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Comment by goda90 | Hacker News Reader

Do any vegetarians/vegans on HN want to chime in with their opinions about meat substitutes like Impossible and Beyond?

Personally, I eat meat, but I don't take issue with people who don't, and I'm glad they have more and more options, many of which I enjoy myself. But I'm not a big fan of those substitutes. I'd rather have meat, or a more traditional vegetarian/vegan dish(even something like a black bean burger).

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As a ~7 year vegan, I eat a fair number of substitutes. As others have said, I don't do it for my health or because I don't like the taste of meat.

That said, in line with the article, when I was in college, I had the Maddox "For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three" image blown up as a poster on my dorm door. I had a "PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals" t-shirt that I wore around. My aim was to upset the vegetarians, and I made fun of them whenever I saw a window. I can't speak for others' motivations, but the fact that there was a group of people living a lifestyle that I thought was borderline impossible cast inherent doubt and judgment on my own choices. Having to confront the fact that they might be right led to a lot of unresolved cognitive dissonance and anger.

If you'd have told me that ~20 years later I'd be vegan, married to another vegan, and raising a child on an entirely plant-based diet, I'd have laughed in your face.

How's the kid doing? (Asking as a vegan of about 16 years, and my SO is vegetarian about as long. We don't have kids though.)

My understanding (possibly a decade or more out of date... been a while since I last did any real research on the topic) was that vegetarianism was well-tested and easily made healthy, but veganism is still kinda experimental in terms of its long-term effects, especially for newborns and young children. I think the uncertainties were especially focused on bone and teeth development & maintenance.

Have you noticed anything positive or negative? Do their check-ups come back OK?

Hey, thanks for asking! Kid is almost 4 now and doing great. She eats a pretty varied diet, fortunately-- if she were picky, I expect we'd have had to have made some changes early. We made the call after consulting with her pediatrician and a dietician, both of whom were on board. All check ups have gone well, and she's been ahead on all of her milestones. She's never had any clinical or lab evidence of any deficiencies. I'm a physician myself, and I take care to watch out for anything concerning. There's a reasonable body of literature out there now supporting the safety of a well-implemented plant-based diet in kids. We actively supplement B12 and DHA/EPA.

I call her diet plant-based rather than vegan, as she's not old enough to make the ethical calls herself, but it's been interesting watching as she notices the difference between our diet and others and begins to ask questions and comment on it. As she gets older and spends more time at friends' houses, we'll probably ask that parents/school/etc. not serve her meat, but we're not going to be militant about eggs or dairy. As she gets older and can make more of her own choices, she'll make her own calls on all fronts outside the house. As of yet, she's asked about other people's omni food, but she's always turned it down when offered. We've been careful to specify that these are our own personal choices and have encouraged her to start thinking about where she stands on them herself. We're curious to see how things go from here.

Isn't it so often the case that those so staunchly "anti-gay" are, in fact, in the closet themselves? And those so in favour of censorship are likely the most debauched?

People who don't care don't care. You cared. So I think going veggie/vegan was inevitable, unless, perhaps, you were just a genuine asshole like Bourdain. Most people aren't assholes, though.

I'm a huge fan. I became veggie because I don't like the process that creates a burger. But brother do I fucking love burgers. So anything that comes close to letting me eat the food I grew up with and love without the practices I don't is rad

Vegan 12 years, my second go around (I first went in the late 90s to early 2000s). My parents had to stop being vegetarian because I wouldn’t eat anything except butter, milk, potatoes, and beef, so you could say I have carnivorous impulses. I like stuff like Impossible. Good texture, identical as far as I can remember to what a fast food burger tastes like, holds up to the grill, and you can find it just about anywhere. In addition, it has made going out to eat virtually a non-issue.

It’s amazing to me that I can walk into just about any hole in the wall tavern around me and I can still get a decent burger and a beer with my friends. 15-20 years ago maybe once in a blue moon I’d find some place that had dried and tough Morningstar patty that tasted like burnt sawdust, but most of the time I’d be stuck with a shitty garden salad or fries, if not forgoing the depressing ordeal and just drinking my meal.

At home I prefer to make everything from scratch because it tastes better, is usually cheaper, and is healthier, plus I love trying new things all the time. Last weekend I made patties from beets, lentils, rice, onion, breadcrumbs, peanut butter, and a bit of fennel… so good. But I get lazy like everyone else, and usually like once a week I just want a big fucking greasy burger, and Impossible does the trick.

