NexDock turns your smartphone into a laptop
nexdock.com
nexdock.com
More recently I've been impressed with my steam deck's desktop mode that's a fairly no-frills Linux distro, its use of flatpaks everywhere is kind of annoying though. When it's good enough to make a game for steam deck on the steam deck with e.g. godot and blender, it's good enough for a lot of other things. I've been chucking it in with my travel laptop for trips, but one of these times I'm going to have to try just taking it alone with just a mouse and keyboard to complement.
It'd make it a lot harder to sell macs, but it would be an absolutely killer device.
I could see Mac doing something like the Surface Book form factor. Basically an iPad MacBook hybrid with more power.
I’m willing to believe in this case it’s because they want the Mac to survive. I’m sure every Mac is profitable (in accord with one of Apple’s core values) but Mac sales are pretty tiny compared to other products.
Even when Apple fans say “St Stephen would be rolling in his grave if they got rid of the Mac”, he famously said he’d milk the Mac for all it was worth while doing the next thing.
Separately, there’s already a ton of writing on why iPad and Mac won’t completely converge
The iPhone streaming to Mac is most likely much more about improving AR inthe future than anything to do with Mac. Mac is just an easy platform to get more users using it.
Just like the new iPhone coming out this year isn't for the people who upgrade every year. It'll feel like a "spec bump".
BUT it's for the people whose phone is dropping out of support after 5-7 years of major version upgrades. For them it's a massive leap of performance and features. Just imagine jumping from an iPhone XR to an iPhone 16?
Same with the Vision Pro. Apple finally releases a Pro device that's just for Pro(sumer)s and people complain it's too expensive.
It's the first version, they see what 3rd party devs can and want to do with it and release a new one. There's a rumoured patent about headphones with an external camera for hand tracking, which is a clear evolution of the one in the Vision Pro.
At some point it might even become a "licensing" proposition: If you are registered (or once-connected) or some such as having a desktop, you will get Desktop features on your other devices ...
(Of course once you buy the very expensive Apple brand docks, and keyboards and dongles and cables and adapters and (perhaps) extra monthly fees that you will need ...
Maybe they might couple this with their AI efforts, in making their whole "AI product" into a hardware "box" that you need (even if the box is "dumb" and "Amazon-echo like" ...
... I am guessing Apple will be the first to "commoditize" AI. Perhaps via hardware. Expensive hardware. Apple hardware ...)
none of these things exist, or show any hint of existing. i'd love apple to make an apple dock. they don't because they don't need to; apple hardware uses thunderbolt 4, so thunderbolt docks work. (i do wish apple would support MST in their laptops though, so I can get multiple monitors connected via a single dock without that silly DisplayLink nonsense, but not even an apple dock could get around this limitation.)
your paranoia about apple-proprietary docks, keyboards, dongles, cables, adapters and (perhaps) monthly fees, are completely off-base from what I've seen out of apple.
...and i'm not even an apple fan.
I personally prefer wireless headphones when using a phone, because having the cable often required that you either have the phone out and in your hand the whole time, because the cable is too short, or somehow the headphone cable is far too long and it gets caught on everything as you move around. I understand wanting to have the option, of course, and I recognize that not everyone shares my preferences.
Having designed electronic circuit boards in the past, I also know that the removal of a connector is always considered a "win". connectors suck and are the source of a lot of problems down the line, especially if they are for connecting to the outside world.
Next time Jon Stewart talks to Lina Khan, they discuss enabling the multiuser support in all the Apple OSes. Lina then does discovery against Apple where it turns out that product managers inside of apple have been trying to do this for years, esp in markets where a device per person doesn't work, but a shared device would. Bootlicking MBAs say that news of this would get back to high margin markets and rich families would be pissed because they just bought ipads (baby sitters) for all their children.
While we are at it, once a device goes out of support, it should be fully unlocked for the user with sufficient documentation so that alternative OSes can be installed.
The hardware that is my gen1 iPad still functions perfectly.
