Google Maps tests new pop-up ads that give you an unnecessary detour
androidauthority.com
androidauthority.com
When news came out that those routes were being chosen to make the app more "inclusive", I found it amusing how someone in Palo Alto presenting a PowerPoint with a couple of ESG slides could lead to someone else being shot with an AK-47.
If the above sounds unreal: https://www.reddit.com/r/brasilivre/comments/mtfwfq/carro_do...
source? The above link only seems to support the claim there's armed people on streetview, not that google is directing people to crime ridden areas for "ESG" purposes.
The link in the OP is an example of what people may encounter if they follow said routes https://www.euronews.com/2016/12/10/italian-tourist-killed-a...
Problems with the veracity of those statements aside, at best the it confirms that google cares about being "inclusive", but the same source also specifically says that current routes are "objective", which disproves op's claim that "routes were being chosen to make the app more "inclusive""
There was a viral thread a month or two ago from an ex-Google Maps employee talking about how that'd never be considered, because tl;dr, doing that would be a great example of steering at scale leading to unintended consequences.
Not sure if they misunderstood that thread, or they're just wholesale riffing.
I do!
> but,
buckles up
> sadly, I would not be surprised if it were.
On my end, I'm sad people make up silly things that'd never happen, to claim that it could happen, so they can express their sadness.
There's better options!
ex. here: I'm sad because it's near 4 PM [EDIT: f***, after 4 PM!], and I got a bunch of failing integration tests to fix after rushing a feature, over a long holiday weekend, for an investor who has been AWOL for a week. When I take a step back, my harsh review of myself is I'm unconsciously getting my mind off it, because it makes me feel better because it's easy to be correct when people aren't trying to be. But really, I'm just burning time I could be using to wrap up work.
So, in other words, it's totally made up.
It's got the vibes of: "Now, we can't verify that that's true, but it certainly sounds right." - Tucker Carlson[1]
1: https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/tucker-massive-conflict-w...
You work for Google, though. Why should your word be trusted over the others'?
Why would we limit ourselves to the set of not-Googlers? That is prima facie irrational and incorrect. Best case is there's a googler out here saying it, all you'd have to do is check in a week if they still had a job.
Self-peasantization isn't a virtue
I'm not sure what you're referring to with Google Maps deciding to direct people through low-income areas.
There was a recent thread, maybe a month ago, about how they don't do that, only do the most straightforward route, because redirecting traffic would cause as much bad as good. Unintended consequences and all that.
For what it's worth, a few more straightforward things:
- Google HQ is in Mountain View, not Palo Alto
- Google uses Google Slides, not PowerPoint
- ESG stands for "environmental, social, and governance" and refers to investors allocating money based on longer-term criteria beyond next quarter's results.
Gas?! ESG stands for environmental, social, and governance.
That's a slightly misleading way of characterizing ESG. "allocating money based on longer-term criteria beyond next quarter's results" is just "investing", or "long-term investing". ESG refers specifically to considering or changing company's environmental (eg. pollution) and social impact (eg. workforce diversity), as well as improving its governance practices. Sure, its proponents think doing the aforementioned things will improve the company's financial performance as well, but your characterization deliberately obfuscates what ESG actually involves.
B: "ESG refers specifically to considering or changing company's environmental (eg. pollution) and social impact (eg. workforce diversity), as well as improving its governance practices"
B: "[thus showing] A is deliberately obfuscating"
!?!?, two sets of !? for two different levels, one is there being precious little air between what I said and what you said. I frankly don't see any at all, is the idea that saying it comes from finance / investing is misleading??
The other is for the personal attack via mindreading.
I called it "slightly misleading" because 1/3rd of what you wrote was devoted to explaining what it actually is, but the rest is (seemingly) trying to defend it by discussing the most banal/non-central aspect of it. The reason why investors care about ESG isn't because "allocating money based on longer-term criteria beyond next quarter's results", neither is that why ESG detractors hate on it. What you're doing is similar to describing redlining as "banks deciding where to lend money, and refers to them trying to trying to manage risk". Sure, everything in that statement is technically true, and redlining ostensibly was about managing risk, but describing in that is misleading because it mischaracterizes what the controversy surrounding it is.
