Comment by tyrmored | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tyrmored | Hacker News Reader

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Article author here. I generally recommend against Janus because I think there's much more value in learning Vim's core behaviour thoroughly, which is best done by starting with a relatively minimal or even empty .vimrc file [1] and no plugins.

When a new user has a better command of vi basics and gets a better grasp on the actual limits of Vim's built-in behaviour, and has invested some time in crafting a configuration that suits them, personally, very well for their work and workflow they have, then they're in a much better position to select plugins judiciously and don't have to use a configuration they don't actually understand.

So far, everyone who's recommended Janus to me or asked me to write about it turned out to have a pretty poor understanding of vi-like editors in general.

For perspective, I see the oh-my-zsh [2] project much the same way. I firmly believe that it really is better to start from scratch so that you force yourself to develop an understanding of the applications you use.

Learning vanilla vi has a slightly less obvious side benefit, too -- it works everywhere. You can log into pretty much any Unix-like system and type vi, and something understandable will happen. POSIX [3] is intended to ensure that.

[1]: http://vimuniversity.com/samples/your-first-vimrc-should-be-...

[2]: https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh

[3]: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/vi...

I tend to agree with Yehuda Katz (a Janus co-creator) that training wheels like that which Janus offers are the best way to learn Vim. http://yehudakatz.com/2010/07/29/everyone-who-tried-to-convi...

I learned Vim the hard way because I was a student at the time, I was required to do so (or Vi at least) and I had the time to invest in it. For people learning Vim on the job, the choice is either use expedient shortcuts or go back to TextMate. Better to start this way and gradually work towards the bare metal.

I suspect the reason he was having a hard time, was because he was insisting on replicating some existing workflow structured around other tools.

If you just want to use vim as a simple editor, it doesn't seem very hard. I mean, I don't really remember a difficult learning curve.

I still only use vim that way. I let my window manager handle the complex stuff, like how to arrange windows and then how to have multiple sets of window arrangements with different things in them (i.e. tabs).

Vim only seems hard because it's so profoundly different. If you persist for even one or two evenings, I'm pretty confident most Hacker News readers are easily sharp enough to be back up to their old speed in Notepad-type editors, and from there you only get faster.

You don't have to learn it at work either. I find it's helpful to make Vim the only text editor you ever use with a dark background. The visual cue seems enough to put you in "Vim mode" so you press i before you start writing. When the background is white in your whizbang C# IDE or a Hacker News comment box, you just use your old editing habits.

My love affair with Vim started after 15 minutes in `vimtutor` when the internet went out one day. o, O, A, I, dd, p, and a couple other commands were enough for me to be see the light and be productive. Everyone needs to give vimtutor a fair shot.

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