Macbook pro for coding and designing in figma and light gaming, web browsing
iPad mini for reading, travelling, sketching with apple pencil.
iPhone for doing phone things.
Sure I buy 3 devices (4 if you count apple watch) but they last several years and have decent resale value.
Same reason I am not carrying a point-and-shoot, a phone, a navigation system and a pda. Same reason I use a laptop instead of multiple desktop computers.
Related question: on the pixel phones you could just run full windows in a VM, but for other devices it was "coming soon". What happened to that? I don't need convergence right now, if I can just run the desktop OS in a VM.
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-13-dp1-google-pixel-6...
- Tim Cook probably.
If I had that, I probably wouldn't also get a battery-powered monitors, so I'd still need electricity to interact with the mini PC.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807111740362.html
It's running a painfully weak N100 though.
Samsung used to support running real Linux instead of Dex but that project was cancelled unfortunately. I don't have many problems with modern Android Dex, though, at least not ones that I also have with Windows on laptops.
I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff. The thought of cramming all of those head-spaces into one device feels stressful, like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'm always very happy when I hear about updates to DeX or new convergence docks though
Sounds reasonable.-
PS. As a counterpoint to that, many will I am sure remember how one PC *was* everything and one did everything on it. One per household, even ...
* counts 4 in the living room, about 10 servers in the lab, probably 20 computers in total in my single person home not including raspberry pis, mobiles or tablets :)
(Yet, I am sure, not atypical nowadays - if a bit above the mean ...)
I really love DeX and I just spent a whole week working with it as my primary computing device. I don't have a mobile dock though. The reason being that they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
True. Probably one of the biggest obstacles to adoption. Their price point pretty much overlaps with an entry-level laptop.-
Of all the things on my phone, the only thing I feel like I absolutely can't live without (in my phone) is my OneBusAway app that tells me when my next bus is coming.
Also: /shameless-plug-for-free-and-awesome-app :)
The same is true about these devices: yes, in a pinch you can grab that document and search for something but really when editing it you want not just a keyboard and larger display, but a bit more horsepower and different apps.
So I use to think a fancy dock like this would be good, but their continued failure has taught me a lot.
PS. I quite distinctly remember the point in time when I finally said my then desktop machine couldn't move video, and it really was time to consider an upgrade ...
(My 500 Mhz K6 II - DAE remember those AMD chips? - had finally become too slow. Video was 'unstoppable' ...
They felt like 1080p at the time.
That said, I could have and should have said Bluray, which came out in 2006 and did do 720 and 1080
At some point I procured a 1600x1200 monitor… but not until a later job after 2k with an SGI was my computer able to handle that resolution comfortably.
You make an interesting point: This *is* some sort of breakthrough point: When "average human textual input bandwidth" was matched ...
(This might be comparable to AI: Now we are trying to match "average human processing capacity" ...
Sluggish modem websites have no one to blame but themselves.
This really puts things in perspective ...
I think nostalgia gives rise colored glasses when if you were to put these things side by side you’d never actually go back.
Sure.-
(But "good" and "portable" [keyboard] are antagonistic here ...
... maybe, perhaps, someday, one of these "newfangled" projected keyboards, chord keyboards, one-handed keyboards, foldable keyboards ...
... will hit the mainstream.-
Modern Motorola phones have a similar feature.
VNC has been around for a long time.
It just seems like something people don't want to use. I'm not sure why, though?
I think these type of formats are decent for travelers.
My brother is a zoomer and the only computing device in his house is his mobile phone and work laptop. He does absolutely everything on his phone. I think we’re moving away from separated devices, honestly
Nah, I used to think the same thing about desktop vs laptop but turns out once laptops got good enough to be a true desktop replacement it was much better to just have one device. Phones aren't there yet, even if the raw processor speed numbers suggest they should be.
"Roughly every decade a new, lower priced computer class forms based on a new programming platform, network, and interface resulting in new usage and a new industry."
