Thanks for following up!

> For example I don't understand people who go to a beach and spend half a day there

I think beach days may be similar to your "something about sleeping in a car in -15°C (5F) that's just amazing". Some people really enjoy the sound of the ocean, the warm air, and the occasional dip. There's also just the social aspect of being outside with your family or friends and feeling that heat.

That is right, there aren't many places to visit for tourists, but there are other things that Moldova is doing different and probably better than other countries: the food and the wine.

Since Moldova is in balkans, the food is something unique: there is "zeama", there is "soleanca" and the list can continue. These are foods that you don't find anywhere so quickly.

Also: Moldova has one of the biggest wine cellars from Europe(Milestii Mici). And also: the wine is something you MUST try.

What about Romania, which is basically the same country (and was before the Soviet Union decided to mess things up)?

My wife is Romanian, and we visit the country once every year. There are plentiful of things to visit in Romania; the most beautiful cities are Sibiu, Sighișoara, Brașov, Timișoara… We have still to visit the famous painted monasteries in Bucovina, which seem to be amazing.

I visited/found kinda interesting about 3 points in Romania, have about 15 more wanted as "want to go"

https://archive.is/kQ4lp

The full article reads as a someting a copywriter would write for tourist company blog.

I have never been but comedian Tony Hawks' 2001 book "Playing the Moldovans at Tennis" was my introduction to Moldova.

"All I knew about Moldova were the eleven names of men printed on the inside back page of my news paper. None of them sounded to me like they were any good at tennis."

Staying in Moldova for 2 weeks proved to me that even the most boring of places can be amazing with the right people.

No place is boring if you’re naturally inquisitive. How can a place you’ve never been to be boring?

Sure. Try Podgorica.

https://travellingtom.com/blog/podgorica-europe-most-boring-...

I love the subtle differences of lifestyle, signage, building fixtures, etc. in foreign places, it's always interesting to see problems solved in completely different ways.

The first comparison by country do not make any sense. There are parts of Spain that have never seen a tourist, let alone foreign. Also China has an enormous amount of national tourism. People should stop thinking countrywise and start thinking more localwise for certain measures.

This is a very nice take on the country. I visited a few years ago (took an overnight train from Romania which was a blast, albeit not the most restful experience) and I would just say that there isn't all that much to see or things going on. Not to say it isn't a nice enough place, it's just not one I'd ever recommend as a tourist destination for people. If you want more Eastern Europe vibes I think Romania is just fine for that with much more going on -- if you're more adventurous Lviv and Kyiv are fantastic (I was just there in April, still gorgeous cities with great restaurants, bars, and art). And if you want old Europe with a post-Soviet flavor, nothing beats Estonia and the well preserved old town in the capital

Estonia’s old city is a treat to explore. Last time I was there was several years back during the winter and it was -30c or so out. Didn’t stop some drunk Brits from having a good time.

It was a top destination for Brit bachelor parties some years ago but that trade seems to have dried up of late. Good riddance.

Why? Cheap flights and booze? I'd like to know in order to avoid such destinations. Drunk Brits on bachelor parties were by far the most annoying tourists in Spain or Greece. I thought my co-nationals were annoying until I encountered drunk Brits.

Is it still a thing? Before covid, even central Europe suffered from the drunk Brit invasion, but nowadays it seems they have moved on.

I had reindeer soup in the old city. It was awesome! Can recommend.

I was on that sleeper a week ago, most soviet thing ever! How long did it take for your conductor to take his top off?

> more adventurous > Kyiv

Understatement of the year

The funny thing is, coming from Washington DC, I felt about or more safe in Ukraine as I do here day to day. I wasn't worried about being carjacked, I wasn't worried about someone with mental health or drug problems robbing me, and I wasn't worried about being shot (as I write this it feels hyperbolic to say but I live about 10 mins walking from the capitol and in the two years I've been here there have been multiple carjackings and shootings in my neighborhood -- even a Congressman was held up at gunpoint next door to me). The idea that missiles could come raining down was scary, but there are shelters everywhere and it felt like the likelihood of getting hit was pretty low being in random bars/restaurants and not any government/military/infrastructure facility. Maybe I was calculating the odds all wrong in my head, but I didn't feel particularly unsafe while I was there (that said, wouldn't go further east or to Odessa right now).

They have hit apartments and hospitals before so its not only military/government/infra targets any longer. I'm surprised they haven't been sold an iron dome or a similar system by now to be honest.

