Ask HN: Is there any point teaching kids to code? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Is there any point teaching kids to code?

7 pointsbillyjobob9 comments

Back in the 90s, I had to teach myself to code solely using books. It wasn't easy, because I never had access to an actual adult coder. So in 2018 I setup a group to teach coding to kids in my neighborhood, giving them an opportunity I never had. It was popular and I enjoyed teaching.

We had to shutdown due to the pandemic. I am now considering re-opening, but I am struggling to find motivation.

For most kids, coding is no longer a viable career option. Those few who still want to pursue it can get more immediate personalized instruction from ChatGPT than they can from me. I have literally offered free mentoring - something I would have bitten off an arm to get myself - and been told they don't see any value in it compared to what they learn from ChatGPT and Youtube.

So, in 2024, is there any point in teaching kids to code?

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I wrote my first program when I was nine years old. It was a very simple quiz written in QBASIC on my parent’s PC running Windows 95. I loved programming as a kid, and 26 years later, I still do.

There’s more to life than career preparation, and what I find joyous about programming is the feeling you get when you create something. Programming is a fantastic, flexible creative medium. You can create all sorts of interesting things with code. This is what excited me about programming as a kid, and this is what still excites me.

Even if all our jobs disappear through automation, outsourcing, or other forces beyond our control, I still find computers interesting, and I still find programming creative. Even if my programs have no economic value, I still get joy out of making my computers do things, and I also get joy out of figuring out how to convert vague English into solid logic.

So, teaching students programming is like teaching students music and art. Most students who study music are not going to become Wayne Shorter-level composers or make Kenny G-levels of money, but they learn more about a medium that brings joy to people. We have been fortunate to work in a field where JavaScript creates multi-billion dollar enterprises, but even if we made nothing but smiles, I’d say it’s still worthwhile.

Back when I was doing S-100, my boss mentioned TRS-80 or something of the sort. I advised him to get involved “while computers were still understandable”.

But, as others have mentioned, the problem solving skills are portable.

When MS “invented” the GUI (they didn’t), we command-line folks referred to MS admins as “button pushers”, and I ran across many examples of where command lines worked where GUI tools failed (try partitioning a disk with that little cursor). I repartitioned many a disk on which my helper created overlapping partitions.

Now that we get answers “for everything” (we don’t) then people think like the (reputed) statement that "Everything that can be invented has been invented."

You might explain, so that they don’t learn the hard way, that ChatGPT is “uncomfortable” in new pickles, the ones that are the most important to solve, and that videos aren’t as useful as static content when you need to refer to one particular point or points, and that the trillions of bits out there on the internet aren’t like a book (even an e-book) in terms of being coherent, connected and focused.

It’s like relying on your brain to piece things together, and to shoehorn chat results into the problem at hand, or the one coming at you like an 18-wheeler, when there are alternatives available.

But I’ll go back to the problem-solving aspect. If all you get are answers, you’ll never be able to solve a new problem, and things change.

> immediate personalized instruction from ChatGPT

Is it actually any good at that? I've found it just makes stuff up and lies to you convincingly. Sounds like a terrible tutor.

Learning to code is all about the joy of discovery and overcoming obstacles that seem insurmountable. ChatGPT just solves everything for you, and I think that skips a lot of the basics and foundations that make kids excited about computers in general. I would absolutely teach kids how to code and how computers work, just maybe figure out a different angle that chatgpt can’t provide.

This right here is why everyone who knows how to code is set for life. So many will never learn logic and problem solving due to AI. Then drumroll they won't be able to get AI to do anything of value for them.

AI is the next generations "drag and drop" programming.

Connections with other human beings are irreplaceable.

Go for it. Focus on the people. Lead by example and people will be inspired by your joy of the subject.

I find this tactic works especially well kids.

I think teaching for interested children is very valuable. It is a way of looking at the world with rational thinking. If it is to learn a trade early and find a job, it is of little value. chartGPT will teach children what they need technology (especially introduction to programming)

We've been teaching kids Euclidean geometry for ages to teach them to think clearly.

I'd say coding can do this even better for some ways of thinking.

So even if coding stopped being a majority Human performed activity (e.g. like writing assembly today), it would still be valuable.

Even if there is no future, I have been coding for 40+ years and still love it. Kids might still love it too.

One of my proudest achievements was finding out an algorithm for Tower of Hanoi as a 10 year old (BASIC/Amstrad CPC).

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