So we can say, generally, mainframes, minicomputers, workstations, microcomputers, laptops, smart phones, and now wearables (watches, rings, wallets, bracelets, glasses, etc)
Next we'll have something I'll call the Mckenzie corollary (that's me I guess):
"Roughly a decade or two after introduction, the lower price computer class will subsume the upper price computing class."
So the minicomputers took on mainframe tasks. The workstations took on the minicomputer tasks. The microcomputers took on the workstation tasks. Laptops took on the micros. All this happened with a significant lag time.
And now, the smartphones are vying for the laptops.
These are superstructural transformations and take years because a bunch of new things need to be invented, developed, mastered and widely deployed for it to happen.
We are roughly in the wearables and phones-become-laptops epoch.
"[The evolution of] human society, is a unique historical process ... Its description, however, is not a law, but only a singular historical statement."
If it's been good for 60 years so that might continue or maybe something unexpected will happen.
Popper's piecemeal alternative predicts nothing. The market trend analysis is at least accurate > 0% of the time. It's a non-scientific process with unquantifiable accuracy but it is empirically non-zero. For instance, Geofferey Moore's adoption curves proposed in 1991 are widely found but, every now and then, the galloping animal is a zebra. This doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for horses.
Presuming a decade or two from now people will connect their wearables powered by kinetic charging to foldable e-paper with a transparent solar panel layer is just a bet.
Maybe something radical will happen instead: The public payphone will come back as a public computer that people will biometrically log into after shunning personal electronics as toxic spy machines ruining society. Eh, probably not, but maybe.
With permission, I am going to put that on a t-shirt :)
So steal away
(As is the intellectual honesty :)
(And, don't forget, "mass adopted" ...)
That's important. Even more expensive brands in the purely functional space like Tektronix, DeWalt and Zojirushi can still command a preference and not for the same reason as Patek Philippe or Christian Louboutin.
Also when preferences aren't considered, the base observation can become rather risky.
For example, it implies a majority of American cars will eventually be electric microcars like the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV or Chery QQ Ice Cream because:
1. Most cars on the road were bought used and these cars cost less than a used car.
2. The battery efficiency of the smaller vehicle means you can charge it without special hardware in reasonable time.
3. The vehicle speed and range are increasingly adequate to satisfy most consumers needs.
Do I think an EV microcar revolution is coming to the US? No. There's zero evidence of that. American consumer preferences would need to change first.
Fickle human behavior is an X factor in any market.
Preferences can change however. Pretend Apple comes out with iCar, a sleek electric microcar or Costco introduces Kirkland CarTwo, a practical second car that charges in a few hours on a normal outlet. Perfect for teenagers and easy to park in small spaces. Cost? $89/month for 48 months.
I basically just pitched the Geely Panda Mini EV or a number of similar cars which have been in production for years. The tech is here. The American preferences are not. Not yet.
I'd like to ignore American Consumer Preferences and talk about engineering examples.
Linux/OSS/MySQL: These were seen as toy alternatives to the real thing. Linux eventually displaced all the proprietary Unix operating systems. And it still isn't at feature parity with some of those OSes decades later.
Same goes for X86 and Arm.
High margin stagnant businesses often get consumed by a toy entrant that crosses that inflection point where it does what it needs to do for 20% of price. When the cost of something is less than your margin, you are screwed.
On the ACP in regards to vehicles. Americans have been conned into liking low-end vehicles wrapped in a high-end sheen. SUVs are high margin vehicles partially because they are cheap pickup trucks. US auto manufacturers got their asses handed to them imports from Japan, where people did prefer smaller, lighter more efficient vehicles. There was then an effort across all auto companies to change the tastes of US car buyers so that foreign vehicles couldn't compete.
# Semantic Scholar links for the paper, "Experimental evidence for tipping points in social convention"
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Experimental-evidence-...
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Supplementary-Material...