They can't really afford to pay for such systems, the EU and US are propping up their economy right now. But also Israel refused to sell or give them the iron dome tech for rather bizarre sounding reasons: https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-rules-out-giving-ukr...

They've already been sold the whole suite of Western air defense systems in addition to the ex-Soviet gear they've already had. Patriot, HAWK, Gepard, etc.

That didn't help the childrens hospital that was hit 9 days ago unfortunately. 40 people died in that strike.

Hamas managed to overwhelm iron dome just with their jury-rigged home built rockets: https://scitechdaily.com/iron-domes-vulnerability-how-hamas-...

It wouldn't stand a hope against Russian missiles.

It is also a numbers and a money game. Those Russian missiles are as numerous as they are cheap.

Yeah, I've seen that (and some of it unfortunately is not directly from missile attacks but falling debris after missiles were intercepted) but apart from some horrendous cases, the likelihood still seemed relatively low that they'd target the bar/hostel/restaurant I happened to be in, and without enough time for me to get to a shelter. The only time I was really nervous was when an air raid siren went off when I was in the train station at Lviv and I wasn't sure whether to go to a shelter or the train (I chose the latter which was good because the train left on time)

Do you even Prague, bro...

Prague is fantastic if you can avoid the tourist crowds.

I lived there briefly with a Czech roommate who took me on tours through the "real" city. Also had a British friend there and we went through the usual tourist destinations now and then. The astronomical clock was neat, but the castle was so much more interesting and far less crowded than the old town.

Incidentally, I didn't drink before said roommate introduced me to Czech beer. What I wouldn't give for a nice frosty Kozel here in the states...

Man, I haven't thought of the word Kozel since I studied abroad in Prague 15 years ago. I must've drank two liters of Gambrinus and Kozel every day I was there.

The "dorms" for the School of Economics there were basically two large old apartment buildings 15 min out of the center by tram. One of them had its own bar inside. It was super small and dingy with a bartender who was this middle aged androgynous guy with pink hair. There weren't even tables, just assorted bean bag like seats you might find in a preteen's bedroom.

God that place was so much more me than Texas, and maybe the US, could ever be.

Not only is it delicious but it’s often 25% of the price or less than other European countries. I am not sure why beer is so cheap in Czech Republic specifically but every country that surrounds it is significantly more expensive

Budapest is also a great eastern Euro vibe. Especially the old, Soviet-looking street cars and busses!

I was in Budapest last summer and it was terrific. Lots of historical places that have been well preserved. People were friendly and it was easy to engage with them.

What I have learned in a half century of travel is you learn a lot more about a place trying to talk to its citizens than you ever can visiting monuments or museums. Plus you can make some life long friends.

Bad news -- actually good for residents -- those socialist era trams and buses are gone by now. The typical "UV" trams manufactured between 1956–1965 have been retired in 2007. The Ikarus 260 and Ikarus 280 buses last ran in 2022 November.

OK, some old trams remain but they have been throughly modernized so that old feeling is basically gone.

Prague is central Europe

It’s even a good bit further west than Vienna.

Vienna is great, too. Prague and Vienna have a lot in common (great beer, for example).

Prague has even better beer than Vienna’s decent beer. But the wine here is very good :)

Fair, Prague is amazing!

Another place I'd like to go is Kyrgyzstan. And Turkmenistan.

Why? Because no one goes there. What other reason do you need?

I’ve been to Bishkek, it’s a really interesting place. At the time everything was still straight out of the Soviet Union (maybe still is) and the people were all friendly. The mountains are immense and beautiful.

The tourist experience wasn’t sugarcoated at all though. It’s a genuine poor country with not a whole lot happening. Id say go for it, it’s a place that I find myself thinking of often.

I'd thought of going to Greenland when I was in Iceland, but finally the 3-hour flights and lack of much tourist infrastructure finally dissuaded me.

At least in Bishkek you can go to other places, like Samarkand (only a 12-hour drive /s )

> And Turkmenistan.

Almost impossible to get a visa; probably easier to get a tour in North Korea.

I’ve been to both and the Turkmenistan visa took me a week. North Korea required 2.5 years.

Same, but my Turkmenistan LoI took over 4 years and several attempts to get (us passport holder). It has been by far the most problematic and difficult country for me to gain entry to. DPRK, Iran, etc all were substantially easier. My DPRK one was not an issue in the slightest, maybe 1-2 month turnaround from the tour company applying.

YMMV.

