Nokia 6600 vs. Samsung S24 Ultra | Hacker News Reader

Nokia 6600 vs. Samsung S24 Ultra

cirrus.twiddles.com

34 pointslioeters64 comments

>Battery life has gone down. When you consider that the battery capacity has gone up, you realise how much more power-hungry the S24 Ultra is.

Sure the standby time is far lower, but the talk time has greatly increased. The talk time of the Nokia 6600 was between 2 and 4 hours.

Our memory of long battery life is simply explained: the phone did very little and we used them far less. Modern smartphones can also perform active user-driven functions without significantly reducing the standby time. For example, continuous music playback can lessen the standby time by as little as 15% on modern devices.

That's an astute observation. Also very true.

> Battery life has gone down. When you consider that the battery capacity has gone up, you realise how much more power-hungry the S24 Ultra is.

I bought a Samsung S7 tablet, and first thing I did (as I always do on all my Androids) is to enable USB Debugging and adb install NoRootFirewall.apk. There were so many apps that wanted to 'phone home', and the battery would drain after 24-36h with almost no use.

After I uninstalled or disabled 'a lot' of its apps/bloatware, the battery is performing significantly better. When idling (lid closed, in my bookcase) the battery lasts for weeks. When reading, the battery lasts for days (I'm reading indoors so I use ReadEra and I keep the Brightness at 20-30%).

So I don't blame the battery, I blame the bloatware.

> NoRootFirewall

I found this on Google Play but apparently it was last updated in January 2020.

> NoRoot Firewall may not work on LTE because it NoRoot Firewall currently doesn't support IPv6.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.greyshirts...

Searching for this keyword I found another one called NetGuard on F-Droid. It supports IPv6 and looks like it's updated more frequently (or at least more recently).

https://f-droid.org/packages/eu.faircode.netguard/

Anyway, thank you for the tip to use firewall for improving battery life.

Isn't it exactly what they are saying?

My 6630 even had a maps app! No GPS, you had to actually read the map to know where you were. I had the Transport for London WAP page for my bus times. I had everything I needed!

My Nokia E61 and then E71 felt like I had everything I needed (except built in GPS on the E61, but a cheap Bluetooth module sufficed) - maps, apps, movies, music, blogging, great notes, OK camera, extendable storage - and a battery which lasted days (and removable batteries that were pretty cheap so I usually had a couple of ready charged spares around).

But I remember those days fondly - like you having the bus times in London felt like witchcraft to my dumb-phone owning friends

It has a-gps that works with mobile network triangulation

a-gps is quite a different thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS

The term "A-GPS" was also used hand-wavy for various location techs during 2005-2015. GP's is sort of period correct understanding.

Smartphones in the same class as the S24 Ultra are marvels of engineering. The fact that we no longer think how amazing modern technology is and instead focus solely on their intended functions is a testament to how much we as a civilization have achieved.

What is notable here to me is how in computing we used to expect 2x improvement every 18-24 months, so for 20 years that would have meant 1000-10000x improvement. Yet almost all the increases are <1000x here.

It's probably the software stack consuming more and more of the available hardware capacity. I seem to remember there's a "law", like software expands until it consumes all available capacity.. Ah here it is, Niklaus Wirth in "A Plea for Lean Software" (1995). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth's_law

> Wirth's law is an adage on computer performance which states that software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware is becoming faster.

> Martin Reiser, who in the preface to his book on the Oberon System wrote: "The hope is that the progress in hardware will cure all software ills. However, a critical observer may observe that software manages to outgrow hardware in size and sluggishness."

> "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away"

> "Software efficiency halves every 18 months, compensating Moore's law"

> I wonder how things will look 20 years from now. I'm sure raw specs will continue to improve and make my shiny, new S24 Ultra look as dated then as it does my 6600 today.

Not happening. We are very close to various limits imposed by physics. I don't even believe SGS 44U will be more than 3-4 times faster than SGS 24U in ST mode, if not less.

I guess, efficiency and batteries will improve, so the devices will last much longer than now. Maybe even efficiency will great enough that the whole energy can be harvested from movement or environment and we don't have to charge the devices at all.

Type of user interfaces might also be improve a lot. Think about a device that maps "images" directly in your visual cortex, so no need for displays anymore.

Or holographic projections instead of screens.

Much sci-fi today but potentially reality in 20 years.

Also the way we communicate with the device will drastically change. We already have AI language models and good speech recognition but these are in a very early state. I assume such things will improve a lot and will be integrated soon in consumer devices.

The thing I'm most sad about the humane pin is all the engineering work that went into that display, only to be locked away.

This has been a refrain for a long time now. And yet…

To be honest, my current smartphone doesn't feel at all that evolved compared to my 300€s Lumia 920 from 2013..

