Daylight eInk Computer | Hacker News Reader

Daylight eInk Computer

daylightcomputer.com

78 pointssebmellen63 comments

I like the concept and I'm sure the product is great, but not putting the actual cost of the product anywhere on the website is insane to me. Just say it's going to be $730 and I can make the decision to put down a deposit or not. Only being shown the $100 deposit without any indication of the actual price is one of the worst dark patterns I can imagine.

The Tesla Cybertruck required a $500 deposit, and the cheapest model costs about $61k.

I conclude this tablet will therefore cost around $12k.

Originally a 100 and they did give a sense for pricing

Where?

Nowhere.

I agree. It showed the price when the presale was still available, so this seems like an oversight. Unless they plan to change the price.

Also, I'm still waiting for an actual hands-on review. It's really quite expensive given that my 3 year old phone was under half the price and is considerably more powerful.

There are some reviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHeIw9rXzUQ

This is probably a design oversight, a week or two ago, the prices were available for the production releases.

I highly doubt this. In my opinion, the much more likely reasoning was that there was a huge drop off in pre-order conversion on whichever page had the price and someone important said "we should try removing the price to see how that affects conversion."

The title here is incorrect, the display isn’t e-ink, but a transflective LCD.

It’s worth watching this YouTube video showcasing how it looks next to a real e-ink device to get a clearer idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac-qtk2lmk

Not a fan of this landing page - just tell me it runs Android and show me the price. All the hooplah about healthier living through smarter computers makes me afraid that I won't be able to use it for what I need. It's pitching itself to the wrong audience.

And you're not the audience.

Yes I am. This is dragnet marketing intended to prey on people that feel vulnerable around modern technology. It's the "Dentist Recommended Cigarette Brand" of tablets. I am calling them out on it because it's slimy, counterintuitive, and ineffective since 90% of their target audience isn't going to use it as an e-reader anyways.

"if you have to ask the price, then you can't afford it"

I agree. But I'm not sure if there is the right audience for this thing to begin with.

I like minimalist stuff. I sometimes work on a pocket CHIP computer. My favorite phone is a Nokia 1280. One time I bought a Kindle Fire, was immediately disappointed and opted out for the classic black and white one right away. This device, however, is a fake and I saw that immediately through their landing page which is anything but minimalistic. It is annoying and distracting, and in terms of "effort you put" to "info you get" it is just horrible.

Now the comments have just proven my suspicion. The device is just an overpriced tablet. Not even e-Ink.

Some information on the screen and that it's a transflective LCD and not an e-paper display as implied on the site.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac-qtk2lmk

I think it's fair to call it e-paper since it's reflective. It's not e_ink_ of course, and I believe in a previous thread they mentioned it's not bistable (needs power to maintain the image).

If it doesn't have retention, then it's not. Otherwise, Gameboy's display also qualifies as e-paper.

Isn't it transreflective LCD, not eink? Looks like it's too late to update the title, but this is sort of a big deal. Many people have been confused about this critical point, and some have blamed the company for the confusing/misleading language regarding the display technology.

It does not have the viewing angle or battery life of an eink device (though it doesn't have the lousy refresh rate, either).

A couple of reviews:

- https://om.co/2024/05/18/daylight-tablet/

- https://arun.is/blog/daylight-tablet/

Previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456834

This makes me think of the Minimal Phone: https://www.minimalcompany.com/

Ive been hunting for a phone that would make web surfing/youtube less appealing while not preventing me from using things like spotify and uber and i’m looking forward to seeing the reviews when it comes out.

I am exceedingly curious if the Minimal Phone will ever actually exist, since I never trust IndieGoGo projects as a rule.

It looks like a cool concept at least!

Man, that landing page is abysmal. I was a bit excited because I cannot see a screen in anything approaching bright light. but I just cannot make sense of the information on that page.

It kind of makes me feel like I'm on one of those fair style indoor rides that turn 90 degrees randomly and jump scare you with panels that pop out.

The landing page is rather out of sorts with their message - quite gimmicky and full of distractions.

As someone who isn't up to speed with the world of epaper devices, sorry if this is an ignorant question, but what does this offer over the Remarkable?

That website needs to be taken out and shot.

I love the idea of Daylight Computers, but I'm not sure I'd really get to use it for much. I suppose reading newsletters and forum posts might be my current best use case, but that's not even a daily activity for me.

However! Smooth digital handwriting is appealing to me for note-taking. Does anyone know what the state of handwriting interpretation software is? If I could seamlessly write down notes and have them converted into text in Logseq, I might be able to stop buying notebooks.

EDIT: Oh, wow. I echo the sentiments here about pricing, too. That's a huge turn-off.

I've seen similar things. I'll say again:

I would love an e-ink display on a general purpose linux computer, as an optional screen. I can't use an esoteric tablet for productivity, so I wouldn't use this. And I can't use an e-ink screen for certain things that require color accuracy + refresh, so I couldn't use an e-ink for all of my work, so I probably wouldn't use it as a daily driver.

I do own a remarkable, and I use it once a week or so. it does not claim to replace a computer, it's just a digitized scratchpad + e-reader.