I physically walked into the Turkmen embassy in Tashkent, handed them my passport with the filled form, and came back a week later. I was surprised, but it was probably the easiest central Asian visa to get.

Kyrgyzstan is a good place to take in a game of kok buru, which I found endlessly entertaining - much more fun than football.

It's also the most scenic 'stan imo, by a wide margin. Was definitely my favorite of them all and is the only one I'd actually recommend people visit.

> Six hours later, the minibus rolled into Barskoon

shut up and take my money

Somewhat surprisingly (to me at least), they produce some pretty good red wine (i.e. Purcari). Recently found it while checking out an eastern European grocery store.

I've always understood Moldovan wine to be quite respected. I love the wine from that general region...my favorite is Crimean wine, the semi-sweet variety.

I was in Belarus recently and it did feel like I was the only non-Slavic person, and tourist, on the bus there (yes, bus, because no European country except for Turkey is flying to Belarus). Everyone else seemed like locals going back home for a visit (including my wife!).

But once you get to Minsk, it's actually pretty modern and nice, extremely clean... and clearly a vibrating city with lots of things to do, buy and see... there's quite a few non-westernerns there (Indians, Chinese and other Asians, Africans), seems like mostly students. I was told they have programs to have exchange students which was already going on since Soviet times, and Belarus has some pretty good universtities apparently.

We also had very international food! I noticed there's Domino's Pizzas everywhere. One of the best restaurants we visited was a big Chinese one in the most popular area of the city. Also tried the local Belarussian cuisine, of course, a large Georgian restaurant (both were delicious and really good prices), some Italian food etc.

We visited lots of museums and art galleries, and they have excellent ones! In most of them we were very nearly the only visitors, despite being in the middle of summer. The attendants were really happy to receive us, and we had basically private tours of everything, they gave us much more attention than I've ever got anywhere else. Forget queues to get in or crowds around the main attractions!! My wife had to translate every word, but they still made sure to answer every question and point out every detail to us, slowly so that my wife could translate everything.

Even though our world is messed up and Belarus right now is seen as an "enemy country", I hope people can understand that they're a beautiful, honest people just trying to live life, like all of us. I think if more people visited, perhaps we would be better able to understand each other and keep a closer connection that could've avoided the mess we're in. I know the EU was trying to get closer to Belarus and vice-versa before "you know what" (I saw some restored buildings in a country town that were paid for by the EU!).... that totally stopped now, unfortunately. Hope countries like Belarus and Moldova continue their modernisation and getting closer to the rest of Europe without changing their own cultures too much, they have a rich and proud history and culture that should be maintained, we shouldn't make the mistake of expecting them to become just like us... they don't even want that, they just want to be as prosperous, which is a very different thing.

> I know the EU was trying to get closer to Belarus and vice-versa before "you know what"

"you know what" after 2020-2021 protests and continuing systematic torture of political prisoners are the big reasons not to go there

There was also the whole “using fighter jets to force a Ryanair plane with a dissident to land in Belarus”

Well yeah, Belarus is essentially off-limits to a large part of the world due to Russia's war with Ukraine.

Belarus does seem like a wonderful country at its core, but after the election fraud all progress just froze and the country is (once again) seen as Russia's de-facto vassal state. This sucks for the people of Belarus who got caught up in this, but for the average tourist going there is not something to consider.

The travel advice for Dutch tourists, for example, is literally don't; this country is not safe for holidays. And that's ignoring the additional warnings for LGTB+ folk.

I had to laugh at "this country is not safe" :D my country also advised that, but I've been there many times. It's about the safest country in Europe IMHO.

Until some special operation happens or some other one off event.

At the same time, yes, I wouldn't worry for theft or robberies.

It depends on your definition of safe. You won't be robbed. You may be assaulted on the street at night even in downtown Minsk. But the biggest risk is the state.

If someone in the security apparatus decides that you should be taken hostage, tortured and beaten to death to show off to your government, they will do it and there will be no way for your consulate to help you.

It's tougher for locals. Over 300,000 people out of around 9 mln left the country since 2020, escaping from prosecution, prison or simply as they lost their jobs because of a smiley, comment on social media or just because they were subscribed to an opposition Telegram channel.

You have to understand that street crime and organized crime are virtually non-existent because thugs rule the country.

It well may be the safest country in Europe, provided you shut your mouth instead of talking much about important matters.

it's probably fairly safe until you are arrested and accused of being a spy in hope of bargaining for some sanction lifting deal with you country

Belarus shot down that hot air balloon some years ago, based on some lame excuse. Pretty sh#tty.