Pics are slightly better, but I've never cared that much about photos and the Lumia 920 made amazing ones.

In fact, if anything, my phone feels slower, more intrusive with ads and notifications..Battery life is much worse too.

Things that got better are:

- apps supported. Windows mobile was killed by developers sabotaging the ecosystem entirely, many banks/etc just ignored it even when Lumias were outselling iphones globally

- screen: albeit it really shows in a very light environments (like at the beach)

- external hardware support such as Bluetooth earbuds

It was Windows Phone, not Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile long worked on resistive touchscreens and had a piece of the cake there. Apple iPhone (with Google Android following up) was innovative with regards to capacitive touchscreen. Which is much more user friendly when using the input device always with you: your fingertips, as opposed to a stylus. It also allowed for bigger interface and more appropriate font size, helping all those 40+ aged people.

Back then (Ballmer era) I still didn't trust Microsoft at all. Or: I trusted Google and Apple too much. I'd much rather have seen Sailfish succeed. Especially as I used the predecessors in '00s (Nokia N810, N900). N9 was a great direction but Elop and Ballmer killed it off. But sabotage, it is more a chicken egg problem of network effect. Cause, many devs tried.

I still believe Windows Phone had a clean UI with those limited default colors.

As developer that invested into WinRT, Microsoft did most of the work killing it.

Starting by the whole WP 7 to WP 8 reboot.

Multiple rewrites of WinRT, requiring us to yet again rewrite the application, between 8, 8.1 and 10, across the various deployment targets, phone, tablet and desktop.

Replacing C++/CX with the junk tooling of C++/WinRT, back to the ATL glory days.

Ah, the broken promise that all WP 8 devices would be compatible with WP 8.1.

And this doesn't cover the remaining mess on the desktop, that carries on with WinUI 3.0.

Eventually we stop caring, and moved into more trusty platform holders.

The way you make ST faster is by moving more to hardware.

Instead of computing CRC32 or AES one instruction at a time according to their algorithm, you just have a hardware CRC/AES instruction which does it in one go.

Same for decoding movies, or running neural-networks.

AMD/Intel still deliver 10-15% ST improvement with each generation. Compound that over 20 years and it's way more than 3-4 times faster.

Phone case technology is an underrated area for development. Pop sockets are the most innovation we've been able to mass market.

We’re hampered by the limits of engineering, not those of physics by a long shot.

But it will have AI.

Which will show you the ads you really want, generated live to match your personal psychology and trigger your spending instincts.

The biggest difference between the Nokia and the Samsung is that you use the Nokia, the Samsung uses you.

Feature phones have not gone anywhere.

Modern feature phones are great for hiking or for children. I have modern Nokia 800 Tough 4Glte with me when I take long hikes

- 43 days of standby time from a single charge. 2,100 mAh1 removable battery.

- WhatsApp messaging, google maps etc. all basic apps you need.

OT but since it's mentioned. Has there been any new evolution in the vision pro space?

I haven't heard it mentioned since it was launched, I haven't heard over the internet about people using it at all, nor I've heard of any killer app coming the VR headset.

And, if you pair the phone with the smart watch, your watch can help you find the phone.

I typically don't use this, as I can get a few more steps in on the tracker wandering around the house looking for the phone, but it does help when time is of essence.

> I don't need to carry my credit/debit cards anymore

first world problems?

Transportation cards also no longer necessary.

It means you can leave your wallet at home, no longer have a wallet (cash no longer status quo), or only have your ID with you (since loyalty cards are also in app on smartphone). Though even for ID I have an app.

You say first world problems, but OTOH when you go sport or in summer without many clothes the weight matters.

This al works great, until your battery is dead or your device is lost/stolen.

Two steps forward, one step back.

I don't think you can count the camera captor size to face value when the software use pixel binning technique to get decent pictures. You need to consider the size of the end result.

You can also somtimes plug the old nokia phone to USB and start making calls, reading/deleting SMS and many more over standard AT commands.

Also very convenient.

I for one have a feeling we've reached the plateau of form and function some time ago already: a slab with a touchscreen on one side and some camera(s) on the other.

In other words: smartphones got boring, which often goes with maturity ( :-) ).

The "AI features", "folding this way", "folding that way" - sure, cool to have some gimmicks - perhaps actually important features in some (niche?) use-cases?

Smartphone is a tool nowadays, in many cases a rather inescapable one (auth, banking, transport...). And please remember: there is no force of nature making you install news/social media apps and then doom scroll.

Indeed. I'm still using the phone I bought in 2017 (OnePlus 5T) and it's still 100% adequate. In fact, my wife is still using my previous 2013 OnePlus One and though it's a tad slow and cramped in storage, it's still 100% adequate running LineageOS.

