Hacker News Reader

Comment by Broken_Hippo | Hacker News Reader

I wouldn't get my hopes up. Seems like the language of change with ways out of actually doing change. From the article: Each product has to fall into one of four categories: made by a seller (either by hand or using automated tools), designed by a seller, handpicked by a seller, or sourced by a seller.

Easy for something mass produced to be handpicked by a seller or sourced by a seller.

View on HN

> handpicked by a seller, or sourced by a seller

Yes, those are categories that shouldn't be on a site that is what Etsy claims they want to be.

I disagree. this category importantly covers funky old retro items, some of which border on antique. For example, I've sought out and bought from Etsy 1940's dishes and kitchen implements, collected by little Etsy shops that specialize in such things.

That's a legitimate market for sure, but I don't think it belongs on Etsy. The company Etsy could (and should) start up a different website for that sort of thing, and even a different site yet for the more dropshippy things. They could even cross-promote their sites with each other.

maybe they could call that different site eBay?

Your 1940s example is clearly "vintage" under the previous terms.

"Vintage items must be at least 20 years old" - https://web.archive.org/web/20180221040206/https://www.etsy....

Old: "Everything listed for sale on Etsy must be handmade, vintage, or a craft supply."

New: "everything listed for sale on Etsy must be made, designed, handpicked, or sourced by a seller."

They never enforced those rules. All sorts of mass production wooden items were listed in Etsy, Amazon and alibaba at the same time.

Sure. But this thread concern's JohnFen's comment "those are categories that shouldn't be on a site that is what Etsy claims they want to be" and PeterHolzwarth opposition, saying it should allow "funky old retro items, some of which border on antique", and my observation that Etsy previously claimed they allowed those retro items.

I have bought vintage on Etsy. Fine stuff. Could be labelled "vintage" with a requirement of >25y age.

Their definition is >20 years, as it happens.

My bad.

Anyway, doesn't the new change mean that it was 20 and is 0 years?

Not even being glib but how could any product not fall into one of those 4 categories?

Stolen goods maybe? Though that may qualify as 'sourcing' with a broad enough interpretation.

I would expect a stolen wallet sold on Etsy to have been hand picked by an artisinal scoundrel.

That's the point. Pretty much everything can fall into one of the 4 categories. No change is necessary for that to happen - all this at a time when folks are complaining that the site is full of mass produced stuff they could order themselves.

> Easy for something mass produced to be handpicked by a seller or sourced by a seller.

Being able to filter out those would be nice. I wonder what counts as made/designed though. If assembling something counts as "made" or slapping a logo on a white label product counts as "designed" then it's not much of an improvement.

A faithful interpretation of the rules to accomplish what the article says they want would be that handpicked means that the seller goes shopping at markets and chooses items to resell. Sourced means that they have an artisinal manufacturer they directly work with and they do the wholesale purchase/import and then sell on Etsy.

For example, I want some nearly unique leather shoes.

1. I find a shoemaker on Etsy who is selling their wares. 2. I find a shoe designer on Etsy 3. I find a shoe on Etsy whose seller has purchased vintage shoes from another store. 4. I find a shoe on Etsy that is from an importer who works with a shoemaker in Leon, Mexico.

Those are all what I would expect to find in an artisinal store. I could see how these could be abused to support Temu, but also how you could enforce them to remove listings that are abusive.

sourced by a seller - carefully curated from Temu?

That’s often how it works now. My wife uses Etsy as a Pinterest for Temu. She just finds the original listing and orders it direct from Temu.

It is also often the reverse: sellers on Temu (or Ali Express, or any number of other sites) selling knock-off versions of hand-crafted items spotted on Etsy and elsewhere. Heck, sometimes the knock-offs are sold on Etsy too, often using the original maker's images (I doubt the product received will be anything close to an exact match). A friend of mine doses corsetry and related clothing work and sells in part through Etsy, and occasionally has a significant problem with this.

It’s definitely a cycle. Pre-Temu/AliExpress I worked at a store that sold high end purpose made knives and low end “fantasy” knives. As soon as a factory was opened in China by a major brand the original (sans branding) would suddenly show up in the same catalog as the fantasy knives at 1/5 MSRP and an inferior knock off at 1/20th MSRP; all the high tech designer steels and plastics replaced by 440 and ABS or Micarta. It’s the way business is often done in their manufacturing economy.

I know what BS

“The platform’s new rules require all items to incorporate “a human touch” as outlined by its creativity standards”

That’s just as bad as hand crafted pizza in the frozen grocery aisle - yes at one point someone had to design this pizza, then they crank them out on a machine like everything else.

> at one point someone had to design this pizza, then they crank them out on a machine like everything else.

Yep. By that measure, every mass-produced item you can buy was "hand crafted" at some point.

This could be useful if they allow search filtering. Sometimes I may want something artisanal, other times I may not care much about the artisanal qualities and curated is good enough.

Do you really think folks are going to be honest about this?

Exactly. If a manufacturer finds that it will sell 5% more simply by labeling something "artisanal" then they will label all of their products "artisanal." How is Etsy going to know if product number 12,440,911 is artisanal or not. Like "organic," I don't even know what artisanal means anymore. They have become magic checkbox words that increase sales.

What does "curated" mean when the obvious move is to just sell whatever you find on AliExpress? I would be extremely skeptical that someone who sells "curated" products like this actually evaluates each product they're selling.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com