And landed a Ryanair plane, sending an interceptor for it. For that it became a no-fly zone well before the invasion of Ukraine from Belarus soil.

It's yet another Soviet country on the Great European Plains. Lots of forests, bliny, potatoes, and vodka. A thin coat of "western culture" (pizza and burger places, coke, etc.) over a poor state governed in a way that's been out of fashion in that part of Europe since 1989, now also a vassal state of Russia. People are "nice", but when you talk to them you realise the want western levels of prosperity (as seen in the movies) with the way of living that fits the mentality of Homo Sovieticus. It's not a pleasant mix.

If you like unusual places for vacations, this was a fun show:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist

(and he went to Transnistria)

The last time I visited Moldova was in February 2020. Recorded some walks there: [1][2].

I also went several times since 2010. There were good connections towards Odessa which I loved during summer and Chisinau had OK flight connections.

Transnistria was more interesting back in 2018 when it was like being transported into a 1980's Russian province city. It was super cheap there actually.

[1] https://youtu.be/CISUVZ8siGA

[2] https://youtu.be/nH_oHUIOe6E

Moldova is sandwiched between NATO (Romania) the active war in Ukraine. Please avoid, and if you cannot then please prepare to take care of yourself should things heat up. Every time a conflict starts there are tourists demanding their home countries send helicopters to rescue them. At least remember to register your exact location and details with your embassy. And have a car. Be ready to drive yourself should the trains/power be cut. If you are adverse to driving, keep enough food/water/shoes on hand for a multi-day walk should that be necessary.

Russia hasnt taken a single large city since the start of the war. They are struggling to even keep the front intact (which is why Putin now begs for peace). They wont suddenly blast through all of Ukraine and invade a new country just over a night. But sure never hurts to be prepared.

does keeping front intact mean retreating or advancing?

And if it is NATO blasting through Moldova into Ukraine?

It won't be the troops and their missiles and planes have better targeting. They'll be flying over your heads. Still, GTFO ASAP when shit hits the fan.

why would they; more realistic would be Romania and Ukraine deciding to disarm Transnistria on behalf of Moldova

Moldova is like the Shire. Green hills, good wine, nice people. Not much to see but there's something peaceful about it. Happy to call it home.

I am living in Transnistria. Nice place btw.

Are you a native or did you move there? How's Igor? Still fishing?

I don't know what that piece of old crap is doing now.

So you're an occupier?

a "liberator" according to him

pretty sure that's the current propaganda line

I don't care about governments, I born and living here. Those who don't like that can go fck themselves.

Is Moldova so special? I was there some years ago, including Transnistria https://expatcircle.com/cms/emigration-today-transnistria/

Just came back from Ukraine, was really fun. But I must say, the Ukrainians don't know how to party. In such a situation, you must party like there is no tomorrow, but they don't. They have a curfew after 11. And speak low places are hard to find.

If you like to travel off the beaten track, check out the travel agency of some of my buddies: https://www.youngpioneertours.com/

Friend of mine had the very same experience lately, when he traveled Moldova. He was in a group, and every other of the group was from some kind of "foreign diplomatic service" :)

https://archive.is/kQ4lp

Visit Transnistria for another level of amazement if you're in the area. The last Soviet republic.

There's a BBC short series from some years ago where our intrepid correspondent visits twilight zones. The episode on Transdnestr is really a trip. He even manages to visit an arms factory masquerading as making consumer stuff. The episode is worth looking up.

If it was "Places That Don't Exist" with Simon Reeve, it's available here on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0I404gXbNg

You haven't really given us enough information to find it - have you got a name or star or anything?

And both mentioned and visited in the linked-to article. With pictures.

"bald and bankrupt" take on this (2019) was enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnDxHTaeNX0

I've been to Moldova a couple of times and after watching the video I'd like to offer my take on it.

Some parts are really on-point - especially the wall of thieves - and I understand it's hard to present an objective perspective of the country after one visit and without having a more thorough deep-dive into its past 30 years (and don't get me wrong, I don't expect tourists to do that for their travel destinations) - but take the video with a (big) grain of salt.

While I understand it's not the most "visit-able" country in the world, the people I've met have been nothing but wonderful and I've developed a deep respect for them, especially in light of all the challenges they've faced.