I also appreciate that better products has gotten more people to lessen branch out. I can think of a whole bunch of stereotypical “but bacon tho” veg haters amongst my friends and family that have decided for various reasons to reduce meat intake and have found these products and veg cuisine in general to be an enjoyable and eye opening experience… just like I did.

Impossible and Beyond burgers, sausages, and crumbles are fantastic. Total drop-in replacement for their flesh counterparts. Breaded nuggets are also indistinguishable. Oscar Mayer and Impossible just both introduced plant-based hot dogs that are uncanny.

One area still lacking is a plant-based alternative to lean meats like chicken. Simulate has a chicken ("chicken") breast, but I haven't tried it yet.

Daring Chicken is pretty good, IMO, for shredded chicken. Doesn't quite have the same visceral flesh tearing pleasure as real dead bird, but it's yummy enough on its own and something my partner and I both enjoy a lot.

I find seitan makes a good chicken breast substitute if that's what I'm craving.

I'm a huge fan of those substitutes, not because I eat them often, but because it means I can visit my Grandparents, and they can cook what they regularly do and just use the meat substitute product instead. It also helps a lot when people change their diets, because you can keep some of your old recipes.

I'm curious what provokes this reaction. Many Indian vegetarian dishes were originally made to substitute Mughal dishes which used a lot of meat due to their origin in the steppes. I agree that there's a categorical difference between Impossible and Beyond style substitutes and, say, jackfruit but the inspiration comes from the same place. Tempeh, tofu, and seitan also originated as Buddhist ways to substitute meat eating and hit a similar flavor profile.

It's morally indefensible to create incurable bacteria or another pandemic, destroy antibiotics' effectiveness, and destabilize the climate balance of the only planet we have through the supply-causing action of buying and eating a fucking Big Mac.

Also, I suggest anyone who eats meat and has a functional sense of smell to take a trip to Greeley, CO.

I'm pretty close to vegetarian, and don't find a need to ever eat meat substitutes. Every Indian and Mediterranean restaurant will have a vegetarian option, and elsewhere you can get a salad.

I haven't eaten a beef burger in long enough that I can't remember how the substitutes taste any different. Good enough for me, but tastes vary.

They were novel at first but kinda sickening after a while (they're rather unhealthy and unbalanced). I much prefer whole-foods based meals, usually traditional Indian or Asian stuff, or a good breakfast tofu & potatoes scramble. And even among mock meats, there are a lot more interesting flavors & textures than the boring patties*.

However, Beyond/Impossible/Daiya (fake cheese) have been a lifesaver in one particular situation: Giving me something to eat at places that omnivores like to frequent (brewpubs, food trucks, pizza joints, etc.). It's a huge upgrade compared to the pitiful "leaves with vinegar" that they would've had before. The fake meats & cheeses allows otherwise boring restaurants offer a filling veggie option with minimal change to their menu and staffing.

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* If anyone wants to try other artificial/fake vegan stuff, I really like Daring shredded chicken, Gardein fish steaks, Beyond spicy sausages, Sol Cuisine nuggets, Just Egg slices, Violife smoked provolone, and Morning Star corn dogs.

None of them are particularly healthy though, and they're all pretty expensive. Not recommended if you want to optimize for value or health.

It's interesting that you call it "sickening" (not judging, I presume you mean it in the same way a long time vegetarian finds the smell of meat.) A lot of Indian vegetarian dishes were originally made to substitute meat in Mughal cuisine that was meat heavy because it originated in steppes cultures in Central Asia. Hence the use of cauliflower, jackfruit, and chickpeas. These days soya chunks (TVP) is frequently in use also to substitute things like kheema.

Though I agree there's a bit of a categorical difference in the way Beyond, Impossible, and some Gardein stuff mimics meat compared to, say, jackfruit.

It's sickening just because it's really greasy and unhealthy, not because it's particularly meat like (maybe it is, I can't remember anymore). And the Impossible in particular always leaves a weird aftertaste for me that I can only describe as "bloody ultra-umami" that lingers in the mouth for far too long.

By contrast I love most Indian food, though I've only had it with tofu and chickpeas or lentils, not TVP or jackfruit that I know of.

Oh yeah lol I see what you mean. I use those in situations that were not being healthy. A grill cook-out or a lazy night when we don't have the time to put a real nutritionally balanced meal together.

I don't like them. If you stop eating meat for a while it's hard to imagine eating it again. Like, a piece of a dead animal? Really? Why would I want to eat something like that?

I still eat burgers. They taste better than the meat versions because they're made with vegetables.

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