So I wasn't wrong, I just left out the controversy? Please, do share the controversy! Please, let it be more than the Palo Alto PowerPoint ESG presentation that required Brazil Google Maps to route people into gang controlled territory to be killed by AK47s.
Any more thoughts on the "deliberately misleading" part? Or are you leaving it there?
I'm not sure how you got the impression that I thought the google maps ESG claim was true. If you check my other comments you'd see that I expressed skepticism about it.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40909047
>Any more thoughts on the "deliberately misleading" part? Or are you leaving it there?
"deliberately misleading" was never something I wrote. I did write "deliberately obfuscating", which I stand by for the reasons mentioned in my previous comment.
I'm not sure how you got the impression that I thought you thought the google maps ESG claim was true. If you check my other comments, you'd see I never said that.
Any ideas on what the controversy is that I deliberately obfuscated?
I'm bored and tired of inviting you to explain your mind-reading. I'll skip to why sharing your mind-reading is not only rude, but irrational:
Is it possible people use "ESG" as a boogie-man when complaining?
Put another way: am I deliberately obfuscating, or are you steel-manning nonsense?
Put another way, longer:
Imagine someone complains: "This restaurant's new menu is clearly pandering to ESG trends!"
Person A (steel-manning): "They must be referring to the complex interplay between sustainable sourcing, labor practices, and pandering to DEI values in the restaurant industry."
Person B (simple interpretation): "They probably just added a few vegan options and are upset about it."
In this case, Person A's attempt to find depth in a shallow complaint leads them far astray from the actual, much simpler issue at hand.
https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/18ieg6d/17yearold_te...
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/man-fr...
Google truly is nothing but a huge venus fly trap that kills its prey by injecting ads.
The biggest barrier to services adding ads isn't anything like enshittification or market lock-in or whatever, it's that ad-delivery is hard and it takes large, mature company with lots of users to both sport the manpower to get it done and enough eyeballs to make the ROI positive. All those little stupidly named ad-supported streaming platforms that are popping up are almost always backed by a larger company's ad network. Tubi is Fox, Xumo is Comcast, Freevee is Amazon.
That would be fine if they respected us enough to say "ad-free is too niche of a feature to be worth it to us, we're pulling it".
Maps is a prime example of the costs from not enforcing antitrust laws. Google spent billions of dollars from its ad monopoly to control this market and is now squeezing it for all it can. This product is only going to get worse for the foreseeable future.
The alternative to "Google spent billions of dollars from its ad monopoly to control this market" (ie. a non-subsidized maps app) is you paying $100 for a dedicated GPS device, paying $30/year for tomtom[1], or using a free app like organic maps. All of those are still options today. What exactly is "the cost" from letting google subsidize its maps app? Do you think that if such anti-trust laws were enforced, maps would still be free and ad-free?
[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tomtom-go-navigation/id8849633...
No I'm not expecting that there would be a perpetually free and ad-free option, that wouldn't make any sense. But the space of possibility is vastly more broad than totally free or the dreck that Google Maps has turned into.
1. Limited distractions. 2. Traffic Lights, Stop signs are so easy to follow! 3. Lanes are rendered very clearly.
Of course, once in every other blue moon I have to open Google Maps when I find myself in an alley with no outlet, while Apple Maps is telling me to drive through the building.
The interface is really the best, but the route finding is the worst of any apps which I used. I had to go back and find a different route many times. And the speed limit was completely useless everywhere, random guess is better. Not that any option would be perfect, Waze and Google Maps have their own problems.
Also worked flawlessly in London across multiple transit modes (tube to thameslink, etc).
Driving directions have also been far superior at least in the way us Americans give directions (including quirks like “take a left at the second light” as opposed to just robotically naming streets)
Google does seem to have the upper hand for special cases like public holidays sometimes, but even those can be added in OSM.