My 2 cents: If you don't feel confident enough to visit Moldova yet, maybe try their wines, they're not too shabby (this is not an alcohol commercial, please drink responsibly).

Yes, I have been there in march. I loved it. I think Moldova is changing. For the good.

This video is a fake representation of Chisinau. The author deliberately chose the one derelict area (despite being on a central street, it’s the equivalent of being in the Harlem but yet still on Madison ave) that’s been a point of contention between the local authorities and central government for 20+ years. The hotel is being deliberately left unattended by local authorities as a fuck you to the parliament. Nothing more than a bargaining chip.

Obligatory PSA that he is allegedly* a sex tourist with highly dubious practices off-camera.

Edit: Context provided by senorrib below - https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/

* Make your own conclusions

what service does this announcement do to the public exactly

Perhaps people may not want to watch content made by an alleged rape apologist.

Is he?

https://eightify.app/media/fact-checking-allegations-against...

This is a terrible misrepresentation of Moldova and the progress it has undergone in the past 20 years. Please look at Moldova’s GDP growth since 2000 compared to the rest of Europe and some BRICS countries https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd...

It is as close as you can get to India/Chinas growth without leaving Europe. Chisinau is bustling with activity and full of foreigners chasing entrepreneurial opportunities. The leading Eastern European private equity funds are making hundreds of millions of investments in the country and there appears to be a gold rush in all service oriented areas: IT Consulting, Banking, BPO outsourcing etc.

It is lazy, easy and dishonest to draw a portrait of a derelict country. Diving into the essence of what is actually happening behind the scenes takes a lot more effort. The description of a horse carriage in the center of the capital city is outright false. Chisinau is on par with Kiev, Warsaw, Bucharest, Sofia etc, but bustling with opportunity at every corner.

Like many post Soviet countries, Moldova is incredibly corrupt. Fortunately, it now has a former US federal prosecutor leading anti-corruption efforts. The current president and more than half of the current prime ministers cabinet is made up of Ivy League educated technocrats under 40 yrs of age. It is a very exciting place.

The table on that page (countries with the most and least tourists per capita) is a prime example of how NOT to present data. There are so many better ways of visualizing tourism than lazily dumping a spreadsheet with one significant figure after the decimal on a page.

I wonder what will happen to them if Ukraine loses to Russia. I have heard Moldova already has issues with Russian separatists.

EDIT: Changed an offensive use of a definitive article. ;)

You're thinking of Transnistria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

The history of that area is complex. Moldova itself was part of the Ottoman Empire, then it was ceded to the Russian Empire, united with Romania, then the whole are became part of the USSR... and after the dissolution of the USSR, Transnistria became an unregognized, but de facto autonomous "country". Moldovians see the area as still part of Moldova (with some still considering the whole country as part of Romania!). The EU sees it as a Russian-occupied area since Russia supports the local government, and without Russian support the Moldavian Government would've probably taken over the area already (it's a frozen conflict area... Eastern Ukraine is headed for the same destiny, it seems).

Ah, thanks for helping my memory!

However, it remains to be seen if the war in Ukraine can be frozen. If a certain large supporter of Ukraine stops the support, Ukrainians might simply lose it all. But will Russia stop there?

> Eastern Ukraine is headed for the same destiny, it seems

it doesn't, Russia hasn't officially annexed Transnistria as it did with occupied Ukrainian territories

Fyi: Including "the" changes the meaning - it alludes to imperial language aking to calling the nation The Periphery.

I am not sure what you are talking about. Could you please elaborate?

EDIT: Found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Etymology_and_orthogra... now. Thanks for the correction!

Referring to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" is a symbol for many people of when it was a colony of part of the Soviet Union, rather than an independent nation. Similar to how many people use to refer to Kyiv as Kiev but changed as that was the more Russian spelling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Etymology_and_orthogra...

It's the difference between a descriptive name for a region and the name of a sovereign country. This is particularly relevant given the repeated attempts to conquer it and make it no longer a sovereign country.

The Ukraine is a translation of Imperial Russia's name for the country. Whereas Ukraine is the self-selected name for the Sovereign Nation.

Nowadays people prefer to call the country "Ukraine", rather "the Ukraine". I admit I've made that mistake more than a few times.

See here for some backstory and history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

Sorry, how does that refute anything?

The point is that in English, adding the definite article makes it sound like a region rather than a country: "the mountains", "the veldt", "the border land".

Removing the article is appropriate for a country, unless grammatically necessary like "The United States of America", but not "The America" or "The Germany".