2 months ago. 858 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456834

The site still has the same scroll lag that was reported several times in the original thread.

An idea for e-paper tablets - I hate having to switch between a pdf and a note taking app, or having to write on the pdf itself. give me a translucent overlay on which I can write, but make it available separately from the pdf.

I've never liked any sort of "minimalist" computer or any product in the same vein as this. Never found any sort of use for it. If I want a computer (or any electronic device, really), I want the best one that I can buy at that price point with the most functionality. If I want to take a break from electronics, I can just use pen and paper. No point in shelling out hundreds of dollars for a tablet with less functionality. Perhaps if it was cheaper I could (maybe) considering using it.

I want to like this. I have a thing for epaper/eink. But I really don't know what I would use this for, for pretty much the same reasons I don't have any other tablet computer today. My sole "tablet" is a RM2 that I use exclusively for note-taking. It seems like most tablets it makes a lot of trade-offs that just make it inherently less useful than having a laptop. I'll just count this as me not being in their target market.

eink display strapped to a cheap android tablet and a pile of marketing hype.

Once people realize how the display randomly leaves old junk on the screen and requires a manual refresh to fix and the software is a barely modified from stock AOSP let alone has sufficient modifications to make use with this screen possible, this will be right behind the Rabbit R1 and that stupid AI pin as worst product of the year.

It's not an E Ink display. It's a transreflective LCD.

They don't list the full price on the website - just a payment link for a deposit of $100. Not sure why the aren't transparent with it.

Because it's 730$

Expensive. Android (so basically just as distracting as usual). May not even be eInk but rather rLCD. Lame.

Seems to just be a transflective LCD, right? Maybe with some special coating to give it that paper look.

That's really cool! I love iA Writer, it's so pleasing on the eye, and I really enjoy the focus mode. This reminds me of some of those writing devices from the early 2000s that did nothing but save text.

I wish the device had a camera tbh. It doesn't have to be a great camera tbh, but I think having the ability to take pictures of documents and scan stuff in is quite important.

From where I stand, the ReMarkable 2 appears to be the better and more capable product.

I thought e-ink had a refresh rate limitation. What’s happening here. Anyone every design in e-ink?

It's not actually e-ink like other devices, it's a different display tech where they've managed to basically nail it.

I'd love to see a full size display like this.

Sounds like vaporware.

It's LCD with a reflective backing they've put alot of effort into finetuning. Really not that implausible. Remember the Pebble wasn't e-ink either.

It's not vapourware, it exists and a view of any demo will reassure.

They've just done a very good job.

If anyone has pointers to how this mode works I'd be interested. It's 160dpi, which is lower than some eInk displays but faster refresh rate is good. Not using PWM to manage brightness is also good.

This thread with the founder has more details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491

Dasung has eink HDMI monitors that have quite a high refresh rate. For a 25” monitor it runs about $1700. https://shop.dasung.com/

‘Quite high’ is still not what you’d think of as ‘quite high’ if you’d never experienced earlier versions of eink though.

LTT on YouTube has some video reviews of Dasung’s displays. I know tastes vary when it comes to LTT - and they focus on some ridiculous things in the reviews (Can you game on them? Obviously, no.) but if you get past that I do think the videos do a a good job of showing how the monitors feel.

https://youtu.be/-ZXrJRpA0Jw?si=8yXfAG34vLZDRwXi

https://youtu.be/aVUxxn53mBE?si=O-Vcpk4mzQECghHn

Have you used one? I have not (so this a genuine question!)

I am really skeptical of the ‘paper-like’ quality it supposedly has. Are the viewing angle and glare really not noticeable?

More holistically, does it actually ‘seem like’ paper in the same way a Kindle does? If it does not, I’m very down on calling it ‘e-paper’.

Its not e-ink, its an ordinary transflective LCD display, similar to what you’d find on a digital watch or the Game Boy.

From what I understand it's an LCD with some kind of coating they developed.

It's not eInk but a transflective LCD, so in fact, completely different technology-wise. While it has faster refresh rate, it is not bi-stable, has lower contrast, worse viewing angles, etc. The main thing it has in common with eInk is that it works without a backlight.

I honestly can’t get a solid feel for precisely what makes this different than what I can already buy and the website doesn’t help.

I’m highly skeptical of a product that leans this heavily on selling a feeling.

Yep. This messaging style works better when the backing company already has a brand and trusted vision.

Can’t find a price on mobile. I see a $100 deposit, but no final price.

It seems like it was originally reported to be $799 [1] but more recent articles say $729 [2] [3].

[1] https://goodereader.com/blog/tablet-slates/introducing-new-d...

[2] https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163225/daylight-dc1-tab... [3] https://liliputing.com/daylight-computer-dc-1-is-a-799-table...

The animated web site is exhausting and distracting. It literally made me dizzy, and I do not get dizzy.

I doubt they have all the apps I need.

I stopped looking that that point.

Not e-ink though, “e-ink like”

$800 for a hobbled monochrome LCD Android tablet. Big NOPE.

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