----
Evolution of opinions on social networks in the presence of competing committed groups
I've got an hour long talk with about 70 or so slides that talk about it
If only there were a standardized protocol enabling browsers (could be any smart terminal protocol, but browsers exist now, and would mostly work) to securely connect to nearby devices, maybe even require a physical connection if you want extra safety.
Then instead of a specific dock you could use just about any capable laptop or desktop as an environment.
I don't think it can be done at the moment without an on-internet intermediary. A local discovery and connection system that the terminal(browser) could be aware of. Maybe this could be shoehorned into existing systems like Bluetooth.
You could get an absurd usb connection working if the phone appeared as both a file store as well as a keyboard that types in the commands to launch itself. I see no potential pitfalls with that approach.
I miss the thing all the time.
This is a great way to put it. "Recipes" were ahead of their time, but half-baked ...
My Pinephone Pro runs Plasma Mobile and yeah you can just plug it in to a USB-C dock with HDMI out and a mouse+keyboard plugged in and it scales up into a slightly odd desktop:)
Agree this is a big factor, but with peripherals to extend your smartphone into a laptop you do still have to own multiple “devices” (discrete units of physical hardware). If you’re already gonna have to lug around a dongle/adapter and one or more pieces of hardware (mouse, keyboard, screen) to get the laptop experience, you might as well just lug around an entire laptop.
Also, “cloud” software (not just things like Google docs, but the widespread use of web applications allowing you to log in to some app from anywhere) has solved a lot of the biggest problems in this space. You can easily access all the important things on your phone from a laptop, unless you go out of your way to not upload something somewhere. So being able to convert a smartphone into a laptop is mostly about saving money on hardware (which may not be that much. Do you pay $200 for peripherals to get an underpowered laptop powered by a phone, or a mid-like laptop?) or addressing a very niche UX need.
The older model that I have has a pretty terrible trackpad, does not have a touch screen, and does not fold back (I normally use my ergonomic keyboard with it). I think these are all resolved in newer models though.
Indeed. What a combo ...
mount -t overlay -o "lowerdir=/usr,upperdir=/run/media/OVERLAY/overlay/usr,workdir=/run/media/OVERLAY/workdir/usr" none /usr
Idea being that every once in a while I pop out the SD card, run the standard steam update, then wipe the overlay and reinstall the stuff I was using (I have a script to make that more convenient). If it seems I really did somehow mess up their setup beyond repair I can just remove the card, reboot (I did do that once, but I don't think it was my fault).
Main issue I've run into is the fact that Valve upstream repo is a hackish snapshot of Arch that is not maintained and was not entirely consistent at time of creation and is using old gpg keys. So, while 95% of stuff installs using it, there's 5% that requires installing while ignoring the signature and just trusting valve's server, or pulling in an older lib (I symlinked in one from valve's steam runtime once).
The other not-ideal thing about Valve is they really don't prioritise security patching, at all. It's astounding given the device does have an sshd running. Not to mention older problems like wifi vulnerabilities. Fortunately the recent ssh cve has a config workaround, or I'd probably just force-install an sshd from arch instead, or disable starting at boot.
... oh and pulling in new signatures for people does help sometimes. pacman -S archlinux-keyring , pacman-key / --populate / --refresh-keys /-r exact@name.org ... and since /etc persists during updates, sometimes you have to tell pacman to --overwrite since a prior install might still exist there. You could work around that by backing up /etc but, eh, it hasn't been a problem so far :D - there were no collisions on first install to /etc for any of them, so I assume everything was playing nice with existing valve /etc. And, well, valve did make that directory writeable ...
I use it for anything, gaming, web surfing, developing and sometimes even work (it does raise a few eyebrows when I take it out of the bag)
The big problem is the connection between nextdock and steamdeck: if I connect it directly via single usb-c cable I lose the ability to charge the steamdeck (the nextdock does not supply enough energy for keeping the steamdeck charged) and I also lose a lot of io (next dock as only one fullsize usb 3.0 port) so instead I use the steam-deck-dock and connect it to the nextdock with two cable (hdmi e usb) so that I can keep the steamdeck fully charged.