...wtf is "imperial language"?

Language which implies colonial status through historical insinuation when referencing a sovereign nation.

These guys visited Moldova: https://youtu.be/AhuHPhey7D4?si=5ova8E8UkEm2SBhe&t=42

Travelling to any ex-USSR countries on the periphery from the "western" world is taking a nice fun gamble.

The bigger places in Kazakhstan are probably okay, and yeah, you likely would have fun in Tbilisi or Yerevan, but the chance of you having a very bad time in Bishkek or (heavens forbid) the Dushanbe is just too high.

It could be a lot of fun, it would be fairly cheap by western standards, it will certainly be unforgettable, but it can go sideways in so many ways. Not maybe as sideways as Kabul but getting there.

The right time to visit for fun exotic fun times was late 80ies (and I was lucky to have been in those places with my parents then). These days I'd highly recommend against it.

As someone living "on the edge" (in one of the post-soviet countries which are now belonging to the "western world") I... don't understand your sentiment. I live in the EU, frequently travel to the western Europe and across the ocean for work meetings and conferences, and I worked for two years in France, so I'm pretty familiar with the west. On the other hand, for recreation I often travel south (think balcans) and east (excluding two obvious unfriendly countries). And these countries, their norms, laws, everyday problems, are basically the same as in the western Europe. I don't mean in abstract "we are all people", I mean really the post-USSR counties are very similar, just slightly poorer, less mature (getting used to democracy is not easy and not everyone succeeds immediately), and with the post-soviet "oriental" vibe that western people like to exaggregate.

In short, I think this is a simplistic point of view, and one that is unfair to the people living in the countries you deem dangerous to "western" people.

I don't think the Balkans are comparable.

Sure, they were a war zone recently, too, but the EU integration there is much faster, probably because tourism is a major source of income for them. Just look at Croatia - they even have Euro as their currency now!

> but the chance of you having a very bad time in Bishkek

Could you tell us more? Is the issue just that outsider's problems will be ignored so you have a higher chance of getting stuck, mugged, etc.? Or some other more specific issues?

I was in Bishkek last year and I don't see the risk; what concerns would you have aside from food poisoning?

Dushanbe I agree with you, but simply because I found Tajikistan rather boring and desolate but in an unimpressive way.

This kinda looks like baseless fearmongering for me.

In Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan you'll be pretty much safe everywhere throughout the country. In Kyrgyzstan, I'd avoid rural non-tourist areas, but to Bishkek and tourist destinations I'd go without second thoughts. Tajikistan is questionable, but not Dushanbe.

What kinds of things would go wrong? Robbery? What kind of chances are you thinking? 5%? 20%?

A commonly posted traveler, Matt Lakeman, just visited Dushanbe and didn't get that vibe.

https://mattlakeman.org/2024/06/20/notes-on-tajikistan/

Kind of crass for The Telegraph to write this when there are Ukrainian men getting shot by Ukrainian border guards for daring to cross into Republic of Moldova, but that's on brand for this media entity. From here [1]:

> A body with a gunshot wound was found near the border of Moldova with UkraineCivilians & politicians

> Last weekend, while harvesting wheat near the Klokushna-Sokiryany checkpoint, local residents discovered the body of a man with gunshot wounds. The body was found 250 meters from the border. As it turned out later, the murdered man was a 32-year-old Ukrainian. Presumably, he was able to cross the border into Moldova, but he was noticed by Ukrainian border guards. They probably opened fire on him. The bullets hit him in the head and back.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1e6e0y...

The Telegraph article predates the shooting incident at the border by 14 days.

You are referencing "men" getting shot when the incident involves 1 person getting shot, and this is the only such incident that has been reported 2+ years into the full-scale invasion.

That "shooting incident" has not been an isolated case, not by a long shot.

> You are referencing "men" getting shot when the incident involves 1 person getting shot (...) and this is the only such incident that has been reported 2+ years into the full-scale invasion.

So the barbed wire put along-side the Tisza river on the Ukrainian side is to keep the geese in, not for making Ukraine an open-air prison for its military-aged men. And when it comes to Moldova vs. Ukraine and Ukrainian men dying close to the border you're also of course very wrong, here's another such "incident" [1] from just a few days prior

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1e3old...

I'll believe it when I see it in sources other than, well, that website that some people seem to think of as a news source.

(One of the two links posted corresponds to widespread news reports. The other just shows some dead guy in a field).

How is that most than slightly relevant?

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