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Comment by cheeze | Hacker News Reader

Couldn't a security conscious user just use their own APs/Router?

Sure, it’s what I do as a Verizon->Frontier->Ziply FiOS user. But most users are not going to go out and procur a bunch of Ubiquiti equipment or whatever, they’re going to take the defaults.

Also, with services like Xfinity, the monthly cost is substantially lower if you are using their router. This is because they scan the traffic for ad targeting, but most people don't care and don't want to buy their own router and then have to pay more per month to use it.

Really? How much lower? I have had my own modem so long I never knew this. Not that I would switch to theirs.

This must be new. It's been about 8 years since I've had Xfinity but I always had my own modem and router and got a discount (i.e. didn't have to "rent" the modem).

Iirc it was something small like $5 or $15 a month... I really only did it for the better hardware and software.

This was earlier in the year, we had started hitting the monthly data caps on our plan and getting penalized.

I went in and the unlimited plan was about $15 less per month using their modem/router than my own (which I already had), plus the router was free (I'm not paying a monthly equipment "rental" fee).

One annoyance was that their router didn't allow spaces in the WiFi password, so I had to reconfigure all my devices.

I could set up the router in bridge mode where it acts like a dumb modem and continue to use my own router, but I have not bothered with that.

Most of the CPE from various ISPs I've seen are barely powered enough to keep track of enough NAT connections. They're handing out devices capable of DPI on 100mb/s+ connections now?

I have heard that in some markets the only way to get unlimited service from Comcast (with no monthly cap) is to use their hardware.

I thought it was more using their router, especially over time. They charge $15/month for the router/modem which doesn’t sound too bad, but is $180/year on a device that retails for $180 or so. And they’ll happily keep charging that, forever - long past when their costs and a reasonable profit have been made.

They also force you to share your cable/wifi connection with other Xfinity users who are near you. Buying your own router and modem is a much better deal.

I've never been offered a better deal with Comcast/Xfinity for using their modems or hardware. Renting their stuff is $10/mo and a modem is $100, last I bought something like 5 years ago now, for a higher end one that supports gigabit service.

So, $100 or pay $10/mo forever, and over the past 5 years that $10 would be $600, or $500 saved by buying my own modem.

I use my own modem and router with XFinity, and I don't pay any more for doing it. In fact, I pay a little bit less because I'm not paying the monthly equipment rental fee.

That is, as long as I stay on top of it. Every 3 months like clockwork, they "forget" that I'm not renting their equipment and start billing me for it. I have to call them up and remind them.

Large scale wire fraud that will never be prosecuted.

Sure, but then a forgotten password is your problem.

Honestly it would never even occur to me to call my ISP to help if I'd forgotten my wifi password.

Also I feel like if you are concerned about forgetting your wifi password you'd probably just keep the one that's written on the device (and which is probably quite a bit more secure than the password you'd come up with yourself).

Xfinity these days will have the tech set up your WiFi with your password. It's an integrated device so he'll set up the cable internet and then your WiFi. Monkeybrains is all "you're set up!" and then you add your own WiFi router. Sonic has you set up your own WiFi. AT&T has the WiFi password printed on the device along with the admin password.

That's my experience with ISPs in SF. It's clear that many people don't buy Internet access. They buy "WiFi" which is that Xfinity integrated service. The components don't matter.

I'm certain that nearly most, if not all users on hacker news have a pretty solid mental model of the basics of how internet connection works, and the responsibilities between the computer or device, wifi, home router, ISP, and internet web sites or other services.

But I've assisted people who's mental model is simply "Verizon put this box in my home and now I have internet". Who panic when a site doesn't load, and will call the first person they think is responsible for the problem. (typically, the company that gave them internet). Or more commonly nowadays, "my phone is my internet connection" -- and the only thing they think they have the power to do is to wave the phone in the air to find 'more bars'.

I suppose it makes sense from Verizon's (or any ISPs) perspective, and honesty, if you understand how all this works, then you understand how to trivially eliminate the issue, and then of course, you know when and when not to call Verizon with problems. (Of course, it'd be awful nice if they offered 'Shibboleet' [1] service for folks who do undertsand when the problem is between the site and the router.) HOWEVER, it'd be nice if they were more upfront with the disclosure of this password sharing ...

1: https://xkcd.com/806/

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