I would love to find an usb-c cable splitter so that I can have a device simultaneously connected to an usb-c pd charger and a second connection only for usb data, there are some but none of them support usb alt mode necessary to use external screen.
That basically shattered my dream of leaving my work laptop at home on short business trips. Well, that and it weighs as much as a laptop anyway so there wasn't actually a benefit.
Might be kinda useful if the pendulum swings back towards actually storing all your data on your own devices instead of in the clown. And if anyone starts writing actual tools for Desktop Android.
That's the best typo ever, I had an extension for chrome many years ago that allowed to replace "cloud" with a different word for funsies because it was used everywhere, might ressurect it using clown.
PS. Actually, it might be a good word for "self hosted cloud" setups, where you "[c]loud [own] (as in, 'ownership')" your data and infra is under user control ...
(I was doing "portable" using a then-huge 8'' 'generic android phablet' with a foldable Bluetooth keyboard a few years back ...)
You can easily sync your media to a server you own (Immich or NextCloud), Notes can live in Obsidian, which syncs to a place you control etc.
No matter how much RAM, storage, or CPU power it has, a smartphone is ultimately still a locked-down media consumption device.
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser[0] is enough for you, we're already there. You do need to adjust how you work, and that's a huge sticking point for some people.
...and be constantly tied to the clown? No thank you.
The clown can be your own computer in this case, you can self-host the vscode server if you want. The you’re the clown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Accessories
Never bought but seemed interesting at the time.
Nice phone.-
Still, a great device to have around a pile of rPi's.
Although, I do prefer to just use my external LCD monitor .. far less likely to destroy the cables.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo#Docking_stations
My use case is actually accessing my desktop from bed. I ended up using something called an "overbed table" (with tilt adjust!) with a monitor arm on it. Monitor goes on the arm, peripherals go on the table. That way, I can mix and match into something I like.
But it's not really the same as a real lapdock, because it depends on the table. I can't easily move it around the room or anything. I can't use it in my lap, only on the table that floats above me. (I prefer the table in most cases, but the lap is sometimes useful.)
It'd be nice if I could easily move it between my bed and a real desk, for example. If on the table there were a lapdock I could simply pick it up, but with separate peripherals I cannot.
it's like a portable physical console in a laptop form factor. I carry it around and plug it into Raspberry Pis (via HDMI, not type-c alone) so I can get a physical console. I have a few smaller single board computers that I occasionally use it with as well. It folds completely backwards so you can use it as a monitor alone, if you want, and I do that with my MacBook so it's a 2nd monitor (or 3rd depending on where I am) and it's great.
It's just a single type-c cable to give the Steam Deck a keyboard and a larger, higher resolution screen, for games that don't do well with controller inputs. Plug in a mouse, turn off the trackpad, and you're gold.
This is far more than just a "turn your phone into a desktop" thing.
The SOC and storage you’re saving by using your phone aren’t the most expensive items. A good 14” screen, keyboard, trackpad and battery aren’t cheap. And if you’re paying $300 for them, you might as well throw in a few hundred dollars more and get a full laptop.
I can get a working LCD screen, keyboard and mouse from my local thrift shop for $20, whereas the cheapest new laptop is at least $200.
Very much so. For a number of years already.
What you described is actually an use case. Hadn't considered the 'second hand' peripheral options ...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C1VSRZ59/
You don't get the large display, but you get a full keyboard/trackpad for $50 at Amazon. It's great when I'm on the road or traveling and need to write stuff on Google Docs. I don't bring my laptop when I travel -- just my phone, iPad and a keyboard like the above. I get to travel really light.
Sadly, NexDock doesn't design their own products and has little influence over engineering decisions of their partners. They're just slapping their logo on it and reselling it. There's a dozen other brands selling the exact same product on Alibaba/Taobao.