Sometimes I really wish I didn't brick my OnePlus X, it was a good and simple device. Perfect for a spare fallback phone or a main one acting like a dumb-ish phone with QoL smart features (like camera, navigation, bank apps, music, totp...)

(I bricked it because some bootloader flash part had a stupidly low write limit, and I burned them by updating the bootloader one time too many)

Also loved my BB Z10, I wish it could have been community-maintained in some way (either BB liberating the OS or someone hacking Android onto it)

I love 6600 as much as the next guy, but have you seen the zoom on the s24 ultra camera?

It seems to only have 5x optical.

I'm pretty annoyed, since I had 10x optical on the Huawei P30 Pro many years ago, and I really loved that camera.

I don't know about the 5x optical but the over day I took a picture of a beach. On the phone with x2 I could see a sign that I didn't even noted bared-eyed. With x10 I could actually read the sign only the little phone number alert was unreadable.

With my bare eyes I couldn't even read the title of the sign, barely see the sign actually.

Counterpoint:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phD6UCECIig

lol ONLY

The fact that we can say that a phone ONLY has any "x" optical zoom is crazy.

There was also no need to buy a case and a screen protector.

I dropped my Nokia E71 once. It had a leather pouch. But to use it, it was out of it, and I dropped it from my hands. Screen wasn't cracked. Minor scratch on aluminium. But some of the keys in qwerty row were broken, including the important 'e'. I sent my device in for repair. A month later I got it back. The problem was gone, but a couple of months later the very problem returned. With a mechanical keyboard, you can replace individial switches.

As I wrote elsewhere in this thread: two steps forward, one step back. Or: you win some, you lose some.

People bought faceplates and holsters for their phones.

* I needed a new phone *

Did you really?

decided to treat myself

Or did you need a dopamine hit ;)

Modern phones offer no net productivity gain.

They just make you busy.

Edge case solutions already have edge case solutions.

They are also sort of a requirement in a lot of places. I need several apps. A drivers license app. A social security ID app. A digital identity verification app. A couple of digital healthcare apps since a lot of functionality has been split into different apps. A banking app. An investment app. A localized payment app because it’s very integrated in our society. Either Apple or Google pay. An app for my children’s institutions. An app for my digital mail (not email, but we’ve mostly replaced physical mail with digital in a closed system). Various ticket purchase apps.

You can sort of get around it, but your life will suck. I’m not sure these can run on the Nokia, if they can, that is great, but often our systems have married themselves with Apple and Google.

>I need several apps. A drivers license app. A social security ID app. A digital identity verification app.

Do you actually need them? Who is forcing you to? In my country those are options but nobody forces you to use them. You can use your physical IDs and licenses everywhere and do your paperwork physically in person at government offices so you can definitely live without a smartphone. I don't know any essential service that mandates a smartphone. It can all be done either in person, or via phone, or fax or snail mail when companies don't have physical offices.

Very much depends. Never lived in a place where driver license app is required, but many other apps are kinda essential, e.g. either you install banking app (and it approves your device) or walk by foot to nearest bank branch for every minor action. Some banks allow web access, many don't. Also something as simple as whatsapp requires a phone, you can't really communicate without it, and some countries use it almost exclusively.

> Some banks allow web access, many don't.

That's actually true where you live? WTF

Many banks have Web UI, but very shitty one, with fraction of functionality and still asking confirmation SMS on every action (so you need a phone anyway)

> so you need a phone anyway

Yes, that's the point of a second factor

> but very shitty one, with fraction of functionality

If I have to do high-risk or complex tasks, I want to do that on a real computer, not a toy.

I think some online-only banks like Revolut or N26 or Monzo are app exclusive.

N26 requires an app for some rare account management tasks, but you can still use it from the web.

> You can sort of get around it, but your life will suck.

I can elaborate on that part. If you want to ride public transportation you can’t buy a ticket without an app. On some stations they have ticket machines which accept credit cards, but the one at my station hasn’t worked for half a year. If you know in advance that you want to use it you can of course buy a ticket and print it.

If you want physical mail you have to get permission for it, or go through a tedious process of becoming a “non-digital-citizen”. Which is going to also give your our national digital ID in a different form, which you will have to renew after X uses by physically going to the city hall and waiting in a 2-3 hour line. Note that you’ll need this ID for every online purchase you make. My bank doesn’t accept the non-app version, but as far as public services it does work.

I can’t use my doctor without the national health app because things like digital visits have to be done through what is considered a secure channel and my doctor doesn’t want to pay extra for an external system. I think there may be a single doctors house in my city which has a web solution but they are solely for people above 70.