Google really incentivizes users to fix map data (like business info) and, after doing so, shows you popups like "Your change was seen by 10,000 people!". Really good UX. Yet, I was only doing free work for a mega corp which doesn't feel as satisfying (and I stopped doing so).
Though in the spirit of "be the change you want to see", it's pretty easy to add opening hours any business you notice is missing them. Every Door and Street Complete are good, user-friendly editors on mobile.
Yes, there are companies whose job it is to get opening hours to various sites. Someone like Walmart will write a contract, and send a regular spreadsheet. The company then processes the spreadsheet, and pushes data out to Google, Facebook, Apple, and so on.
I know this because I was the lead developer at one of those companies for a while. Everyone except OSM is happy to accept an address, maybe a suite number, and then information about phone numbers, opening hours, holiday hours, and so on. OSM insists on detailed geolocation data. If you don't have it, then they won't take your data. Period.
You have the name and address of the mall, and a suite number? Facebook will just report that. Google will take your data and separately figure out how to map out where it is in the mall if it is important. OSM refuses to take the data.
You have data from Walmart with every Walmart address, and every department's phone number, opening hours, holiday hours, and so on? Apple, Yelp, and so on will love you for it. OSM tells you that they need the store layout.
We asked OSM about it. Their answer? I kid you not. "Send someone to the store and map it out then." They really have no clue about how much sending someone to the store costs, and how little these intermediary companies get paid to provide the data. What they demand. Will. Not. Happen.
What OSM should do is provide a way to accept that data in a feed, then let any volunteer tie the feed to the geomapped location. That way between a local volunteer and the companies that supply everyone else, they'd get the standard data that everyone else has.
They don't. After looking at the economics, we had to go hat in hand to Walmart and apologize. "We know that you wanted to be on OSM, but this is what it will take to do it. We can't do that, and we're going to have to take the penalty in the contract."
Yeah, you heard that right. Walmart wanted to cooperate with OSM. But because OSM put roadblocks in place for us, it didn't happen. Not due to lack of popularity to crowdsource information. But because OSM developers have their heads firmly up their asses when it comes to figuring out how to deal with businesses who actively want to deal with them.
Add a few pins when browsing or searching to related things. If they're similarly relevant (i.e. I search for "Chick-fil-a" Sunday, show me other chicken shops), the conversion rate could be pretty solid.
I mean, what are they doing with that information ultimately? Probably serving you ads somewhere, right?
Unfortunately, the Hyindai routing is not as good, and does sometimes make odd mistakes.
We use the Hyundai navigation 99% of the time.
Submit an update, accepted, and now working as expected. Three weeks later and it's back to broken again. It's like every update just wipes the corrections that have been submitted.
"Fuel-efficient routing
By building AI models on the emissions profile of different vehicle types, fuel-efficient routing in Google Maps analyzes traffic, terrain, and the vehicles engine (gas/petrol, diesel, hybrid, or electric) to find the most efficient route. This may mean fewer stops for gas engines, routes favoring highway speeds for diesel vehicles, and maximizing downhill stretches for electric cars to boost regenerative braking all while providing the same or similar ETA."
https://www.gstatic.com/gumdrop/sustainability/google-2024-e...
I wonder why the shareholders allow this.
Google losing market share will be a big problem for the company.
But hey, some fractions of a cent earned now.
I have only played with OSM...and, honestly, I'm not going to complain if the ads are at a reasonable volume/quantity, and if they're only displayed while stationary...But, if they kick this off at a higher clip of number of ads, AND, they stat showing them while moving...Then forget that, i'd switch to OSM or other alternatives, and rather risk getting lost a little. Paper maps anyone? :-)
The screen was completely covered with garbage, top and bottom. It wasn't even ads, but "parks and cool stuff to do near here" which is not remotely what I wanted right then. No obvious way to get rid of it, either.
Take your complaints years ago to Waze.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-brings-waze-and-maps-te...