[0] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/neptune-duo-preview/ [1] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_padfone-3965.php [2] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_transformer_tf101-3936.php
I have a Pixel and have owned Pixel phones for a while and it's a shame that Google is only just opening up HDMI external display on the Pixel 8!
It's a neat idea but I find it hard to succeed at scale.
I just need a second phone so I can control my phone now. The Samsung remote control alas doesn't work with Linux, otherwise maybe I could try that (although I doubt it's really be all that.for this remote control case).
In Android or DIY, sure it makes sense to offer a keyboard and possibly a bigger battery and more hardware resources as a dock. The only downside is now there's only 1 device that can be used instead of 2 discrete devices that can be used simultaneously and independently.
The only reason that thing might be useful, is if it were lighter, thinner and cheaper than the laptop, and it isn't.
Another reason to avoid these toys is because phones are not built for desktop-like work - they just overheat.
This. I am afraid it comes down to price point and physical specs ...
(And beyond some point they economically cannot get any better, for, as a manufacturer, you'd be almost rebuilding a notebook (as far as parts anyway) with a (decent) screen, keyboard, (some) electronics, etc.).-
And, at that point, of course ...
I love that I can just use my phone for virtually everything I use my laptop for (developing probably being the only obsticle).
I've been considering some of the other options out there for portable monitor/keyboards and these seem (so far) the most affordable option. I wonder how the build quality it.
I used to write software on my phone using termux (usually via DeX).
Samsung is not an option because they don’t security update their phone quick enough with the latest 0 day patches. If there’s monthly releases it’s full of patches a few months in the past.
On it's face, merging the device we have in our pocket and on our desk makes so much sense. The biggest difference being screen size.
I already owned a NexDock so this is just what I've stuck with. These days I'd probably recommend a PiKVM with a networked KVM switch, if you have like 4+ physical servers it can be cheaper + give networked access. With added complexity and failure points.
The Khadas Mind, which has been controversial in tech reviewer circles, kind of carries itself like that: https://www.khadas.com/mind
The pricing is all off, but the model has potential.
NexDock 360 works pretty well with the Pixel 8a in desktop mode so far
Anything that can be connected to an external display, keyboard, and mouse.
> why I should trust these people to pull it off when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing.
My NexDock has served me well for 7 years. Even if the company flopped tomorrow, it would continue to serve me for years. I don't see the risk here even if you don't trust the company to continue to thrive.
And while the site is badly designed, it does not have to explain why you should "trust these people". They should tell you what the product is, and for you to decide whether you like this product enough to buy it. Unless you suspect they'll run with your money (this isn't a kickstarter) or that the product claims are untruthful, trust is irrelevant.
The reason companies in this space fail is just because too few people have been interested in this class of product. Maybe one day, when smartphones are more powerful and these products are convenient enough.
> when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing
This has been "pulled off" successfully for a long time now. Nexdock themselves have been around and shipping different "convergence" products since at least 2016.
Do they offer international key layouts yet (Swedish specifically)?
Also i find the dimensions a bit funny, 320x240 :)
It's still using mirror mode by default. There's a Desktop mode you can enable in developer settings which works well with the NexDock hardware, but the desktop mode UI is still pretty buggy at the moment.
This will be the future, but only when Apple does this to their iPhones lineup; the experience will be consistent and seamless; I'm not a fan boy, but one thing i'm sure is that they will release this and it will be like working on macOS, but you have it in your pocket.
... and - methinks - couple it with JobsAI :)
... somehow, maybe through a "token hardware" AI device. "AIOT" (?).-
Ironically we're finally at a point now where phones have the power to run desktop-class applications without compromise. Most flagships phones are more powerful than the average laptop sold these days.
The user experience to operate / change modes was exceptionally poor. I figure plug in the HDMI from the computer plug in the provided USB cable and it's smooth sailing. but that was not the case at all.
Connecting a device was difficult to get working but it varied by which device.
I hope they are better now. It is a great idea.