The place where I have my children’s investments, which is sort of the only “easy” option requires an app to log into their website. You could go through a bank, but none of the banks which allow you to buy stock on behalf of your children work without the digital ID app.

Note, I’m not actually angry about it. Having every family members social security barcode in a single app is amazing. In fact most of these apps are great. They do require a smartphone though. Now if the app providers (or their contracts) didn’t suck, many of these apps would be available outside the Apple and Google stores.

That's pretty horrifying. In which country is that? Of course just because your country fucked it up and went all digital for the lulz while dismentaling traditional Infrastrukture, making life impossible without a phone, doesn't mean all counties are doing it so I can't really see this as a threat where I lived before or where I do now or where I'm planning to move to.

And to be fair, buying stocks for your kids is a pretty niche case in terms of "surviving on society without a phone". Even in person, the bank will want some ID for that. So if you want to do it on your phone of course they'll want some app they control.

Parent is right and the fact they are being downvoted is incredibly self-absorbed.

People have different experiences than you do, and I have the same as they do.

In Sweden there's BankID on your mobile device. It also exists as an external system but that functionality and those devices are very clearly deprecated, many methods of logging in with BankID require scanning a QR code from the smartphone app or following a link that launches the app.

Kivra; a digital alternative to physical mail, has a strict requirement on BankID, and without it our companies charge for invoices to be sent to your mailbox. -- and even then, how do you pay your invoices? Internet banking is based on BankID- in fact it was invented for that purpose.

A former employer required us to use a mobile app to get our payslips, I declined (citing that my personal device may not exist and cannot be a requirement for my employment) which caused a serious internal kerfuffle and I ended up being the only person to get a physical payslip in a studio of 800 people.

A smartphone has slowly become a necessary thing to have in Sweden, as a person who grew up in the 90's-00's I am aware of how it was before smartphones, and that universe has been closed off, it's harder now to do things without a smartphone, it's not the case that it's just become more convenient to have one, it's clearly harder than it used to be to avoid owning one.

To continue talking "banks"; my bank no longer has branches available to me for doing bank transfers, they seem to only exist for helping people talk through mortgages.

You call out people being self absorbed for having different opinions, then proceed to generalize by giving Sweden as an example as if everyone in the world has the issues of Sweden's BankID. Have you considered that maybe Sweden is the outlier here, and not the norm, before calling others self absorbed? No, of course you haven't.

I don't say that everyone has it like me, just that this is how it can be, and you should keep it in mind before dismissing people who say that smartphones have become required.

I would expect the hackernews audience to have the capacity to differentiate an argument against generalisation from a generalisation itself.

>you should keep it in mind before dismissing people who say that smartphones have become required.

I never dismissed anyone, read my Original comment again. I asked the user devjab if smartphones are really a necessity for survival where he lives, as in if there's actually no way to do banking in person or use physical IDs in government offices, because I found that hard to believe from my experience of living in 3 different EU countries where physical acces for non smartphone users was always available and smartphone ID apps were only optional for those who want extra convenience of not going in person to offices. If

If you can't differentiate between a question and a dismissal and feel the need immediately jump to accusations and victimizations, then I'm gonna have to stop the conversation here.

For better or worse, the barriers to create an account here are low and the gate isn't very well kept. I would expect anyone with an account here to recognize that (and don't feed the trolls).

Where do you live and whic places do you think smartphones are a requirement for?

Where I live in the UK that’s all just optional and can be replaced with a couple of plastic cards.

In fact my phone ran out of data for the last 2 days while I was away on business (issue with the phone company).

It was a small pain but life absolutely didn’t suck.

>Where do you live and whic places do you think smartphones are a requirement for?

Try getting anywhere in China without a smartphone to run WeChat/Alipay. There's a reason they have phone charging stations everywhere.

Maybe 0.2% of the country will accept your credit card directly (hotels that cater to westerners). Nobody uses cash, but not quite everyone will outright refuse it if you try to pay with it. They won't have change and you'll give them the logistical hassle of having to turn that into digital money.

Ride hailing*, stores, and most restaurants and attractions will take payment through WeChat/Alipay exclusively.

Without your phone you'll be stuck in your hotel, unable to explore the country at all. Get used to doing everything from booking domestic flights to buying a bottle of water with your phone. Lots of places don't have physical tickets. Just some app within WeChat. Stores don't have a cash register. They have a QR code.

* Regular cabs will be happy to take cash, but absolutely DO NOT use them if you can at all avoid it. Use the ride hailing apps in WeChat/Alipay.

I needed an app recently to interact with the UK govt.

The alternative was to send them my passport in the post (which obviously I'm not doing.)

Definitely, that is why I only get new phones when mine dies, Symbian already did most of what I cared about, specially Belle edition was quite nice, no FOMO.

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